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The Big Holby City Thread (Part 5)


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Old 02-12-2015, 16:54
skteosk
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I should probably rewatch the scenes to see if there's any nuances I missed or anything I remember wrong. Fran's larger than life around Sacha, Essie and Dominic because she knows she can get away with it, but tends to tone it down around Guy. I thought she was polite if a bit nervous around Jac to start with, then Jac, shall we say, made it clear she wasn't interested in being friends, and Fran seemed to start to resent her. There may have been a bit of jealousy in her realisation Guy had known Jac well too.

She probably knows Jac by reputation although I’m not sure who would have been in her ear. Sacha’s unlikely to spread horror stories about Jac (unless he was getting his own back?) and she didn’t seem to have spoken to Guy about her. I suppose Essie or Dominic might have wound her up about it, even though I don’t think either of them have had much personal contact with Jac.
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Old 02-12-2015, 20:35
kitkat1971
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It's not just this week, it was last Tuesday when they passed in the corridor with Jac not noticing, or at least acknowledging Fran but Fran doing a bit of a double take and then asking Adele if that was Jac Naylor.

As you say, there isnk( really anybody on Kellar (where Fran has worked as far as we've seen) that would slag Jac off or make Fran be scared, and she isn't somebody that seems easily scared anyway. Sacha might fall out with jac but they are really good friends and haven't had any issues since the Negligence case against chriSsue which was 5 years ago now. Dominic and Essie have never shared screen time with her, let alone bad feeling. Ric respects her as a Surgeon and hasn't been around anyway. Serena actually seems to quite like her. Digby, raf and fletch also have no reaso to diss her. So where within her colleagues would it have come from?

Except her knowing that she was an ex of guys but apparently that was news this week, after she'd already taken an immediate dislike, almost fear of her.
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Old 03-12-2015, 10:05
Little Star
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It's not just this week, it was last Tuesday when they passed in the corridor with Jac not noticing, or at least acknowledging Fran but Fran doing a bit of a double take and then asking Adele if that was Jac Naylor.
Yes, I thought that scene last week was very pointed. There was a clear reaction from
Fran, indicating that Jac was someone who was significant to her. I think that there has to be some connection between them from the past, as there are no real links there which would cause her to be particularly concerned with Jac.
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Old 08-12-2015, 20:53
DancesWithKats
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Is it possible that Jac has a half sister (Fran), that she knows nothing about?

Too much of a stretch?
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Old 08-12-2015, 21:13
VGKid
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The mention of Fran's mother dying - half-sister seems unlikely (usually its a shared mother in tv), (and see Spoiler 1) but it's quite likely that Jac and Fran have history. Perhaps they were in care together?

Spoiler


Theory:
Spoiler


I must admit, I like the twist of Fran and Jac. It's not just simply Jac vs a nurse, but it's actually much more complex.
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Old 08-12-2015, 22:55
kitkat1971
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Spoiler


I haven't seen tonight's yet so the above is pure speculation based on the winter trailers and teasers for the Christmas episodes plus Jac's history as we know it thus far.
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Old 08-12-2015, 23:09
Little Star
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I had predicted last week that Fran was either a secret half sister of Jac's, or that Jac had been responsible for the loss of someone close to Fran.

Following tonight's episode, I am moving closer to the latter. I had previously thought that Fran might have lost a child, but given what we've just found out about Fran's mother dying when she was young, I'm wondering if Jac could have been connected to that in some way. Perhaps Fran's mother was Jac's foster mum. Or possibly Jac and Fran have the same father and Jac's existence pushed Fran's mother over the edge.

Them being in care together and Jac bullying her is a possibility, but I think it could well be something even more complex than that.
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Old 08-12-2015, 23:27
kitkat1971
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I'm halfway through now and have got to the bit where we are told Fran's mother died when she was 5 in 1978. Meaning Fran was born in 1973 so unless they are going back to Jac's original birth date or 1971, she can't be younger than Jac. The more recent birthdate given (38 in Sept 2012) indicated a 1974 birthdate so jac is actually younger than Fran. However, it does mean that Fran's Mum couldn't have had anything to do with Jac, at least not as a foster Mother unless they are going to change how old she was when Paula dumped her (12).

Paula did indicate that Jac's father was married and had other children but given that Jac never met him it would seem incredibly cruel to hate her for any consequences of her existence.

I really think they were in Care together and either Jac bullied her (or somebody very close to her) or did (or didn't do) something that allowed somebody else in Authority to abuse Fran - pure speculation, allegations were made that this person had abused jac (it has previously been indicated that jac was raped when young) but she refused to confirm or testify, just preferring to internalize it as she does, which meant he was free to go on to abuse somebody else - Fran?
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Old 09-12-2015, 08:26
Collins1965
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Jac really could have been more understanding with that patient - it was clear he had issues of some kind. Fran is a good nurse but she is blinkered when it come to Jac. Guy wanted nothing to do with her hysterics!

Given that Fran's mother died when she was young I'm back to thinking they were in care together and Jac just does not remember her.
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Old 09-12-2015, 09:39
Little Star
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Jac really could have been more understanding with that patient - it was clear he had issues of some kind. Fran is a good nurse but she is blinkered when it come to Jac. Guy wanted nothing to do with her hysterics!
Agreed on all points Collins. Regardless of whatever prior connection they have, I could understand why Fran was annoyed with Jac. She really made no effort whatsoever with that patient and was rude from the outset. Fran actually came across really well in her dealings with the patient, but anytime she interacted with Jac she was hysterical.

At the same time, I think that Guy could have been a little more supportive, given that she was obviously distressed. Instead he just wanted nothing to do with her. I am really hoping that they are not going to go back down the avenue of Jac and Self.

I had thought at the outset that Fran was a dark character, but now I think she will turn out to be good natured but incredibly troubled. All of the excess partying at the start will probably turn out to be a cover up to mask her suffering.
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Old 09-12-2015, 10:03
desperate house
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Sory, but I have absolutely no sympathy for Fran, loud mouthed and bombastic, she thre a strop because she couldn't get her own way with Jac.

Yes, Jac was abrupt and unfeeling with the awkward patient, but come one, this is the NHS in real life he would have been hoiked out of the door in no time if he refused surgery. So he had autism, which had been undisclosed for how many years? Surely his GP would have informed the hospitasl of his condition. Silly writing.

I cannot stand Fran, a gobby bully, look how she speaks to Sacha and backed up by that sly smug Essie, they make a right pair. Horrible both of them.

Good pint of last night was Digby and Dom and DiLuca and Fletchl trying to pair Cara up with that patient.. Biggest bonus of all no Efanga sisters, tiresome pair especially saint Adele and unfortunately, they are writing Mo the same way. She used to be a good character but not lately..

Best bit? when Fran threw herself at Selfie and he didn't respond. Is this why she is so diabolical, because she is sleeping with Self? If so, it won't last long, like all consultants they go through nursing staff like a dose of salts.

Honsetly, the way that nursesspeak to consultants on Holby is beyond parody, as if this would be allowed in any hosptal except Holby.
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Old 09-12-2015, 10:05
miaow_sponge
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Jesse was in that operation 20 years ago and said he'd just been appointed registrar. How old is he then as I would have thought 20 years ago he would not have had enough training to be registrar. I'm putting him in his early 40s!
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Old 09-12-2015, 10:32
Grumpy_Alan
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At last, an episode with out the awful Adele.

Poorly written, poorly portrayed, - an extended leave of absence would be a good thing for that character and the program.
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Old 09-12-2015, 10:34
bebo83
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Jesse was in that operation 20 years ago and said he'd just been appointed registrar. How old is he then as I would have thought 20 years ago he would not have had enough training to be registrar. I'm putting him in his early 40s!
I am sure he is nearer 50. They did mention it when Adele was talking about his age. Also, Zosia referred to him as Uncle Jesse.
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Old 09-12-2015, 10:45
smfan123
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I'm just watching now have a doctor and ward manager really got nothing better to do than try and matchmake a nurse and one of her patients? i didn't watch for few weeks but last I heard of fletch he was leaving

I wasn't sure about Fran at first but am enjoying watching her take on Jac
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Old 09-12-2015, 10:57
skteosk
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I think Fran was good-intentioned where the patient was concerned and actually did help him. Jac's bedside manner isn't good but Fran is taking it too far by turning it into a personal crusade, Jac can't go chasing after every patient that discharges themselves against advice. There was so obviously something wrong with the guy that I'm amazed it took Jac and Fran so long to notice, and as others have said there really should have been something in his notes. (Daniel Hill there, now on three roles in Holby and three in Casualty, including one just last year.) I don't really think there needs to be a personal history between Jac and Fran, it just needs to be about Fran identifying Jac with people from her past, but I guess we'll see.

So we get the not-so-subtle comparison between Jesse and the likes of Henrik and Jac, with Henrik appreciating the value of being able to connect personally with patients. What was the deal with his patient having a different surname from her mother though? It seemed to be there to delay Jesse twigging the family connection, but it implies a husband so where was he and why wasn't he next of kin? Or was she using her father's name, in which case where was he? (The issue gets dismissed with "Divorced", but that doesn't mean he doesn't get a say.)

Arthur's right: People really do need to treat him with respect, not close a curtain in his face when he tries to point out how ill-advised their matchmaking is. The fact that Jed's in prison probably needed more than a throwaway remark but what-ho.
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Old 09-12-2015, 13:07
desperate house
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Forgot to add in my previous post the ludicrous fact that both Jesse and the accident girls mother recognised each other after 20 years, come on, 20 years and you remember one patient that died? Was this Jesse's only death in the 20 years in between and would the mother remember him?

I used to work in the NHS and I doubt I would recognise any doctor or surgeon that I worked for 20 years ago. Hell, I have to look in the mirror every morning to remind myself who [b]IB] am!
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Old 09-12-2015, 13:11
kitkat1971
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I am sure he is nearer 50. They did mention it when Adele was talking about his age. Also, Zosia referred to him as Uncle Jesse.
Yes I agree. He has very much been portrayed as a contemporary of Self for most if not all their careers and personally with him having known Zosia since she was tiny and referred to as 'Uncle' Jesse and Self must be 50ish. I can easily believe Jesse was knocking 30 20 years ago and you can make Registrar at 25/26 if you pass all exams/rotations first time so he could easily have had several years experience by then.

Not that it is always an indicator (they often cast younger actors for older roles like Rosie Marcel, Luke Roberts and Patricia Potter or older for younger like Camilla Afwedson) but don Gillet is 48.
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Old 09-12-2015, 13:36
kitkat1971
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Forgot to add in my previous post the ludicrous fact that both Jesse and the accident girls mother recognised each other after 20 years, come on, 20 years and you remember one patient that died? Was this Jesse's only death in the 20 years in between and would the mother remember him?

I used to work in the NHS and I doubt I would recognise any doctor or surgeon that I worked for 20 years ago. Hell, I have to look in the mirror every morning to remind myself who [b]IB] am!
Well this case is supposed to have made such an impact on Jesse that he gave up surgery which must have been a HUGE life changing decision plus didn't they imply there was a complaint or enquiry so I can believe it would stick in his memory. Generally though, i agree, Doctors can't possibly remember most of their Patients (and relatives). They did a nice thing about that with Ric a few years ago - a woman he didn't recognise going on about how he had changed her life when he persuaded her to have, and then performed Surgery. She remembered him as it had been such a pivotal point in her life but he didn't remember her because she was just one of hundreds, if not thousands of Patients with routine cases but didn't want to hurt her feelings.

Jac and her Patient. No, her bedside manner was poor and it wouldn't kill her to try and be a bit nicer (she can do it when she tries) and whilst not Psych, i'm sure she has had enough core training and experience to recognise indicators and refer to Psych.

But, beyond that, she is right. Examining, let alond operating on a Patient without consent is GBH and she (or any other surgeon) does not have the time to spend ages persuading a Patient to give consent let alone chase after them if they wish to discharge themselves. Plus, it could ethically be seen as applying pressure to a vulnerable person. As Hansenn said, Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

Often if you have to postpone/cancel more than one appointment with the NHS (things like CBT for example) your sessions end and you have to be referred again - no matter what the reason for non attendance. Why would surgery be any different? Also, i know that when my Mother was very sick and an InPoatient they advised Physiotherapy. Because shhe didn't co-operate (she didn't really understand how important it was as she was in early stages of Dementia and had always hated sports/exercises) she was deemed incapable of following the programme and it was withdrawn after ONE 5 minute consultation. This meant she was is a Hospital bed when discharged home and bed bound for the rest of her life. We were actually appealing it via our GP but she died before we got another referral with the community Physio.

Incredibly harsh to dismiss (and condemn) people like that but it is the realuty of the cash strapped NHS. They won't spend time and money helping people who seem to be utterly unwilling to help themselves or co-operate and somebody refusing an operation because they'll miss a tv programme would appear to come in that category.

I assume the complaint will be dismissed very quickly as being ridiculous as jac was under no obligation to molly coddle him and isn't a Psych but it might mean them reviewing her general 'style'.

Of course Fran might just be identifying Jac with somebody from her past but I really don't think so. The recognition 2 weeks ago was to instant. They just passed in the corridor, Fran hadn't seen Jac speak to anybody or be nasty, it was just visual and she immediately looked back at her and confirmed her name. And it can't be co-incidence that they both lost (one way or another) their Mum's when children and are about the same age.

I still say that something happened where Fran felt Jac 'turned her back' on her, perceiving her to be 'weak' when Fran needed, and expected help. And i really think it is going to be somebody in authority, a foster parent or care worker being sexually abusive.
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Old 09-12-2015, 14:27
miaow_sponge
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Thank you. I think he looks younger than 50ish but obviously not everyone does.

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Old 09-12-2015, 14:53
scone
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Sory, but I have absolutely no sympathy for Fran, loud mouthed and bombastic, she thre a strop because she couldn't get her own way with Jac.

Yes, Jac was abrupt and unfeeling with the awkward patient, but come one, this is the NHS in real life he would have been hoiked out of the door in no time if he refused surgery. So he had autism, which had been undisclosed for how many years? Surely his GP would have informed the hospitasl of his condition. Silly writing.

I cannot stand Fran, a gobby bully, look how she speaks to Sacha and backed up by that sly smug Essie, they make a right pair. Horrible both of them.

Good pint of last night was Digby and Dom and DiLuca and Fletchl trying to pair Cara up with that patient.. Biggest bonus of all no Efanga sisters, tiresome pair especially saint Adele and unfortunately, they are writing Mo the same way. She used to be a good character but not lately..

Best bit? when Fran threw herself at Selfie and he didn't respond. Is this why she is so diabolical, because she is sleeping with Self? If so, it won't last long, like all consultants they go through nursing staff like a dose of salts.

Honsetly, the way that nursesspeak to consultants on Holby is beyond parody, as if this would be allowed in any hosptal except Holby.
I love everything you say haha.

I laughed when she went to Self and he just brushed her off him and then she screamed at everyone who was looking. the woman seems unhinged and I certainly wouldn't want her lancing any boils I could grow.

I doubt Jac bullied her in care, I doubt they are related, it's probably to do with autism or another disability and someone else being negligent in Fran's past, nothing at all to do with Jac personally.

I didn't like her when she first arrived and still don't, she is over familiar and I don't think that's right in any working environment, it grates after a while.
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Old 09-12-2015, 14:57
Little Star
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Thank you. I think he looks younger than 50ish but obviously not everyone does.

I was also quite confused about this at the outset, as I thought (and still think) that Jesse looks and seems a lot younger than Self. I would have guessed that he was in his early forties, but clearly they intend him to be late 40s to early 50s.
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:29
desperate house
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I love everything you say haha.

I laughed when she went to Self and he just brushed her off him and then she screamed at everyone who was looking. the woman seems unhinged and I certainly wouldn't want her lancing any boils I could grow.

I doubt Jac bullied her in care, I doubt they are related, it's probably to do with autism or another disability and someone else being negligent in Fran's past, nothing at all to do with Jac personally.

I didn't like her when she first arrived and still don't, she is over familiar and I don't think that's right in any working environment, it grates after a while.


Thank you

BIB I hated her from the moment she arrived, she had never met Sacha but immediately started rubbishing him to his face and trying to cause strife between him and the odious Essie. Wish this pair of cackling witches and the Efanga sisters would just bl**dy transfer to St James and be done with it.
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Old 10-12-2015, 12:38
skteosk
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It was mentioned here that Fran has an interest in cardiothoracics, so makes sense that she'd know Jac by sight even if she's never met her before. Again, it did seem like she wanted to be friendly with Jac but Jac wasn't interested.
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Old 10-12-2015, 14:29
Little Star
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On Carli Norris' Twitter feed she has retweeted a comment which states 'Does anyone else think that Fran sounds like Jac?' I am wondering whether this could be a hint that they are related. I still think that the half sister idea could be a possibility. The only thing throwing me off has been the indication of a similar storyline for Serena.

I definitely think that Fran's reaction to Jac is more than just recognising her on a work basis. I actually think that the reference to her interest in cardiothoracics may have been an indication of an obsession with Jac, but I could be wrong about that.
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