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The Big Holby City Thread (Part 5)
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george.millman
20-03-2016
Originally Posted by Little Star:
“Just to clarify, I do know who Jemma Regrave is and I've seen her in many other roles. I generally find her to be an excellent actress, but this was just my opinion based on the characterisation of Bernie on the last two Tuesdays on Holby. It is early days yet, though, and it could well be a conscious acting decision. I would never dismiss her acting credentials as a whole based on a role she has only been in for several weeks. Her record speaks for itself.

Mind you, if I didn't find acting to be great in a particular role, I really don't think there is any difference in having that opinion merely because an actress comes from a theatrical dynasty rather than if they were a relative unknown. As kitkat pointed out, so much of it is subjective anyway. I know some on here think that Petra Letang is terrible and regularly say so. I actually don't think that she is that bad. I think it is more a case of the writing being ridiculous when it comes to Adele.”

With Adele, I think it's both. I do acknowledge that the writers have not done Petra Letang any favours with her material and I reserved judgement on her as an actor for quite a while, but I feel like she could deliver her lines with a less flat voice and bring a bit more emotion to the manner in which she plays it. There have been other characters in the past that I have thought the writing absolutely stank for, but I appreciated their actors.
shya100
22-03-2016
Spoiler
isn't all this with Arthur very like Tara and Ollie...cancer, presumably get married, he dies?
Little Star
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by shya100:
“
Spoiler
isn't all this with Arthur very like Tara and Ollie...cancer, presumably get married, he dies?
”

Yes there are very definite similarities. Obviously, with the main exception being that he's a much more long serving character who wasn't created for that purpose.

If the predictions are correct it kind of makes a little more sense now as to why pairing Morven and Arthur happened so quickly. It really did seem to come from nowhere and it seemed strange for them to resolve two 'will they/won't they' plots at the same time. Generally they would have dragged it out for much longer.

Also, we've had so many random scenes with the trio expressing their affection for each other lately and that kind of makes sense in that context too. Particularly the one from two weeks ago, where the last scene of the episode was in their flat and had no particular connection to the rest of that episode at all.
kitkat1971
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by shya100:
“
Spoiler
isn't all this with Arthur very like Tara and Ollie...cancer, presumably get married, he dies?
”

Yes, very similar and I'mm pretty sure that is exactly the way it will go.
londongirlGre
22-03-2016
I don't like Mo's hairstyle.
Little Star
22-03-2016
I have no doubt that Sir Dennis is going to turn out to be a sinister character and that Mo will be proven right in the end. However, she really didn't cover herself in glory this week. She was clearly looking for fault. Also, it was rather unprofessional to take tea and biscuits out in front of a patient and there was no need to drag Ollie and costs into her complaint about Sir Dennis. Then when she did hear about his son she expressed no sympathy whatsoever.

Ric treated Jesse terribly. He was only trying to help!

Ending made me even more convinced re Digby.
george.millman
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by Little Star:
“I have no doubt that Sir Dennis is going to turn out to be a sinister character and that Mo will be proven right in the end. However, she really didn't cover herself in glory this week. She was clearly looking for fault. Also, it was rather unprofessional to take tea and biscuits out in front of a patient and there was no need to drag Ollie and costs into her complaint about Sir Dennis. Then when she did hear about his son she expressed no sympathy whatsoever.

Ric treated Jesse terribly. He was only trying to help!

Ending made me even more convinced re Digby.”

The thing is, her points about Sir Dennis weren't totally invalid. Her problem is that she made it so personal that any good points she may have had to start with got lost in all the noise. If she'd remained more professional about things, Jac would probably have taken her complaints more seriously.
k9fan
22-03-2016
I love Digby.
Little Star
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by george.millman:
“The thing is, her points about Sir Dennis weren't totally invalid. Her problem is that she made it so personal that any good points she may have had to start with got lost in all the noise. If she'd remained more professional about things, Jac would probably have taken her complaints more seriously.”

Yes, her complaints were all valid. She just behaved too personally and unprofessionally for them to be taken seriously. It might have been better if we'd seen Sir Dennis lull her into a false sense of security for a few episodes with the viewers aware that he was sinister, before Mo picked up on it. It's a tad contrived that she initially had sour grapes over him getting the consultants job and then straight away it turns out that she was right the whole time.
george.millman
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by Little Star:
“Yes, her complaints were all valid. She just behaved too personally and unprofessionally for them to be taken seriously. It might have been better if we'd seen Sir Dennis lull her into a false sense of security for a few episodes with the viewers aware that he was sinister, before Mo picked up on it. It's a tad contrived that she initially had sour grapes over him getting the consultants job and then straight away it turns out that she was right the whole time.”

Sir Dennis surely can't be that bad. After all, he taught Jac in the past, and even if his skills have got rusty since then, if he's sinister now he would have been sinister then. Jac's a very good judge of character.
Nosaer
23-03-2016
Originally Posted by george.millman:
“Sir Dennis surely can't be that bad. After all, he taught Jac in the past, and even if his skills have got rusty since then, if he's sinister now he would have been sinister then. Jac's a very good judge of character.”

The implication is that he is a racist, this is not necessarily something that would have been revealed to Jac.
I have to say that I found Chizzy's portrayal of the rage and frustration upon Mo encountering this fantastic.
Hit_The_North
23-03-2016
Originally Posted by Nosaer:
“The implication is that he is a racist, this is not necessarily something that would have been revealed to Jac.
I have to say that I found Chizzy's portrayal of the rage and frustration upon Mo encountering this fantastic.”

He's a revolting man, and an insidious racist, treating Mo like a skivvy and giving her ZERO respect.
george.millman
23-03-2016
Originally Posted by Nosaer:
“The implication is that he is a racist, this is not necessarily something that would have been revealed to Jac.
I have to say that I found Chizzy's portrayal of the rage and frustration upon Mo encountering this fantastic.”

Chizzy's portrayal of it was fantastic, undoubtedly, and if she turns out to be right about him being a racist, I will give Mo fair credit. The problem is, I don't think the examples she gave about Ollie and Zosia and Hanssen proved anything. If he'd come up against them and Mo on a similar case and treated Mo thoroughly differently then fair point, but that hasn't happened. Having said that, my mum pointed out to me later his comments about women in Zimbabwe having teeth; if Mo had brought that up when confronting him I'd be more inclined to agree with her than I am.

You make a good point that if he's racist, that's not necessarily something that would have been obvious to Jac. As a white male, it is easy to forget the levels of prejudice that people still face in this country and I don't want to cheapen that, I just feel that the wrong examples were given for anything to be proved.
k9fan
23-03-2016
Originally Posted by george.millman:
“Chizzy's portrayal of it was fantastic, undoubtedly, and if she turns out to be right about him being a racist, I will give Mo fair credit. The problem is, I don't think the examples she gave about Ollie and Zosia and Hanssen proved anything. If he'd come up against them and Mo on a similar case and treated Mo thoroughly differently then fair point, but that hasn't happened. Having said that, my mum pointed out to me later his comments about women in Zimbabwe having teeth; if Mo had brought that up when confronting him I'd be more inclined to agree with her than I am.

You make a good point that if he's racist, that's not necessarily something that would have been obvious to Jac. As a white male, it is easy to forget the levels of prejudice that people still face in this country and I don't want to cheapen that, I just feel that the wrong examples were given for anything to be proved.”

It's a pity that Mo didn't ask him, in front of Jac, what he meant by saying that she came from aggressive stock. However, I should imagine that Mo might have been feeling quite bewildered by his attitude towards her that, maybe, she had not encountered before now.
george.millman
23-03-2016
Originally Posted by k9fan:
“It's a pity that Mo didn't ask him, in front of Jac, what he meant by saying that she came from aggressive stock. However, I should imagine that Mo might have been feeling quite bewildered by his attitude towards her that, maybe, she had not encountered before now.”

Yes, that would have been great!

The thing is that Mo was sulking about not getting the position herself before it was implied that he was racist, so anything she says now is just going to look like sour grapes. But fortunately there are many well-respected black people working at the hospital, so if there are any attitude problems concerning race, I'm sure they'll be flagged up soon enough.
george.millman
23-03-2016
Something I've wondered for a while... Zosia's surname being March is a bit odd, isn't it?

We know that she took her mother's maiden name instead of Self because of fallouts with Guy. However, we also know that she's half-Polish; March does not sound very Polish, and I've looked it up on the Internet without finding any connections with Poland to that name at all.

Of course, it's entirely possible, if Anja herself was half-English or something similar, that she had an English surname. I just find it a bit strange, given that they obviously did quite a lot of planning into Zosia's background and deciding on her Polish ancestry etc (Camilla Arfwedson herself being half-Swedish) that they didn't give her a more Polish-sounding name. Are there any reasons for that?
kitkat1971
23-03-2016
Originally Posted by Nosaer:
“The implication is that he is a racist, this is not necessarily something that would have been revealed to Jac.
I have to say that I found Chizzy's portrayal of the rage and frustration upon Mo encountering this fantastic.”

I haven't seen yesterday's properly yet but I gather there are two problems - that he hasn't been working 'on the ground' for some years so has got rusty (something I suggested mught be the case in his first episode) and that he is racist.

Again, as I mentioned in his first episode his training of Jac is irrelevant here as clearly, from what we're told n his first episode, he was an excellent surgeon so Jac would have seen that when they worked to gether - but that was 15 years ago and people do lose skills (and especially co-ordination and 'courage') as they age, especially if they aren't utilising their skills reguarly. As a more trivial example nut to do with hands so I'll state it, i used to be a very, very good pianist. Winning County competitions good. But now I'm not as it has been several years where i have barely played and whilst i could probably rehone if I spent hours practicing each day, it would be take months and I wouldn't be using a real person who could die if i made a mistake unlike a Senior surgeon.

Many racists are very secretive about it, appearing friendly whilst undermining or any saying things when on their own with the person. Since Jac is White, it is more than possible that she never witnessed anything and any other Juniors might have been so scared of things getting worse if they rocked the boat they kept quiet. It still happens now but I think people are more aware and willing to speak up now but even in the 25 years or so i've been working, attitudes have changed. I think with racism and sexism there ysed to be more of an attitude that that is just 'how it is' and the complainer would be the one that suffered, getting a reputation for 'being difficult' or 'not being able to take a joke' and therefore black listed (no pun intended) so they put up with it.

So, he might always have been like this but it was more common in his circles when he was younger (the actor is nearly 70 so i assume the character is meant to be too) or people just didn't know about it.
kitkat1971
23-03-2016
Originally Posted by george.millman:
“Something I've wondered for a while... Zosia's surname being March is a bit odd, isn't it?

We know that she took her mother's maiden name instead of Self because of fallouts with Guy. However, we also know that she's half-Polish; March does not sound very Polish, and I've looked it up on the Internet without finding any connections with Poland to that name at all.

Of course, it's entirely possible, if Anja herself was half-English or something similar, that she had an English surname. I just find it a bit strange, given that they obviously did quite a lot of planning into Zosia's background and deciding on her Polish ancestry etc (Camilla Arfwedson herself being half-Swedish) that they didn't give her a more Polish-sounding name. Are there any reasons for that?”

Zosia's mother family (i assume Zosia grandfather) anglicized their name after moving to England when the Nazis invaded Poland. That was quite a common thing to do as the idea was that they would integrate into their new society better.

It was mentioned in Essie's first episodes when Zosia is talking to her grandfather who turned out to be a Nazi. I think she even states what the Polish name was.
kitkat1971
23-03-2016
Probably more likely Zosia's great grandfather thinking about the dates.

Which would be the other explanation as you say. The Polish connection might have been Zosia grandmother. Ie, her great grandfather had a Polish name but his daughter married an English man so it was changed at that point, with their daughter being Anya.

But as mentioned, they have established they actuAlly changed it. Like many others, the most famous of course being the Royal family during WW1.
george.millman
23-03-2016
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“Zosia's mother family (i assume Zosia grandfather) anglicized their name after moving to England when the Nazis invaded Poland. That was quite a common thing to do as the idea was that they would integrate into their new society better.

It was mentioned in Essie's first episodes when Zosia is talking to her grandfather who turned out to be a Nazi. I think she even states what the Polish name was.”

Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“Probably more likely Zosia's great grandfather thinking about the dates.

Which would be the other explanation as you say. The Polish connection might have been Zosia grandmother. Ie, her great grandfather had a Polish name but his daughter married an English man so it was changed at that point, with their daughter being Anya.

But as mentioned, they have established they actuAlly changed it. Like many others, the most famous of course being the Royal family during WW1.”

I get it. Good explanation
millysshaw
23-03-2016
Enjoyed last nights episode. Think Movern and Digby are sweet together. Think the new consultant that piped Mo to the post, is sneaky and was trying to wind Mo up. She needs to play the long game with him, while watching her own back. Where is the adorable Mr T. That is just what Mo needs a night in shining armour to come and rescue her from the wicked doctor. Be clever Mo don't let him catch you out.
george.millman
23-03-2016
Originally Posted by millysshaw:
“Enjoyed last nights episode. Think Movern and Digby are sweet together. Think the new consultant that piped Mo to the post, is sneaky and was trying to wind Mo up. She needs to play the long game with him, while watching her own back. Where is the adorable Mr T. That is just what Mo needs a night in shining armour to come and rescue her from the wicked doctor. Be clever Mo don't let him catch you out.”

What exactly would Derwood have done to help? He's a gynaecologist, nothing to do with the case they were working on.
millysshaw
23-03-2016
Originally Posted by george.millman:
“What exactly would Derwood have done to help? He's a gynaecologist, nothing to do with the case they were working on.”

Sorry George nothing to do with the case. Just be there for support, like you would for your friends. But in Holby land they seem to like to leave them on there own to cope. Like when Jac split with Johny and he went off with Bonnie. Everyone supported Johnny not even Sacha. So i hope they do not do the same with Mo with everyone thinking that this new Guy is brillant and it is just Mo with sour grapes. Even her friends.
DJW13
23-03-2016
I would have thought that Jac should have known that Dennis hadn't performed surgery for 5 years? Given that it appeared to be news to them all, surely he should have done some sort of re-training before being allowed to exercise his rusty skills on real live patients?
kitkat1971
23-03-2016
Originally Posted by DJW13:
“I would have thought that Jac should have known that Dennis hadn't performed surgery for 5 years? Given that it appeared to be news to them all, surely he should have done some sort of re-training before being allowed to exercise his rusty skills on real live patients?”

Yes, it seems very odd that it wouldn'( be on his resume which the interviewing panel would have seen. Unless we're meant to believe they just offered it to him without interviewing him or checking references due to his reputation. But if he's that we'll known, surely people like Jac and Hansenn would know he hasn't been working for 5 years.

I'm sure that Surgeons need to operate frequently or undergo a period of retraining or at least review for their license but they always ignore things like that in Holby.
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