3 2G Fallback

rasseru16 · 08-04-2015, 11:24

Quote:

I didn't think Three's 2G backup which was an old Orange contract was related only to old Orange masts, I thought it worked anywhere Three wanted it active based on the 'EE' network.

I have not once seen 3 roam onto EE/T-Mobile's 2G network code though so it is just the Orange side of the EE 2G network if roaming still applies to a certain area.

lost boy · 08-04-2015, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasseru16

Bizarre because they now have 4G on EE in Great Yarmouth yet you can still roam onto those remaining Orange 2G masts with a 3 sim card despite there being good 3G coverage from 3

Indeed.

Apparently they're still on for capacity rather than coverage, due to Three's 3G in the area being somewhat congested. That's the answer I got when I asked before anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasseru16

I have not once seen 3 roam onto EE/T-Mobile's 2G network code though so it is just the Orange side of the EE 2G network if roaming still applies to a certain area.

Same experience here, it's just the Orange side that's used. The EE/T-Mobile side of the 2G network isn't used for Three's 2G fallback roaming.

As I understand it, once EE have added their 4G to an area, the Orange 234-33 code goes off, leaving just T-Mobile/EE's 234-30 code offering 2G/3G/4G as available (2G/3G to Orange/T-Mobile customers, 2G/3G/4G to EE customers). This means that the Three 2G fallback in the area, which would use the Orange side, goes off at the same time.

Gigabit · 08-04-2015, 20:15

Yup around here my Three phone will only roam onto a distant Orange mast if I force 2G. Really poor signal so I assume it must be an old mast somewhere.

plymouthbloke1974 · 08-04-2015, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueacid

The thing I never had the chance to test for myself was: suppose I started in a location where Three falls back to 2g and make a voice call while traveling toward an area where the 2g fallback is forbidden?

My assumption is that the call would drop - my phone wouldn't be able to jump to the Three 3g network and take the call with it, nor could it connect to the forbidden 2g mast... is this assumption the case?

Perhaps then in some areas Three are keen to avoid this scenario unfolding: calls starting which will then cut off, rather than just avoiding the call in the first place?

To answer your question: Your call would hand over as normal to the forbidden 2G site and the call would continue until it had ended. You would then be booted off the 2G site.

lightspeed2398 · 08-04-2015, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974

To answer your question: Your call would hand over as normal to the forbidden 2G site and the call would continue until it had ended. You would then be booted off the 2G site.

What if that's an area that's been brought into MBNL and has no Orange transmitter?

jchamier · 08-04-2015, 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

What if that's an area that's been brought into MBNL and has no Orange transmitter?

A proper MBNL site would have both EE (ex T-mobile) and Three 3G natively and shared as that is what MBNL was formed to do. An MBNL site will have EE 2G and will eventually have 4G from each network but separately.

lightspeed2398 · 08-04-2015, 23:12

Perhaps I'm just confused but here was my line of thinking. Three only roams on to Orange transmitting masts because others are in MBNL. If the next mast after the 2g fallback from Orange is transmitting only a T-Mobile code will it continue on the orange fallback through EE 2g or will it revert to 3 3g.

Hope that makes sense.

jchamier · 08-04-2015, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

Perhaps I'm just confused but here was my line of thinking. Three only roams on to Orange transmitting masts because others are in MBNL. If the next mast after the 2g fallback from Orange is transmitting only a T-Mobile code will it continue on the orange fallback through EE 2g or will it revert to 3 3g.

Hope that makes sense.

I would have thought that Three would set it up to always prefer the Three 3G signal over any fallback 2G. So if you're on an Orange 2G fallback and you come into range of an MBNL mast transmitting Three 3G then the Three 3G signal is the one used.

Three 3G signal will give data, whereas Orange 2G is voice/sms only.

RAN Man · 08-04-2015, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

Perhaps I'm just confused but here was my line of thinking. Three only roams on to Orange transmitting masts because others are in MBNL. If the next mast after the 2g fallback from Orange is transmitting only a T-Mobile code will it continue on the orange fallback through EE 2g or will it revert to 3 3g.

Hope that makes sense.

A Three user is not allowed onto any 2G TMobile/EE (234 30) site, either by handover when in call or in idle. So in the case that you start a call on Orange 2G (234 33), and move out of the covergae area of Orange 2G, the call will drop, even if Tmobile/EE 2G is present.

Technically all EE sites are MBNL sites, as MBNL manage both the Orange (234 33) and TMobile/EE (234 30) sites.

lightspeed2398 · 08-04-2015, 23:25

Think I've got it now, thanks both. I'm a little slow for some reason today!

jchamier · 08-04-2015, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAN Man

A Three user is not allowed onto any 2G TMobile/EE (234 30) site, either by handover when in call or in idle. So in the case that you start a call on Orange 2G (234 33), and move out of the covergae area of Orange 2G, the call will drop, even if Tmobile/EE 2G is present.

Technically all EE sites are MBNL sites, as MBNL manage both the Orange (234 33) and TMobile/EE (234 30) sites.

That explains why Three have been aggressively turning off Orange fall back, if the EE plan is to gradually replace Orange-only sites with T-Mobile/EE sites (with 4G) there wouldn't be any 2G fallback for Three left. Hopefully the Orange to T-Mobile/EE upgrade will be at the same time as a Three upgrade to the same cell site.

plymouthbloke1974 · 08-04-2015, 23:28

RAN Man has it spot on. Also a call will not handover from 2G to 3G in any circumstances

plymouthbloke1974 · 08-04-2015, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchamier

That explains why Three have been aggressively turning off Orange fall back, if the EE plan is to gradually replace Orange-only sites with T-Mobile/EE sites (with 4G) there wouldn't be any 2G fallback for Three left. Hopefully the Orange to T-Mobile/EE upgrade will be at the same time as a Three upgrade to the same cell site.

It's likely that in about a years time Three will have its own 2G network.....

lightspeed2398 · 08-04-2015, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974

It's likely that in about a years time Three will have its own 2G network.....

It'll be interesting to see if three users ever get to go on it. They can't switch it off because of o2 and smartphone penetration and the high number of M2M, but I thought one of the 'principles' of Three was that it was designed to exist without the 'baggage' of the 2g network.

jchamier · 08-04-2015, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974

RAN Man has it spot on. Also a call will not handover from 2G to 3G in any circumstances

Huh, I didn't know that. I guess I've had 3G to 2G handover, but hadn't realised not the other way. Thanks.

moox · 08-04-2015, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

It'll be interesting to see if three users ever get to go on it. They can't switch it off because of o2 and smartphone penetration and the high number of M2M, but I thought one of the 'principles' of Three was that it was designed to exist without the 'baggage' of the 2g network.

Depending on how easy it is to do, they might go for it (even if it isn't integration and is just roaming) - it'll be cheaper than paying EE, and it'll give them some coverage in those super rural areas where O2 900MHz 2G gets through

Plus there's indoor coverage for those people who can get 900MHz 2G/3G but not adequate 2100MHz 3G reception. At least until 800MHz 4G happens

lightspeed2398 · 08-04-2015, 23:40

You make a point. It's fair to criticise o2 for their 3g but on 2g most of the time they're rock solid.

Edit: Although I know some super remote places that only Vodafone reach but when you get that remote you take whatever network you can get.

jchamier · 08-04-2015, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

You make a point. It's fair to criticise o2 for their 3g but on 2g most of the time they're rock solid.

Depends if half-rate codec is actually audible. Most calls I've had over O2 2G have been "can you repeat? Can you call me back from a landline?" etc :-/

lightspeed2398 · 08-04-2015, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchamier

Depends if half-rate codec is actually audible. Most calls I've had over O2 2G have been "can you repeat? Can you call me back from a landline?" etc :-/

Having switched to 3 from o2 2 years ago I know exactly what you mean but when you really need that signal to call somebody then it's good to know you'll have a signal.

jchamier · 09-04-2015, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

Having switched to 3 from o2 2 years ago I know exactly what you mean but when you really need that signal to call somebody then it's good to know you'll have a signal.

TBH my work was with O2 then switched to vodafone, and I've been carrying my Orange (now EE) phone for longer. I can't think of a place where the older networks had signal that I've needed it that I've not on Orange / EE. Seriously. Yes, Orange worked hard to do this, but it showed.

(I've not been to Northern Ireland, but I have been to remote places in Wales and Scotland).

andyukguy · 09-04-2015, 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchamier

TBH my work was with O2 then switched to vodafone, and I've been carrying my Orange (now EE) phone for longer. I can't think of a place where the older networks had signal that I've needed it that I've not on Orange / EE. Seriously. Yes, Orange worked hard to do this, but it showed.

(I've not been to Northern Ireland, but I have been to remote places in Wales and Scotland).

Have you been indoors?

I can't be the only one who struggles with this on EE!

Gigabit · 09-04-2015, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyukguy

Have you been indoors?

I can't be the only one who struggles with this on EE!

I have and the signal indoors on EE just isn't good. Despite 2G being a lower frequency it doesn't appear to work much better indoors.

Compare that to O2 or Vodafone which is consistently better, although not perfect, with a signal good enough to make calls and receive texts.

It's all very well having the UK's best network for data but if you can't even receive a text, you take whatever you can get.

jchamier · 09-04-2015, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyukguy

Have you been indoors?

I can't be the only one who struggles with this on EE!

Its not a problem where I've been, I'm indoors right now in the centre of a large building and have 4 bars 3G and 2 bars 4G, and we have metal in the walls.

It does depend on antenna location for all networks. Here we get such poor Vodafone we've had to install SureSignal devices inside the building - and we are in the middle of a town.

lightspeed2398 · 09-04-2015, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchamier

Its not a problem where I've been, I'm indoors right now in the centre of a large building and have 4 bars 3G and 2 bars 4G, and we have metal in the walls.

It does depend on antenna location for all networks. Here we get such poor Vodafone we've had to install SureSignal devices inside the building - and we are in the middle of a town.

In The Cube in the centre of Birmingham I know that the Vodafone signal inside is so bad that as part of a DfT contract they got a small cell kind of thing.

matty1000kk · 09-04-2015, 14:22

Same here. Since the Orange/T-Mobile merge I can't really think of many places where I've never had a signal indoors. They certainly seemed to have plugged each others coverage gaps to a degree.

I guess everyone's experiences will differ and there will never be a network that works everywhere for everyone.

My biggest gripe with EE is how it clings to weak 3G signal and doesn't switch to a usable 2G Signal. I've had this cause problems for me where a simple flick to 2G only mode (Android) and calls & texts are fine.

08-04-2015, 11:24	#26
rasseru16 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Suffolk, East Anglia Posts: 666	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk I didn't think Three's 2G backup which was an old Orange contract was related only to old Orange masts, I thought it worked anywhere Three wanted it active based on the 'EE' network. I have not once seen 3 roam onto EE/T-Mobile's 2G network code though so it is just the Orange side of the EE 2G network if roaming still applies to a certain area.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-04-2015, 19:08	#27
lost boy Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Norfolkland Posts: 1,787	Quote: Originally Posted by rasseru16 Bizarre because they now have 4G on EE in Great Yarmouth yet you can still roam onto those remaining Orange 2G masts with a 3 sim card despite there being good 3G coverage from 3 Indeed. Apparently they're still on for capacity rather than coverage, due to Three's 3G in the area being somewhat congested. That's the answer I got when I asked before anyway. Quote: Originally Posted by rasseru16 I have not once seen 3 roam onto EE/T-Mobile's 2G network code though so it is just the Orange side of the EE 2G network if roaming still applies to a certain area. Same experience here, it's just the Orange side that's used. The EE/T-Mobile side of the 2G network isn't used for Three's 2G fallback roaming. As I understand it, once EE have added their 4G to an area, the Orange 234-33 code goes off, leaving just T-Mobile/EE's 234-30 code offering 2G/3G/4G as available (2G/3G to Orange/T-Mobile customers, 2G/3G/4G to EE customers). This means that the Three 2G fallback in the area, which would use the Orange side, goes off at the same time.

08-04-2015, 20:15	#28
Gigabit Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2,887	Yup around here my Three phone will only roam onto a distant Orange mast if I force 2G. Really poor signal so I assume it must be an old mast somewhere.

08-04-2015, 21:52	#29
plymouthbloke1974 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Destination: Hard Brexit Posts: 6,368	Quote: Originally Posted by blueacid The thing I never had the chance to test for myself was: suppose I started in a location where Three falls back to 2g and make a voice call while traveling toward an area where the 2g fallback is forbidden? My assumption is that the call would drop - my phone wouldn't be able to jump to the Three 3g network and take the call with it, nor could it connect to the forbidden 2g mast... is this assumption the case? Perhaps then in some areas Three are keen to avoid this scenario unfolding: calls starting which will then cut off, rather than just avoiding the call in the first place? To answer your question: Your call would hand over as normal to the forbidden 2G site and the call would continue until it had ended. You would then be booted off the 2G site.

08-04-2015, 22:06	#30
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	Quote: Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974 To answer your question: Your call would hand over as normal to the forbidden 2G site and the call would continue until it had ended. You would then be booted off the 2G site. What if that's an area that's been brought into MBNL and has no Orange transmitter?

08-04-2015, 23:06	#31
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by lightspeed2398 What if that's an area that's been brought into MBNL and has no Orange transmitter? A proper MBNL site would have both EE (ex T-mobile) and Three 3G natively and shared as that is what MBNL was formed to do. An MBNL site will have EE 2G and will eventually have 4G from each network but separately.

08-04-2015, 23:12	#32
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	Perhaps I'm just confused but here was my line of thinking. Three only roams on to Orange transmitting masts because others are in MBNL. If the next mast after the 2g fallback from Orange is transmitting only a T-Mobile code will it continue on the orange fallback through EE 2g or will it revert to 3 3g. Hope that makes sense.

08-04-2015, 23:19	#33
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by lightspeed2398 Perhaps I'm just confused but here was my line of thinking. Three only roams on to Orange transmitting masts because others are in MBNL. If the next mast after the 2g fallback from Orange is transmitting only a T-Mobile code will it continue on the orange fallback through EE 2g or will it revert to 3 3g. Hope that makes sense. I would have thought that Three would set it up to always prefer the Three 3G signal over any fallback 2G. So if you're on an Orange 2G fallback and you come into range of an MBNL mast transmitting Three 3G then the Three 3G signal is the one used. Three 3G signal will give data, whereas Orange 2G is voice/sms only.

08-04-2015, 23:23	#34
RAN Man Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 249	Quote: Originally Posted by lightspeed2398 Perhaps I'm just confused but here was my line of thinking. Three only roams on to Orange transmitting masts because others are in MBNL. If the next mast after the 2g fallback from Orange is transmitting only a T-Mobile code will it continue on the orange fallback through EE 2g or will it revert to 3 3g. Hope that makes sense. A Three user is not allowed onto any 2G TMobile/EE (234 30) site, either by handover when in call or in idle. So in the case that you start a call on Orange 2G (234 33), and move out of the covergae area of Orange 2G, the call will drop, even if Tmobile/EE 2G is present. Technically all EE sites are MBNL sites, as MBNL manage both the Orange (234 33) and TMobile/EE (234 30) sites.

08-04-2015, 23:25	#35
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	Think I've got it now, thanks both. I'm a little slow for some reason today!

08-04-2015, 23:27	#36
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by RAN Man A Three user is not allowed onto any 2G TMobile/EE (234 30) site, either by handover when in call or in idle. So in the case that you start a call on Orange 2G (234 33), and move out of the covergae area of Orange 2G, the call will drop, even if Tmobile/EE 2G is present. Technically all EE sites are MBNL sites, as MBNL manage both the Orange (234 33) and TMobile/EE (234 30) sites. That explains why Three have been aggressively turning off Orange fall back, if the EE plan is to gradually replace Orange-only sites with T-Mobile/EE sites (with 4G) there wouldn't be any 2G fallback for Three left. Hopefully the Orange to T-Mobile/EE upgrade will be at the same time as a Three upgrade to the same cell site.

08-04-2015, 23:28	#37
plymouthbloke1974 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Destination: Hard Brexit Posts: 6,368	RAN Man has it spot on. Also a call will not handover from 2G to 3G in any circumstances

08-04-2015, 23:29	#38
plymouthbloke1974 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Destination: Hard Brexit Posts: 6,368	Quote: Originally Posted by jchamier That explains why Three have been aggressively turning off Orange fall back, if the EE plan is to gradually replace Orange-only sites with T-Mobile/EE sites (with 4G) there wouldn't be any 2G fallback for Three left. Hopefully the Orange to T-Mobile/EE upgrade will be at the same time as a Three upgrade to the same cell site. It's likely that in about a years time Three will have its own 2G network.....

08-04-2015, 23:31	#39
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	Quote: Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974 It's likely that in about a years time Three will have its own 2G network..... It'll be interesting to see if three users ever get to go on it. They can't switch it off because of o2 and smartphone penetration and the high number of M2M, but I thought one of the 'principles' of Three was that it was designed to exist without the 'baggage' of the 2g network.

08-04-2015, 23:35	#40
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974 RAN Man has it spot on. Also a call will not handover from 2G to 3G in any circumstances Huh, I didn't know that. I guess I've had 3G to 2G handover, but hadn't realised not the other way. Thanks.

08-04-2015, 23:37	#41
moox Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,645	Quote: Originally Posted by lightspeed2398 It'll be interesting to see if three users ever get to go on it. They can't switch it off because of o2 and smartphone penetration and the high number of M2M, but I thought one of the 'principles' of Three was that it was designed to exist without the 'baggage' of the 2g network. Depending on how easy it is to do, they might go for it (even if it isn't integration and is just roaming) - it'll be cheaper than paying EE, and it'll give them some coverage in those super rural areas where O2 900MHz 2G gets through Plus there's indoor coverage for those people who can get 900MHz 2G/3G but not adequate 2100MHz 3G reception. At least until 800MHz 4G happens

08-04-2015, 23:40	#42
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	You make a point. It's fair to criticise o2 for their 3g but on 2g most of the time they're rock solid. Edit: Although I know some super remote places that only Vodafone reach but when you get that remote you take whatever network you can get.

08-04-2015, 23:41	#43
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by lightspeed2398 You make a point. It's fair to criticise o2 for their 3g but on 2g most of the time they're rock solid. Depends if half-rate codec is actually audible. Most calls I've had over O2 2G have been "can you repeat? Can you call me back from a landline?" etc :-/

08-04-2015, 23:45	#44
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	Quote: Originally Posted by jchamier Depends if half-rate codec is actually audible. Most calls I've had over O2 2G have been "can you repeat? Can you call me back from a landline?" etc :-/ Having switched to 3 from o2 2 years ago I know exactly what you mean but when you really need that signal to call somebody then it's good to know you'll have a signal.

09-04-2015, 00:00	#45
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by lightspeed2398 Having switched to 3 from o2 2 years ago I know exactly what you mean but when you really need that signal to call somebody then it's good to know you'll have a signal. TBH my work was with O2 then switched to vodafone, and I've been carrying my Orange (now EE) phone for longer. I can't think of a place where the older networks had signal that I've needed it that I've not on Orange / EE. Seriously. Yes, Orange worked hard to do this, but it showed. (I've not been to Northern Ireland, but I have been to remote places in Wales and Scotland).

09-04-2015, 01:08	#46
andyukguy Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 145	Quote: Originally Posted by jchamier TBH my work was with O2 then switched to vodafone, and I've been carrying my Orange (now EE) phone for longer. I can't think of a place where the older networks had signal that I've needed it that I've not on Orange / EE. Seriously. Yes, Orange worked hard to do this, but it showed. (I've not been to Northern Ireland, but I have been to remote places in Wales and Scotland). Have you been indoors? I can't be the only one who struggles with this on EE!

DS Forums

3 2G Fallback

09-04-2015, 09:45	#47
Gigabit Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2,887	Quote: Originally Posted by andyukguy Have you been indoors? I can't be the only one who struggles with this on EE! I have and the signal indoors on EE just isn't good. Despite 2G being a lower frequency it doesn't appear to work much better indoors. Compare that to O2 or Vodafone which is consistently better, although not perfect, with a signal good enough to make calls and receive texts. It's all very well having the UK's best network for data but if you can't even receive a text, you take whatever you can get.

09-04-2015, 13:26	#48
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by andyukguy Have you been indoors? I can't be the only one who struggles with this on EE! Its not a problem where I've been, I'm indoors right now in the centre of a large building and have 4 bars 3G and 2 bars 4G, and we have metal in the walls. It does depend on antenna location for all networks. Here we get such poor Vodafone we've had to install SureSignal devices inside the building - and we are in the middle of a town.

09-04-2015, 13:32	#49
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	Quote: Originally Posted by jchamier Its not a problem where I've been, I'm indoors right now in the centre of a large building and have 4 bars 3G and 2 bars 4G, and we have metal in the walls. It does depend on antenna location for all networks. Here we get such poor Vodafone we've had to install SureSignal devices inside the building - and we are in the middle of a town. In The Cube in the centre of Birmingham I know that the Vodafone signal inside is so bad that as part of a DfT contract they got a small cell kind of thing.

09-04-2015, 14:22	#50
matty1000kk Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 272	Same here. Since the Orange/T-Mobile merge I can't really think of many places where I've never had a signal indoors. They certainly seemed to have plugged each others coverage gaps to a degree. I guess everyone's experiences will differ and there will never be a network that works everywhere for everyone. My biggest gripe with EE is how it clings to weak 3G signal and doesn't switch to a usable 2G Signal. I've had this cause problems for me where a simple flick to 2G only mode (Android) and calls & texts are fine.