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Another black man shot dead in USA by police officer |
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#326 |
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Do we know whether Slager has been charged with first or second degree murder?
ETA: It's first |
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#327 |
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Join Date: Jul 2014
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Then why didn't his victim get one, and why don't you care?
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#328 |
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If convicted, i don't think it'll be murder, too many loopholes. In particular, regardless of the 8 shots I'm sure a jury will believe that there was no intent to kill. He certainly needs locking up though unless there are factors not recorded on the film that mitigate.
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#329 |
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That will be for the officer to answer to the court, and hoping justice is delivered correctly shouldn't be confused with not caring about the fate of the victim in all this.
The justice system doesn't operate in a vacuum, certainly not when it involves a police officer who the system relies on to investigate themselves for any wrongdoing. Public awareness shapes the outcome, and in the case of these severe conflicts of interest that always acquit the police officer, the scrutiny is a good thing. |
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#330 |
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A decision based solely on the evidence gathered by his friends in the police and presented to the jury by his friend in the district attorney's office. We've seen the same scenario play out countless times before. As far as our justice system is concerned, police are saints who have never done any wrong.
It's not solely up to the jury. If the police and prosecutor don't feel like doing their jobs because they want to protect one of their own, then the jury never sees a reasonable case and their hands are tied. There are more people involved than the jurors, and those other people have vested interests in police not being prosecuted. Just because jurors have delivered a non-guilty verdict does not mean that the system has functioned and dispensed justice. The justice system is not some perfect machine that will just keep running along dispensing perfect justice forever. It needs maintenance and monitoring to keep it functioning. Away from public scrutiny, corruption can and has festered. The only way to keep them honest and make sure they are doing their jobs are to make sure they understand that they won't have jobs if they don't do them. They can't. We all see trials we take an interest in and hope for a certain outcome however the minute we auggest removing all trials that are video based and just go by what is seen is insane. On the subject that the victim never received a trial, nor does any murder victim, that does not mean anyone charged with murder must go straight to jail without a trial. |
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#331 |
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The problem is people are so paranoid now days it's irrelevant what maitenaince is done people will still believe corruption. You have already stated that if the cop gets off with this then it is corrupt and will be riots. How can you make such a statement without hearing all the evidence? How can anyone have a fair trial if such statements are made?
They can't. We all see trials we take an interest in and hope for a certain outcome however the minute we auggest removing all trials that are video based and just go by what is seen is insane. On the subject that the victim never received a trial, nor does any murder victim, that does not mean anyone charged with murder must go straight to jail without a trial. |
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#332 |
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Every cop gets acquitted of murder. Strange coincidence.
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#333 |
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If convicted, i don't think it'll be murder, too many loopholes. In particular, regardless of the 8 shots I'm sure a jury will believe that there was no intent to kill. He certainly needs locking up though unless there are factors not recorded on the film that mitigate.
Although there might be a plea bargain - who knows. |
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#334 |
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I'm not sure you can expect to fire a gun at someone's torso once, let alone eight times, and expect anything other than death. The officer knew, without a shadow of a doubt, what unloading a clip on someone would do.
How many shots were fired That he was handcuffed That he didn't administer first aid These are all present in every police shooting and is what they are trained to do, those will more than likely not be considered when the verdict comes in. For the record I personally think that's stupid, but that's America for you. I do however agree with the original poster that he will be found guilty of manslaughter (or something similar) and not murder. |
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#335 |
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Do you think that if the event hadn't been filmed, there would be a trial?
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#336 |
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This is really worriying, and not just race relations wise, but general police conduct; it blows my mind that the officer planted the taser beside the victim and then lied. I wonder what happens when there is no video.
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#337 |
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They are trained to do that, 3 points that need to be ignored;
How many shots were fired That he was handcuffed That he didn't administer first aid These are all present in every police shooting and is what they are trained to do, those will more than likely not be considered when the verdict comes in. For the record I personally think that's stupid, but that's America for you. I do however agree with the original poster that he will be found guilty of manslaughter (or something similar) and not murder. link Quote:
Degrees of murder in the United States[edit] Slager has been charged with first degree murder. Why should it be downgraded to manslaughter?
States have adopted several different schemes for classifying murders by degree. The most common separates murder into two degrees, and treats voluntary and involuntary manslaughter as separate crimes that do not constitute murder. First-degree murder is any intentional murder that is willful and premeditated with malice aforethought. Felony murder is typically first-degree.[6] The definition of 1st-degree murder is similar under Canadian law. Second-degree murder is an intentional murder with malice aforethought, but is not premeditated or planned in advance.[7] Voluntary manslaughter (also referred to as third-degree murder), sometimes called a crime of passion murder, is any intentional killing that involved no prior intent to kill, and which was committed under such circumstances that would "cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed". Both this and second-degree murder are committed on the spot, but the two differ in the magnitude of the circumstances surrounding the crime. For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second-degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter.[8] Involuntary manslaughter stems from a lack of intention to cause death but involving an intentional, or negligent, act leading to death. A drunk driving-related death is typically involuntary manslaughter (see also vehicular homicide, causing death by dangerous driving, gross negligence manslaughter and causing death by criminal negligence for international equivalents). Note that the "unintentional" element here refers to the lack of intent to bring about the death. All three crimes above feature an intent to kill, whereas involuntary manslaughter is "unintentional", because the killer did not intend for a death to result from their intentional actions. If there is a presence of intention it relates only to the intent to cause a violent act which brings about the death, but not an intention to bring about the death itself.[9] The Model Penal Code classifies homicides differently, without degrees. Under it, murder is any killing committed purposefully and knowingly, manslaughter is any killing committed as a result of recklessness, and negligent homicide is any killing resulting from negligence.[10] |
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#338 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Then why didn't his victim get one, and why don't you care?
Nobody who's murdered gets a "trial". That's kinda what makes it a murder. I assume you'd want those 14,000 people to get some kind of opportunity to explain themselves, right? |
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#339 |
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The "eight times" really is a non-issue people, and shouldn't be used to try and over-villify the shooting, justified or not.
The first shot was calculated murder. The other seven were just to ensure the blood drained more quickly. |
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#340 |
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Unlikely no, hence why I'm thankful police don't carry guns in this country.
"Exceedingly unlikely, hence why I'm thankful that some public spirited citizen did so" |
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#341 |
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He could actually face the death penalty if convicted, as South Carolina is not one of those states which has abolished it.
Although there might be a plea bargain - who knows. And of course there is one almighty mitigating one. The state put the gun into the cop's hand. |
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#342 |
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Slager has been charged with first degree murder. Why should it be downgraded to manslaughter?
And a jury may be given that option. |
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#343 |
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Exactly.
The first shot was calculated murder. The other seven were just to ensure the blood drained more quickly. |
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#344 |
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On what basis do you arrive at that conclusion?
link Slager has been charged with first degree murder. Why should it be downgraded to manslaughter? I mean, when a judge can impose a 30 year sentence for manslaughter (which, theoretically, should be something of a slam-dunk), what's the actual motivation to press for a murder conviction, especially 1st degree? In a case like this the prosecution is going to have a hard time providing proof of intent which may be enough to convince a jury that he isn't guilty of the offence he's been charged with. If, OTOH, they'd gone with a voluntary manslaughter charge, none of that would need to be proven. |
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#345 |
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I think the DP in this case is almost certainly impossible. You need one of 12 aggravating circumstances in the state and I doubt this would fit even if a murder conviction is obtained.
And of course there is one almighty mitigating one. The state put the gun into the cop's hand. It doesn't look as though Slager fits any of the aggravating circumstances. |
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#346 |
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Must say, I sometimes think these cases are deliberately conceived with a bias toward failure.
I mean, when a judge can impose a 30 year sentence for manslaughter (which, theoretically, should be something of a slam-dunk), what's the actual motivation to press for a murder conviction, especially 1st degree? In a case like this the prosecution is going to have a hard time providing proof of intent which may be enough to convince a jury that he isn't guilty of the offence he's been charged with. If, OTOH, they'd gone with a voluntary manslaughter charge, none of that would need to be proven. |
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#347 |
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Must say, I sometimes think these cases are deliberately conceived with a bias toward failure.
I mean, when a judge can impose a 30 year sentence for manslaughter (which, theoretically, should be something of a slam-dunk), what's the actual motivation to press for a murder conviction, especially 1st degree? In a case like this the prosecution is going to have a hard time providing proof of intent which may be enough to convince a jury that he isn't guilty of the offence he's been charged with. If, OTOH, they'd gone with a voluntary manslaughter charge, none of that would need to be proven. Quote:
Offense Mandatory sentencing[14] Anyway, I'm sure we'll all follow the case with interest when it comes to trial.Involuntary Manslaughter Fine or up to 8 years imprisonment[15] Voluntary Manslaughter Fine or up to 15 years imprisonment[16] Second degree murder Term of years to life[17] First degree murder Life imprisonment or death sentence[18] Slager is being held in protective custody. link |
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#348 |
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I'm not sure they can impose 30 years for manslaughter. I found this:-
Anyway, I'm sure we'll all follow the case with interest when it comes to trial. I'm assuming Slager hasn't been granted bail - does anybody know? I just recall somebody telling me that you can get 30 years for manslaughter in the USA so it's often a bit pointless going to the murder charge. Course, there's always the risk that the judge will actually sentence him to 2 years or something, I suppose. Still, that'd be better than a failed murder prosecution, followed by the subsequent civil suit where the cop sues for compo' due to lost earnings and damage to reputation etc. |
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#349 |
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No idea what the law is in South Carolina (?) TBH.
I just recall somebody telling me that you can get 30 years for manslaughter in the USA so it's often a bit pointless going to the murder charge. Course, there's always the risk that the judge will actually sentence him to 2 years or something, I suppose. Still, that'd be better than a failed murder prosecution, followed by the subsequent civil suit where the cop sues for compo' due to lost earnings and damage to reputation etc. |
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#350 |
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Not really sure what point you're trying to make there.
The point is that the poster's priorities are demented. He cares too much about blatant murderers who are caught dead to rights in plain sight and hiding behind government corruption, and not enough about innocent victims. Without public scrutiny, this trial would never have happened, and without ongoing scrutiny it could fade away at any point in the process, like it has so many times before. Police have gotten away with countless killings like this one and hardly ever face any legal consequences. Some people are far too concerned about the media attention possibly making the trial unfair for the murderer, when the media attention is the only reason that there even is a fair trial. Given the circumstances and the context, they should far be more concerned about a lack of attention making it unfair for the victim. Nobody ever said there won't be a trial. It's a strawman argument creating a false dichotomy between having a trial and media attention. We don't have to choose just one. Media attention and a fair trial can coexist, and in a case like this, a trial with media attention is the only way it will be fair. There will be a trial now, but only because of the media. |
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