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Another black man shot dead in USA by police officer


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Old 08-04-2015, 08:34
R82n8
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Always baffles me why people get the idea that firing multiple shots is especially excessive or gung-ho.

You don't get a bonus for every bullet you bring back at the end of a shift.
If you're working on the assumption that somebody needs shooting, for your own safety or (in the case of a cop) the safety of the public, then, at the risk of sounding callous, you might as well do the job properly.
A shooting is a high-stress situation, you don't know how long you'll have your target in your sights and even the best marksmen can't guarantee to hit their target exactly where they intend to so, with that in mind, you don't want to risk firing one shot and then discovering you've missed.

The real issue is simply why so many US cops seem to think that their gun is pretty-much the first and only tool to be employed whenever a situation goes awry.

In the UK, I've seen a cop-car pull out to pursue a speeding biker on a suburban street and then, within a few seconds, pull over and give up.
Clearly, the cop IS thinking about what's going on, there.
He's thinking that he hasn't got a chance of catching a speeding biker who doesn't want to be caught.
He's thinking that nicking somebody for speeding isn't worth the risk to members of the public which a high-speed chase through a suburban area will create and, finally, he's thinking that it isn't worth ending up with a biker splattered all over the road just for the sake of issuing a speeding ticket.

Yank cops just don't seem to think through what they're doing at times.
Instead of asking themselves if the situation actually warrants the possible use of deadly force they just seem to charge in and then, when the shit hits the fan, they use a gun to deal with the situation they've provoked.

The thing that really worries me is that this is actually some kind of deliberate, unofficial, tactic that US cops have decided to employ in response to the number of cops who've been shot while on duty.
You know about the firearm culture in America, excellent post Si
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Old 08-04-2015, 08:41
Jim_McIntosh
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I seem to recall from one of the recent similar cases that officers are instructed to shoot the torso (the largest body section) as opposed to legs or arms, and to unload the entire clip in one go. Obviously in this case that practice was unnecessary, but it would seem to be what's instilled in training.
Makes sense. That's my "why so many shots?" question answered then.
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Old 08-04-2015, 08:55
Dan Fortesque
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Scary. I would be petrified if I was stopped by police in the US especially if I was black. No wonder the guy bolted.
I think running away is the worst thing they can do. Hopefully, the police officer will get the sentence he deserves.
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Old 08-04-2015, 09:07
shelleyj89
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Just shocking that Slager and the police could so brazenly lie and put the blame all on Walter Scott. And without this video, we would have no idea. It naturally makes you wonder how many times this has happened when there hasn't been video evidence.

I think it's easy to say "He shouldn't have run" but I can completely understand why, in the current climate, he would have panicked. There was nothing stopping Slager running after him and aprehending him without using his gun, it looks like he would have easily caught him. Instead, he draws his gun and shoots him when he is only a few feet ahead of him. So cowardly.

It's not a bad thing, the policeman is a murderer, no doubt about it.

As I said earlier, and maybe not very eloquently I think that Blueblade has a fundamental issue with the police and will seek out any story to belittle and / or discredit them.
Not once have I seen a positive view put forward.
To me that is an insult to a service he'd be buggered without.
I don't mean any offence.

Isn't that what discussion is all about?
I think whatever Blueblade has said in any other threads is completely irrelevant. You are in agreement on this matter, and that is what is relevant in this thread.
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Old 08-04-2015, 09:08
hopeless case
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This one can't get off surely!
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Old 08-04-2015, 09:26
What name??
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The policemen (plural) as they both participated in the cover up would have got away if someone hadn't hadn't recorded them and also given it to the press. They still might due to the reluctance to hold police responsible. If that were a civilian nobody would be referring to it a "bad decision" as the mayor did when referring to murder.

Obama is right I have all police killings recorded and reported to the federal authorities. But there still need to be structural changes in the investigation and prosecution of all such deaths. Because those police would have been free to move on to their next victim but for a random occurrence.
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Old 08-04-2015, 09:31
vinba
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It's disgraceful...

Reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBzW5XYXAds

There doesn't seem to be much confidence in some of the police in the States at the moment.. Wasn't there that old man who was assaulted by the police as he was telling them he couldn't speak English?
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Old 08-04-2015, 09:38
claire2281
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Worrying that such a thuggish idiot of a man was allowed to carry a gun. Completely unfit to be a police officer (let alone an armed one) if he thought that was an appropriate response.

He'd already deployed his taser - the leads are clearly seen dropping - and when the guy runs he thinks the thing to do is shoot him in the back eight times? Not a hardened criminal but a guy he's stopped for a minor car issue. That shows a disgusting cowboy attitude to life.

Cop deserves to be charged with murder. Hope it makes other trigger happy idiots think before they fire.
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Old 08-04-2015, 09:43
Will_Bee
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Are the cops not allowed to shoot you if you are running away? How many times have how seen in movies or TV shows "STOP OR I WILL SHOOT", then the cop starts firing at the runner, or the cops fire a dozen shots at a car that is speeding away from them.


People who think this cop will be found guilty of murder are naive, he will say he was in fear of his life and had to shoot, he will say he had a scuffle and he thought the guy had a weapon and was gonna turn around and shot him as he was running from him.


Plenty video has been captured before of cops killing unarmed people, how many cops have been found guilty of murder? The system protects them, it will be the same in this case.
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Old 08-04-2015, 09:47
idlewilde
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The "eight times" really is a non-issue people, and shouldn't be used to try and over-villify the shooting, justified or not.
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Old 08-04-2015, 09:49
idlewilde
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Are the cops not allowed to shoot you if you are running away? How many times have how seen in movies or TV shows "STOP OR I WILL SHOOT", then the cop starts firing at the runner, or the cops fire a dozen shots at a car that is speeding away from them.


People who think this cop will be found guilty of murder are naive, he will say he was in fear of his life and had to shoot, he will say he had a scuffle and he thought the guy had a weapon and was gonna turn around and shot him as he was running from him.


Plenty video has been captured before of cops killing unarmed people, how many cops have been found guilty of murder? The system protects them, it will be the same in this case.
I think you're absolutely right tbh
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Old 08-04-2015, 09:56
epicurian
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If he isn't convicted, I give up on our justice system. It should be basically impossible for him to take the standard tactic of coming up with some reason that he thought it was necessary. He's on tape immediately staging the the crime scene and reporting facts that totally conflict with what he is seen to do. By all rights there should be no possible way to claim he thought it was justified at the time, when his actions show that he knows it was not.
+1

My despair is deep.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:03
shelleyj89
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Are the cops not allowed to shoot you if you are running away? How many times have how seen in movies or TV shows "STOP OR I WILL SHOOT", then the cop starts firing at the runner, or the cops fire a dozen shots at a car that is speeding away from them.


People who think this cop will be found guilty of murder are naive, he will say he was in fear of his life and had to shoot, he will say he had a scuffle and he thought the guy had a weapon and was gonna turn around and shot him as he was running from him.


Plenty video has been captured before of cops killing unarmed people, how many cops have been found guilty of murder? The system protects them, it will be the same in this case.
If you're armed and are clearly a threat to the officer and the public, then I would completely understand the shooting. As another poster said, the number of shots is inconsequential - they shoot till the suspect is down, whether that takes one shot or eight. But in this case, the guy was not a threat at all. The officer could quite easily have aprehended him without using his firearm. In the time he manages to get his firearm out, get in position, take aim and fire the first shot, Walter Scott has only moved a matter of feet ahead of him.

What makes this situation different is we have clear proof that Slager lied about what happened. He's been fired from his job, and it's quite clear that the police force will not be supporting him.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:18
CSJB
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Sorry if the link isn't working, iPhone playing up.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...-murder-charge

they never seem to work when posted from a mobile.


who sits on a grand jury? how`s that all work?
my pleasure. i don`t understand why they don`t work, i didn`t change anything, just copied and pasted.
I've found if you quote then add the link whilst on a mobile it doesn't work. If you just reply without quoting and adding the link it does.

I'm not technically minded but found that's how it worked for me!
If you delete the "http" which is automatically added in the link box, before you paste the website address it should work fine.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:19
DianaFire
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Are the cops not allowed to shoot you if you are running away? How many times have how seen in movies or TV shows "STOP OR I WILL SHOOT", then the cop starts firing at the runner, or the cops fire a dozen shots at a car that is speeding away from them.


People who think this cop will be found guilty of murder are naive, he will say he was in fear of his life and had to shoot, he will say he had a scuffle and he thought the guy had a weapon and was gonna turn around and shot him as he was running from him.


Plenty video has been captured before of cops killing unarmed people, how many cops have been found guilty of murder? The system protects them, it will be the same in this case.
The thing is, how many have been charged with it instead of their version of events being accepted? I'm on the list of people who are depressed by the fact that it took video to charge him.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:20
Jim_McIntosh
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Are the cops not allowed to shoot you if you are running away? How many times have how seen in movies or TV shows "STOP OR I WILL SHOOT", then the cop starts firing at the runner, or the cops fire a dozen shots at a car that is speeding away from them.


People who think this cop will be found guilty of murder are naive, he will say he was in fear of his life and had to shoot, he will say he had a scuffle and he thought the guy had a weapon and was gonna turn around and shot him as he was running from him.


Plenty video has been captured before of cops killing unarmed people, how many cops have been found guilty of murder? The system protects them, it will be the same in this case.
Interesting prediction. I guess we'll see. I do have my moments of naivety.

I just get a feeling that with the political mood, the quick charge (especially), the dubiety that could be put on the being in fear of his life (and what the US stance on 'reasonable force' is), that there's enough there to make this different.

But then I had no idea how fast their issued guns fired either so.....pinch of salt. I should retire from this thread.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:27
James Frederick
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Are the cops not allowed to shoot you if you are running away? How many times have how seen in movies or TV shows "STOP OR I WILL SHOOT", then the cop starts firing at the runner, or the cops fire a dozen shots at a car that is speeding away from them.


People who think this cop will be found guilty of murder are naive, he will say he was in fear of his life and had to shoot, he will say he had a scuffle and he thought the guy had a weapon and was gonna turn around and shot him as he was running from him.


Plenty video has been captured before of cops killing unarmed people, how many cops have been found guilty of murder? The system protects them, it will be the same in this case.
You could look at it from the opposite way and say with all the accusations and (rightful) criticisms of the police over the last few years this time they may let justice prevail and let him go to prison that way they can point to this case as proof that they will do something if the evidence if there.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:32
CSJB
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The thing is, how many have been charged with it instead of their version of events being accepted? I'm on the list of people who are depressed by the fact that it took video to charge him.
There is another article on the guardian page with this story, it claims that the U.S police kill about a thousand people a year
I wonder how many are innocent ?
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:34
dee123
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Think I'll stay out of this thread now, I've said what I think.

I have a feeling that it's going to go batshit crazy.
Of all the cases that have occurred recently shouldn't people be going crazy about this one? If 8 times in the back isn't excessive, i don't know what is.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:38
.Lauren.
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It's disgusting. He repeatedly shot someone running away who was unarmed and he then tried to plant a weapon on him to cover his arse. If he doesn't go down for this it will be a travesty.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:45
idlewilde
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It's disgusting. He repeatedly shot someone running away...
If 8 times in the back isn't excessive, i don't know what is.
He shot 8 times because the guy was still on his feet after 8 shots. You shoot until you stop / drop the target, it isn't that hard to understand. It will be the actual decision to shoot that may well be considered unlawful, not the amount of rounds fired.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:46
Deep Purple
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Jean Charles de Menezes was shot 7 times in the head at point blank range + once in the shoulder. 11 shots were fired in total.

No surprise when someone is that fired up with testosterone and adrenaline pumping round their body.

They claimed it was because of tactics employed by the Israeli security services. A claim staunchly (and angrily with almost sneering contempt) denied by Israel. And it is true. - Israel does not have, nor ever had such a policy.
It's been explained by others why so many shots are fired. If there are grounds to shoot, you make sure you do the job.

Look at how many times the SAS shot the hostages in the Iranian Embassy, and they were classed as heroes.

Were fired up with testosterone, and nothing else mattered?

In such a situation, you need to make sure.

In this case, there is nothing to justify the shooting.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:49
SULLA
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If he isn't convicted, I give up on our justice system. It should be basically impossible for him to take the standard tactic of coming up with some reason that he thought it was necessary. He's on tape immediately staging the the crime scene and reporting facts that totally conflict with what he is seen to do. By all rights there should be no possible way to claim he thought it was justified at the time, when his actions show that he knows it was not.
Cops are also to be presumed innocent until convicted.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:53
.Lauren.
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He shot 8 times because the guy was still on his feet after 8 shots. You shoot until you stop / drop the target, it isn't that hard to understand. It will be the actual decision to shoot that may well be considered unlawful, not the amount of rounds fired.
You're quite right, you shoot until the threat is subdued. The shooting was unjustified regardless. He was running away, unarmed.

I think from a laypersons viewpoint it's difficult to understand why you would continue to shoot when the threat is running away (although I understand the training is you shoot until the target is incapacitated).
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:57
MC_Satan
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This is an indefensible one.
Is it a wise move to empty your clip into a suspect? seems risky tactics as your gun would then be empty, what if there is a second suspect?
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