Or, it could enhance it.

Oh yeah sovereignty. Despite the fact 90% of laws are passed in this country and the 10% that does come from the EU have to be put to the vote in the house anyway.

bib I was reading a topic from last year in regards to the indy ref and you are making fun of the SNPs vision of Scotland post independence.

There's a growing belief that the UK will get access to the single market, maybe not have to pay, and will be able to put and end to freedom of movement - wonder if that is part of the reason for the increasing Leave vote?

It's complete delusion if it is. And hopefully the Remain campaign start hammering that fact home over the next few days.

Some data (first figures are for Remain)

Phone Poll

Males 44 - 49
Females 41 - 44

18 - 34 52 - 36
35 - 44 41 - 44
45 - 64 37 - 53
65+ 38 - 53

Regions
Scotland 52 -42
Wales 43 - 54
North 38 - 46
Mids 36 - 51
South 48 - 43
Net England 42 - 46

Claim: The European Union makes two thirds of UK law.

Conclusion: That's about right if you count EU regulations as part of 'UK law'. The EU influence on UK-only laws is about 13%. But this counting exercise doesn't tell us very much.

Germany will still trade with us. They can't afford not to but they will want something in return for it whether that be refugees, free movement like Norway or some form of trade tax. Can you imagine if they tried to force us to the Euro! lol

In many ways it will be funny if leaving means we still have free movement.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...P=share_btn_tw

New ICM/Guardian EU referendum polls.

Both phone and online polls show a lead of 6% to Leave after Don't Knows are excluded.

53% Leave 47% Remain

But aren't they all red lines to some degree? After voting out on the basis of immigration and EU meddling, will people really accept demands from Germany?

Business is business, the Brexit will do a lot of damage to the world economy in the short term, so asking for favours or special treatment will require some good diplomatic skills.

If Ireland falls into recession on the back of Brexit, how will a referendum on treaty change go do you think?

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/m...grow-1.2682730

Well its already been confirmed that 57 trade deals will need to be renegotiated. I just wonder who will be doing that and what the realistic time scale for it all is. The Tories are going to be at civil war once next week is over so its all a bit of a mess right now.

Money talks, the ultimate rule, and time will sort this.
My guess is a lot will be untangled within two years and with a re-boot there will be options we haven't even though of now. Similarly, people worrying that it might mean the likes of IDS being back in the front bench or that all the Tories might attack the NHS are way off with their short term thinking.
Are we up to the challenge? I believe Britain will find its way, even if the electorate democratically elect governments I don't like, which is quite likely.

Besides the 57 trade deals we already have needing to be renegotiated there is also this dream of trading with the commonwealth and other rising countries so all in all about 100 trade deals need to be set up according to the dream of Brexit. Which sounds beautiful on paper but it will be a nightmare in reality and it will be decades before anything is set up and another decade after that before the UK see's any of the money back. Its a nice dream but its bordering on what Salmond was laughed at for.

yes but dont you think politics is about to get a lot more exciting rather than if we remain win ah well that sit back to your positions as you were yawn yawn

My guess is to make everything switch over as smooth and as quick as possible the government will keep all current UK/EU laws and redtape in place So the EU influence will still be in place. At least for another two decades.

Ironically many of the people supporting this dream are the same ones who 2 years ago were laughing at Salmond!

But they are the ones that are unlikely to turn out in vast numbers

Well the current government will only have 3 years which isn't really long enough so you are probably right about the UK keeping everything as it is now the same for as long as possible. We can also rule this government out of getting any major deals set up because of the time frame. Who ever comes in after that has a big task ahead of them.

Maybe they could set up a coalition think tank of the best minds...who knows. Anyway I'm sure there is some contingency plan...besides it hasn't happened yet.

Plenty of thickos on both side, I don't know why you decided I was suggesting it is only Brexiters? This is the most important issue this country has ever had a democratic vote on. Voting because of party affiliation, because you don't like the personalities on the other side or as some sort of protest vote are all terrible reasons to vote.
Unfortunately both campaigns have been short on facts and big on rhetoric.

And yes, it may happen again. But this is different from a GE, where they feel disenfranchised - lost Labour voters who would never vote Tory and either abstained or gritted their teeth to vote UKIP in the EU elections just to force a referendum.
Now it's just a Yes or No, not Cameron & crew, the Corbynistas or no hopers.

Well I'm reluctantly afraid to say but after this development I feel more and more sure that brexit is going to win on the day. Not by a huge margin but at the end of the day a wins a win.

Of course I hope I'm wrong and I could be predicting wrong but unless something significant changes I feel this is going to be the outcome.
I will still vote Bremain but alas not with great confidence of a win as I think, feel and believe that Bremain is best for our country and the people in it.

What puzzles me is the significant number of brexiters who are convinced the status quo will always win on the day

The undecideds will probably decide last moment to stick with the devil you know

I never laughed at him. Problem is the SNP wanted to be Ireland not Norway.

It's odd that 180 nations can survive outside the EU but apparently the worlds fifth largest economy cannot.

SeanT said:

Fascinating Toynbee article. Full of pessimism
"Inside Labour’s London HQ, I joined young volunteers manning the “Labour In” phones with every fact at the ready. We had sheets of Labour-supporting names to call in Nottinghamshire – and the results were grim. “Out”, “Out” and “Out” in call after call, only a couple for remain. “I’ve been Labour all my life, but I’m for leave,” they said. Why? Always the same – immigrants first; that mythical £350m saving on money sent to Brussels second; “I want my country back” third. And then there is, “I don’t know ANYONE voting in.”"
Halfway through she finally acknowledges that there might be a teensy problem with immigration, and we will need to stop Free Movement, even if we Remain.
But she also says we are turning into Nazis, so all is not lost

Brexiters, at least ones like me, have only really been passionate about leaving since it was first hinted that we'd have a referendum on it. I always thought it would be a tough act to pull off a momentous task like actually leaving the EU.

However, I am expecting before next weekend, if Brexit still leads, a confirmation from the EU that all Cameron's deals will be fully ratified and put into law AND that we will not have to extend into further ventures like increasing our migrant quota or entering an EU army (should it happen). Or am I just hoping? The EU isn't a terrible principal. The European people are as frustrated by it as we are. But it does need major reform and alas, I don't feel we'll ever achieve real reform, neither does John Cleese!