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Opinion Polls Discussion Thread (Part 3)
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wizzywick
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by PrincessPerfect:
“Yes, I doubt they'll be any more twists. I'm watching out for MORI this week too - I wonder if they'll show a Tory lead?

The one thing that may turn out to be a poisoned chalice for the Tories, is that although they'll be the largest party, even if they do a deal with the LDs, even with UKIP/DUP support, they may not be able to cobble a majority together, with the left-parties still having more numbers. In a time when another IndyRef could be looming, as well as the EU ref, and the economy still not quite there, that could be a very unstable government.”

Whoever gets in, the next five years could be a massive change for all of us. Firstly there's the uncertainty of what a minority Government will bring. Secondly there's the risk of an SNP majority Government at Holyrood. There could ultimately be another Indy Ref. There may also be a rise of English Nationalism, mainly stoked up by The Tories and UKIP. There's the economy, the welfare state, the NHS, there's Trident, there could also be a major Royal Death that will bring some gloomy times and possibly a change of monarch (after all the Queen is 89 years old). This can affect the Nations mood and the public feeling towards the current Government - either positively or negatively depending on how they react. Of course we could also have a Coronation too and maybe Harry might get married too. It is certainly going to be a very interesting 5 years - one of the most unpredictable 5 years in any of our lifetimes.
Living4Love
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by smudges dad:
“From the 2010 GE, that's:
Con -2
Lab +4
LD - 16
UKIP +12
Green +4

I fail to see how the Tories will end up with more seats than they have at present”

I was thinking the exact same. I suppose they may take some of the Lib Dem's but they will also lose seats so it will counter act it. Most of the Lib Dem losses will be to the SNP.

Only thing these polls prove is that if they reflect reality its going to be harder for the parties to form a coalition than it was in 2010.

I said it last night. Who ever wins is going to have a government that is unworkable.
Hildaonpluto
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by SULLA:
“They do have a say. They have the Scottish parliament.”

And SNP mps do not vote on English only matters at Westminster, they haven't for years..

People need to grasp that all mps are equal in our national parliament you can't delegitmise their right to have a say on non English only matters.
iwearoddsocks
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by SULLA:
“They do have a say. They have the Scottish parliament.”

You don't seen to understand how Politics in this country works.
wizzywick
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by Hildaonpluto:
“And SNP mps do not vote on English only matters at Westminster, they haven't for years..

People need to grasp that all mps are equal in our national parliament you can't delegitmise their right to have a say on non English only matters.”

Lol! That is the whole point of Labour relying on SNP to get their policies passed. They (the SNP) will HAVE to vote on English only matters in order to get policies through. That's why people in England are worried, that's where the legitimacy question becomes relevant. It has nothing to do with the Scots voting for who they want. It has nothing to do with voting together on UK wide affairs. Of course all MP's have an equal vote and right. But when the SNP will be expected to vote on English only affairs that may or may not benefit Scotland more than the English in return for the votes, that is the problem. That is what is going to cause the problems. And, neither Nicola Sturgeon nor John Swinney have said they won't participate in English only votes. Their stance is "if it's in Scotland's interest".
PrincessPerfect
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by wizzywick:
“Whoever gets in, the next five years could be a massive change for all of us. Firstly there's the uncertainty of what a minority Government will bring. Secondly there's the risk of an SNP majority Government at Holyrood. There could ultimately be another Indy Ref. There may also be a rise of English Nationalism, mainly stoked up by The Tories and UKIP. There's the economy, the welfare state, the NHS, there's Trident, there could also be a major Royal Death that will bring some gloomy times and possibly a change of monarch (after all the Queen is 89 years old). This can affect the Nations mood and the public feeling towards the current Government - either positively or negatively depending on how they react. Of course we could also have a Coronation too and maybe Harry might get married too. It is certainly going to be a very interesting 5 years - one of the most unpredictable 5 years in any of our lifetimes.”

That's a really fantastic analysis, wizzywick. It could be quite a dark five years to come, especially with how cuts impact public services. I hope that wages do increase at the very least. I'm worried about my generation (I'll be 23 this year) and how we'll face all of this. The future looks pretty terrifying!

On a less dark note, I found this from PB:

Quote:
“I've added all the recent five national polls together (Populus, ICM, Ashcroft, YouGov and TNS.) from yesterday and today.

It is a sample size of 5027 with an MOE of just 1.3%. (which is probably higher because of unknown systemic effects of different methodologies but in the absence of information, the best estimate is a weighted average).

The result is:

Con 35.8%
Lab 35.8%
LD 8.6%
UKIP 14.0%
Grn 5.8%

You might find that surprising. I think that is because we have been looking at rounded figures that exaggerate the Con lead; we have been counting Con leads versus Lab leads; and there has been one Poll (Ashcroft) with a large Con lead but a very small sample.

It is easy to be misled, particularly if you are emotionally involved (confirmation bias).”

I still think there's been a swing to the Tories, but looking at this it could still very well be close.
Mariesam
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by Tassium:
“I do hope the pollsters get a good kicking over this election, I'm tired of their smugness.

What's also annoying is how the media are treating these people as latter-day sooth-sayers on a wide range of issues. Apparently YouGov know what you are thinking even before you do.”

I agree with you, what people must realise they are businesses and there to make a profit, I think the daily polls are pretty pointless, weekly ones should be the minimum....and I think everyone puts to much meaning into them, including the media that love to create stories us out of nothing.....
MattXfactor
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by PrincessPerfect:
“That's a really fantastic analysis, wizzywick. It could be quite a dark five years to come, especially with how cuts impact public services. I hope that wages do increase at the very least. I'm worried about my generation (I'll be 23 this year) and how we'll face all of this. The future looks pretty terrifying!

On a less dark note, I found this from PB:



I still think there's been a swing to the Tories, but looking at this it could still very well be close.”

Agreed, I'm 19 and feel similar however I'm hopeful that the next 5 years will be positive on the whole.
PrincessPerfect
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by MattXfactor:
“Agreed, I'm 19 and feel similar however I'm hopeful that the next 5 years will be positive on the whole.”

I hope you're right! Two things that really worry me are wage levels and getting a mortgage. I wonder how long our generation will have to wait until we can own a home, and just at what we'll be, when we pay off our mortgage, if we can even get one!

I'm also seriously worried about the cuts:tax ratio of the incoming government - especially how cuts could impact mental health.
wizzywick
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by PrincessPerfect:
“I hope you're right! Two things that really worry me are wage levels and getting a mortgage. I wonder how long our generation will have to wait until we can own a home, and just at what we'll be, when we pay off our mortgage, if we can even get one!

I'm also seriously worried about the cuts:tax ratio of the incoming government - especially how cuts could impact mental health.”

Not the right thread I know, but giving the people the chance of having affordable homes is the one issue ALL parties are failing at. It's easy to say "no tax on new homes for first time buyers" or "let's persecute landlords by asking them not to increase the rent even though their expenses may go up anyway". It is easy to say "Council tenants can buy their homes or we will help with a bond to give you a leg up" but what does it actually mean? nothing. It is all nonsense.

What is needed is action. Ideas from ordinary people. For politicians to listen and to genuinely care.
MattXfactor
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by PrincessPerfect:
“I hope you're right! Two things that really worry me are wage levels and getting a mortgage. I wonder how long our generation will have to wait until we can own a home, and just at what we'll be, when we pay off our mortgage, if we can even get one!

I'm also seriously worried about the cuts:tax ratio of the incoming government - especially how cuts could impact mental health.”

Re homes you are definitely right about that its getting more difficult, People who have no financial support from family members will certainly struggle unless we sort the housing problem out.
PrincessPerfect
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by wizzywick:
“Not the right thread I know, but giving the people the chance of having affordable homes is the one issue ALL parties are failing at. It's easy to say "no tax on new homes for first time buyers" or "let's persecute landlords by asking them not to increase the rent even though their expenses may go up anyway". It is easy to say "Council tenants can buy their homes or we will help with a bond to give you a leg up" but what does it actually mean? nothing. It is all nonsense.

What is needed is action. Ideas from ordinary people. For politicians to listen and to genuinely care.”

Agreed.

Originally Posted by MattXfactor:
“Re homes you are definitely right about that its getting more difficult, People who have no financial support from family members will certainly struggle unless we sort the housing problem out.”

Unfortunately (like with a lot of other things) it seems the main political parties have no real solution to the housing problem. And on top of that, you then have to question just how competent they'd be at making their plan a success!
MattXfactor
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by PrincessPerfect:
“Agreed.


Unfortunately (like with a lot of other things) it seems the main political parties have no real solution to the housing problem. And on top of that, you then have to question just how competent they'd be at making their plan a success!”

Agree none of the parties have a credible plan on this in my view.
wizzywick
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by MattXfactor:
“Re homes you are definitely right about that its getting more difficult, People who have no financial support from family members will certainly struggle unless we sort the housing problem out.”

Housing could be sorted relatively quickly and reasonably cheaply.

I would allocate money to each local authority in the form of housing loans which local authorities could pay back by the method explained later.

This money would be used to build apartment blocks that would be owned by the council. However, they would not be for social housing tenants. These would be helped differently. Again, I'll explain later. These apartment blocks would be for people who are having difficulty in finding affordable rent in the private sector. You would need to go on a waiting list to get one, but priority would be given to young people seeking to buy their own property in the future or families or both. There is a catch though, tenancies would last three years maximum because they are designed to give people a stepping stone to appropriate accommodation or their own home. How does it work?

You would not need a deposit. Instead you pay the council a set fee + rent each month for maintenance and repairs. The rent would be affordable but not as cheap as those in social housing. You would then have the home for three years and you would need to find alternative accommodation after 2 and half - 3 years. As I say, the homes are designed to be a stepping stone to your own home. The cheaper rents and no hefty deposits mean you will be able to save and prepare for finding your own place more easily than facing pressure or worrying about whether your landlord will sell next year.

The money from the rents would then be used to repay the Government and the money from rents once the Government has been repaid will be used to build new social housing in compliance with the amount of people in urgent need of housing that are on housing lists. This would ensure social housing being readily available for anyone in desperate need. It would also save money on B&B's and hostels that so many people are being forced to live in.
MartinP
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by smudges dad:
“From the 2010 GE, that's:
Con -2
Lab +4
LD - 16
UKIP +12
Green +4

I fail to see how the Tories will end up with more seats than they have at present”

It would only take 14% of those who say they will vote UKIP to vote Conservative on May 7th. Or in other words the UKIP share to go down c 3% from 15% to 12% which I think it entirely possible.
Jilly
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by MattXfactor:
“Agree none of the parties have a credible plan on this in my view.”

There us the "Help To Buy" scheme which has got thousands on the propert ladder.
Phil 2804
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by smudges dad:
“From the 2010 GE, that's:
Con -2
Lab +4
LD - 16
UKIP +12
Green +4

I fail to see how the Tories will end up with more seats than they have at present”

It's a 3% national swing to Labour, but here's the thing, if Labour are truly doing badly in Scotland yet within reach nationally it means the swing in England must be greater than that. And of course at every election since 1997 Labour have out performed the national swing.
TelevisionUser
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by smudges dad:
“From the 2010 GE, that's:
Con -2
Lab +4
LD - 16
UKIP +12
Green +4

I fail to see how the Tories will end up with more seats than they have at present”

Parties getting a reduced share of the vote just don't end up getting more seats - it doesn't happen. Based on a lower share of the vote, there will be fewer, and not more, Conservative MPs in the 2015-2020 parliament.

Originally Posted by MartinP:
“It would only take 14% of those who say they will vote UKIP to vote Conservative on May 7th. Or in other words the UKIP share to go down c 3% from 15% to 12% which I think it entirely possible.”

According to the latest poll of polls, UKIP support is holding steady and it is not bleeding back to any party, Labour or Conservative. Although I would not necessarily expect to see any spiral of silence effect in this election, UKIP is the one party it is most likely to happen to given the vilification of that party in the press.
paulschapman
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by TelevisionUser:
“According to the latest poll of polls, UKIP support is holding steady and it is not bleeding back to any party, Labour or Conservative. Although I would not necessarily expect to see any spiral of silence effect in this election, UKIP is the one party it is most likely to happen to given the vilification of that party in the press.”

Thing is UKIP want a referendum on Europe preferably quicker but the only way that is going to happen is with a Conservative led government at least - how many UKIP voters are likely to make the same consideration and vote Conservative?
Meepers
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by Hildaonpluto:
“And SNP mps do not vote on English only matters at Westminster, they haven't for years..

People need to grasp that all mps are equal in our national parliament you can't delegitmise their right to have a say on non English only matters.”

Yes they do, they use a weak argument that issues can still affect Scotland even if its England only
Amanda_Raymond
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by Phil 2804:
“It's a 3% national swing to Labour, but here's the thing, if Labour are truly doing badly in Scotland yet within reach nationally it means the swing in England must be greater than that. And of course at every election since 1997 Labour have out performed the national swing.”

My thoughts exactly
SubseaColin
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by Meepers:
“Yes they do, they use a weak argument that issues can still affect Scotland even if its England only”

Why is that a weak argument? First, it is based on the principle that has not been changed that all MP's are equal in Westminster. Second it stands on its own in that as long as there is a financial linkage between matters agreed in Westminster and funding of Scotland within the UK, then Scottish MPs are justified in influencing the decision. Is it just SNP MP's that are 'sub-standard' or would Labour and Conservatives fail to use any Scottish MP's in a close called vote?
Hildaonpluto
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by Meepers:
“Yes they do, they use a weak argument that issues can still affect Scotland even if its England only”

But you see it isn't actually a weak argument unless you can give me an example or argument for how something that has direct implications for Scotland is none of Scotland's business...?

Many of the things characterised as England only by the media actually aren't. It has to be England only in fact not just in spin and hype.
SubseaColin
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by Phil 2804:
“It's a 3% national swing to Labour, but here's the thing, if Labour are truly doing badly in Scotland yet within reach nationally it means the swing in England must be greater than that. And of course at every election since 1997 Labour have out performed the national swing.”

I understand the point you are making - that the national polls include Scotland and, therefore, Labour in England and Wales must be performing a couple of points up to compensate - but what do you mean by the last sentence?
SULLA
28-04-2015
Originally Posted by Hildaonpluto:
“And SNP mps do not vote on English only matters at Westminster, they haven't for years.. ”

But they would like to

Originally Posted by iwearoddsocks:
“You don't seen to understand how Politics in this country works.”

Not helpful
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