you know only playgroups of small kids dont sound stupid when they talk imaginary rubbish to each other.. and they too don't like it when an adult puts them right.

Well they did cut civilian BB back to 10 weeks to make way for an extra CBB. Then again the civilian show was too long at 13 weeks so that's a plus. CBB attracts higher viewing figures and more advertising revenue/media coverage, though at the extra cost of fees for the housemates (which allegedly run into millions).

What annoys some folks here is that CBB was getting all the pre-series hype and speculation in the media and we were getting next to nothing on the next series due to be aired. How much, if any, of that was down to C5/Endemol leaking stuff we don't know.

It certainly gets them more column inches and 'showbiz news' airplay; and probably better advertising revenue. It gives the channel a profile, I think, for its short run.

Thing is with BB, no matter what it gets, it will always look low compared to CBB, especially since we had the highest rated CBB on January. BB gets around 1m lower than CBB, but with BB15 and CBB15 the gap was bigger as BB15 averaged 1.6m and CBB15 averaged 3.1m which is almost double.

BB14 launched with 2.13m overnight for its first launch and BB15 launched with 2.10m excl +1, so BB15 actually did slightly better than BB14 launch, however, BB14 kept a huge chunk of its audience as the final for it got 2.10m and BB15 got 1.60m.

BB16 won't be higher than 2.2m overnight, no matter whether the promotion is incredible, not many people want to watch regular people anymore. Like to be wrong though.

I think I've actually seen more about the upcoming ordinary BB than the next CBB.

But the main problem with "they care only about the celeb version" is: if so, why have they kept the ordinary BB?

Perhaps C5 and Endemol are happy with ordinary BB as it is. It reliably gets at least 1.6 million viewers as a series average (only bb14 was higher, at 1.9). Promotion has to seem worth the money. How many more viewers could they get if they spent more on promotion?

I think the problem is that, out here, quite a few people think BB could have MANY more viewers, if only it had more promotion. I think that's unrealistic, and I suspect C5 and Endemol think so too.

Of course, "MANY" is a bit vague, but it generally is kept vague. That might make it easier to believe it could happen. However, there has never been a sustained increase in the BB audience size. It sometimes goes up, from one year to the next, but it doesn't keep going up (or even stay at the higher level). I think that shows there really isn't a big, untapped pool of people who would watch BB if only it were more promoted.

It IS unrealistic, I agree. BB will only go so far and BB14 will be the BB3 type peak for Ch5. All civilian series have been within 300,000 of each other. Whilst CBB has gone from a low of 2.1m in CBB14 to a high of 3.1m in CBB15. So CBB can thrive more and can go much higher depending on the series.

Yes, but I think that makes January's CBB sound more successful than it was, and bb15 less successful than it was.

If January's CBB was the highest rated, it can't have been by much, because to the nearest 100,000, it has the same series average as the previous January's (3.1 million); and the CBB in between had the lowest CBB series average so far on C5 (2.1 million).

BB15 had the same series average (1.6 million) as every C5 BB except 14 (which had 1.9).

So I'm inclined to agree with what you said in your next post, that "BB14 will be the BB3 type peak", with 1.6 million having the role that 4.5-4.7 million -- BBs 1, 2, 4, 6, and 7 -- used to have on C4.


I think more might watch the regular BB if it were shorter, and didn't have a CBB attached to the end. But probably not enough to make up for the smaller audience C5 would have when BB wasn't on.


But CBB also went from an earlier high of 3.1 million to that low of 2.1 million; and on C5 it has twice been as high as 2.8. So I don't think CBB can go much higher. The area around 3 million looks more like a maximum than a stage towards something higher.

Yea seems a bit boring this year - love the tense trailer though :P

Yep CBB13 and CBB15 were very close.

CBB13- 3.07m
BB15- 1.57m
CBB14- 2.10m
CBB15- 3.09m

So looking at that, you are right that it make BB15 and CBB14 look worse than they would have a year earlier as the previous year CBB12 had go 2.3m so a 2.1m wouldn't look so out of place and BB15 wouldn't have looked out of place following BB13 which got 1.6m. And your right again that CBB15 looks better than it would have if it followed CBB8 which got 2.8m and CBB11 which also got 2.8m.

So it depends how big the success is. I classify CBB15 as a big hit because it followed the lowest civilian series ever and the lowest celeb series ever.

However, I'm not sure if I agree with the "this is how high CBB will go", I personally thought that after CBB8, but CBB13 and CBB15 proved me wrong.

Who knows, one year it could officially averaged 3.5m, it depends on the time, the Hm selection, the entertainment etc..

I think that seeing them as the lowest ever is misleading. It's like when people say bb7 has the 3rd highest series average on C4. Yes, it does, but it isn't very different from BBs 1, 2, 4, and 6. The exceptions from those years are BBs 3 and 5, not 7.

CBB 14 was the lowest (2.1m), but it wasn't very different from CBBs 10 and 12 (2.2, 2.3). (The summer CBBs seem to struggle, compared to the winter ones.)

There may be an argument (perhaps involving +1 viewers?) that gives BB 12 a higher series average than BB 15, which would make BB 15 the lowest ever; but in any case, BBs 12, 13, and 15 have essentially the same average: 1.6m.

So rather than seeing the BB and CBB that CBB15 followed as especially low, I see them as fairly typical.


If we look at the winter CBBs on C5, the series averages (in millions) were 2.6, 2.8, 3.1, 3.1. On reflection, I think that does suggest an upward trend that might continue. On the other hand, the slight increase from one 3.1 (3.07) to the next (3.09) reminds me of the slight (though greater) increase from BB 6 to BB 7. That certainly wasn't an upward trend that continued.

dont forget total numbers are only part of the story...
you also need a breakdown of who they are.

e.g. 1mil bbc1 viewers are more in demand to advertisers than 2mil itv viewers... hence why itv keeps taking "popular" bbc presenters and trying to get their fan base to come over to itv (they dont which is why they then sink, as the presenters no longer fit the sort of shows that the low rent advertisers of loans, bingo and ambulance chasers etc can afford, who become the only advertisers paying for the slots...)
so lower numbers but more appealing viewers = success, and a measure of success was shown in how the "quality" advertisers stuck with the last summer series to the end, even though many of the slots they bought were not bought in advance but as the series went on.

This is true. It's been years since BB launches huge and then plummets. On Ch5 the ratings pretty much stay consistent, which means the show has a lot of dedicated hardcore fans still. Even though the BB15 ratings look poorer than BB14, despite the manipulation, a big chunk still watched.

Makes me wonder. Does the channel prefer huge launches or prefer consistency? Better for revenue? I'd take consistency over big launches.

Id classify a 2.6m launch and consistently 2.3m across the run as a better success than a 4.5m launch which falls to 2.3m by the end.

watch the quality of advertiser... while the titles and PP are agreed before the start much of tv breaks will be booked "nearer the airing" - compare the adverts of the last 2 weeks of powertrip and the last 2 weeks of the first c5 effort... the quality adverts were no where to be seen... the fact they were still big brand adverts last year shows the series was pulling in the people they wanted it to.

I've confused as to which one's first. I know one starts in May but that's about it.

Regular BB starts next week then CBB follows after a short break

Next week, No one even knows about it

There doesn't seem to be a countdown this year either. There was briefly one last year, but it seemed to stop after "6 days", with nothing from 5 days onwards.

Who were the quality advertisers? If you're including everyone but "loans, bingo and ambulance chasers" in "quality", I don't think that's enough quality to show anything interesting.


Every other C5 non-celeb BB looks similarly "poor" compared to bb14 too.

But the number does still significantly fall after the launch. For example, BB13's highest number was for the first episode, 2.93. The average for week 2 was already down to 1.86. That's over a million gone (and is 36.5% of 2.93).


The usual story has been that it's demographics that matter most, and the number of viewers in desirable categories.

if you cant remember then you cant comment... oh but you do comment even though you now realise you don't know the facts that were important...

there were big brand adverts, supermarkets like tesco, persil etc solidly advertised throughout the series... when before there were payday lenders in the slots.

if the likes of brighthouse are dominant in your adverts you have a cheap programme aimed at poor people - the advertising slots are cheap. the quality of advertiser was dramatically up last year and stayed to the end (which they would not have if their figures showed they were missing their targets)... big brother lost some viewers, but they gained and held the better viewers... the show was a success... and those that left, were not valuable to the channel.

the tv market has changed. when BB launched there were less options for people. BB could widecast with an aim to entertain as many as possible. now channels need to narrowcast. they need to pick a demographic and capture it specifically. the people "brighthouse" type advertisers aim for already have itv & itv2.. channel 5 initially went for that target with bb and it was dire. with s&l and pt they tried to go up market a little. to steal some of the c4 audience back (as they are all over the place with desperate "shock shows" that c5 used to do) and grab some premium advertisers. that means entertainment that entertains fewer normally but the advertisers pay more to access the viewer type... so c5 went for the money. with more channels than ever and netflix and youtube etc BB has changed, it has an aim many will feel alienates them... but they should not worry... the sister mtv channels and itv2 have plenty of shows they should like - they just have to realise BB moved away from them and lots of shows do that over time as they adjust to reposition their aim. this year those that felt bb was not entertaining them the last couple may well get a show more in tune with them again - but as BB do not have the hours to "widecast" anymore it still wont be as "general" as the early years...thus if c5 want to hold the advertisers they gained last year and not go back to the low rent aimed low paying ones i bet they dont.

That's bordering on insult.


It sounds like you don't have any evidence that BB "gained and held the better viewers". You're just assuming it, based on a questionable interpretation of the ads.

The sponsor for BBs 14 and 15 was Super Casino. That is NOT impressive and indeed a step down from Freederm (BB12) and Schwarzkopf Live Color (BB13). BB must have done something wrong.

you are talking about only the "wrap" (which C5 have an interest in by the way) and not what i was talking about... who were of course not a gambling company in the last celeb

I see your point; I just don't agree with it. Your claims about who the advertisers were, even if true, would not establish your claims about the show and its viewers, since there could easily be other explanations.

I see you've added this.


A change in the advertisers might have any of a number of different explanations. There wouldn't have to be any change in the quality of the show or in the audience for advertisers to decide that BB was of interest even on C5.

the adverts and the way advert slots are in fact marketed and sold are a very GOOD indicator of who is watching and how valuable they are to advertisers... if you want to keep arguing that is wrong you are insulting yourself

I dont usually see promotions as I rarely watch anything on Ch5, I just come on here then I know when its on next.