When was the last time we really played well? We have been stuttering since the beginning of '16 and even before that we weren't that great. We have done just about enough to keep in contention but I am struggling to think of a time we have been consistently good. We still have in no particular order, Everton, West Ham, Man City and TH away to play yet. Then at home we can't get a run going. We won't have a better chance than this season to win a title with Chelsea and Utd of the picture, Man City blowing hot and cold. But yes, in true Arsenal fashion, we can always be relied on to truly cock it up. Wenger is a busted flush. To think we have another season (at least) of this manager fills me with dread.

What frustrates me is how often we see this sort of performance? When has AW ever managed to the it around during a game? Doesn't matter if we make substitutions as we will carry on doing the same thing. Problem is just getting worse. We are used to our poor defending but now we can't score and the midfield is non-existent.

I wonder if Kroenke even knows the result let alone watch the shower of sh*t today.

He's so obsessed with trying to be like Barcelona. Instead of trying to get players to play that way, maximise their strengths and play a less rigid style of game. We have good players but they are not being used correctly. Not saying abandon our passing game as such but by golly we do pass it to death at times, obsessively and it's holding us back. It's not a crime to be a bit more direct and mix things up a bit. But it's same same old. It will be the same against Swansea then against TH. We are so utterly predictable.

He has never retained the title, even with the double teams, and has only reached one CL final, which unlike him was done by playing proactive football. So this idea that he is a 'great' manager goes out of the window. He's good and rightly Arsenal's best ever.

His record against Mourinho was not terrible to begin with. He just does nothing to change it, because he's not fixated about the stats. Has this belief that his team can prevail whatever the opposition throws at them 8 times out of 10.

Wenger does adapt. He is forward thinking. His vision (pardon the pun) about football is second to none. But his tactics do not work with these players. They always let you down. They never learn as much as he does. They look clueless the first time the opposition breaks forward. They cannot control games.

Wenger has done a fantastic job at Arsenal. No matter what happens he has given us great memories, worked with top footballers and oversaw a stadium move. But he is 66. He will not win the CL because it's all about deep squads and Arsenal don't have that. The PL has gone from Manchester United/Newcastle when he arrived, to now six teams potentially having the chance of winning it.

The board have to make their biggest decision this summer. 'Do we want to keep Wenger and stand still, or take the leap into the unknown and challenge'? I'm worried that there is no legacy plan in place.

- tactics
- mental strength
- humility
- the self awareness to call it a day
- his marbles

Take your pick.

Thanks for all the replies. Some people say he never found a replacement for Viera, a midfield general and play maker. He is credited with bringing in a certain level of discipline and professionalism into the game: looking after the body: nutrition, diet, rest, cutting out the alcohol. This has been adopted throughout the premiership.

Only Wenger will decide if enough is enough. When all the prizes have been handed out at the end of the season. He won't get the bullet. I don't see him walking unless there is real pressure on him and we really do implode from here on in. He may feel he can do no more with one more season left on his contract. I don't see that happening though. The board need to hang back though and not be in a rush to offer him a new deal.

At least the next game comes fairly soon. Only consolation (?) is City play Pool again at the same time. Beating Spuds even more important now.

You wouldn't tell this team was going for the title, given the performance.

I think Wenger didn't hit out at the players because of the Swansea game coming soon. He mollycoddles them far too much.

The problem I have is the players are mentally fragile. Never learn from their mistakes. Adams, Campbell, Dixon, Bould, Keown, Lauren, Vieira, Wrighty.........could go on and on would've shouted at some of these for turning up so sluggish. When Chelsea beat Arsenal a few weeks ago Koscielny was the first to collapse on the floor, almost in tears. Cech had to pick him up, which tells me plenty.

And this team don't look like worthy champions. Always let you down. Spurs, West Ham, City, Everton still to go away....................more away day dissapointments!

To add salt to the wounds, them lot up the road, it pains me to say it are it seems finally getting their act together. A forward thinking youthful manager. A decent squad of players who know their job and a brand new spanking stadium to look forward to. Where the fans will be a part of the action (close to the pitch) unlike our souless bowl of a stadium.

We have a dithering stubborn 66 year old manager who refuses to concede any faults of his own and always blames everyone else for his failings. The future isn't looking so bright

The man gets his bonuses each way, so i doubt he is fussed. Which is the problem.

I have lost count of the players who looked like they were on a par with first team players between 5-10 years ago: Merida, Stokes, Vela, Barazite, Lansbury, Afobe, Gilbert, Nordvedt, Quincy, Myachi off the top of my head. I know they haven't gone on to much in many cases but then the coaching levels that they dropped to were much lower, but every one of them looked a decent prospect.

It wasn't as if they were being kept out by superstars. It was Aliadiere, Flamini, Cygan, Eboue, Chamakh, Bendtner, Vivas, Djorrou, Denilson, Squillaci, Benayoun and Santos who didn't go onto much better themselves.

Unbelievable quote from Wenger post match.

@Arsenal
Wenger on Manchester United: "Let's not got overboard. They had a very experienced midfield and spent a lot of money."

At least we didn't waste 40 odd million on Sterling. Vastly overrated and he missed 2 sitters in the final.

Unless you're Leicester, maybe Ranieri will change everything back to burger & chips. A little of what you fancy does you good

Deary me

Meh Wenger will be gone soon. At 66 the end is clearly nigh. This is what gets me through it.


Spot on especially the bit about Kos. If one of our better players and sometimrs captain gas no bottle, than the rest of them will not.

A team going for a title should want it, fight for it, earn it. Not just rely on the manager's say so or just turn up and do nothing.

Wenger is mentaly weak so his players apart from Cech are. I will say it again, when the manager says he is "baffled" his team is not scoring and all can see why it says it all.

Ozil is showing why Real sold him and Sanchez is showing why Barca did. Both look good when playing lesser teams. Play the big guns they get shown up.

Hahahaha. Do not get me wrong. Depay, blind. Morgan s and carrick are a good midfield tbh. However lets not mask failure with it. Still waiting for his followers to back him on here.

You see I don't agree with this. I think we have a decent bunch of players (Alexi and Ozil are at the top of that list) who under a good manager would have been well on the way to winning the league this season. The club promised much during the leaner years when we first built the stadium but it's come to nowt. They owe us loyal fans a Guardiola or a manager of his calibrate if nothing else.

What?!?!!! They had defence playing CM FFS!

Such a weak performance. Given Man Utd's lengthy injury list and the fact that they had to use two CMs as their CBs, plush a rash of youngsters (did our brainless players even think to target Varela after his early yellow card?) this has to be one of the worst results we've ever had under Wenger. As long as Wenger stays in charge, this is what we're going to get.

Players who will def leave/retire at the end of the season. Arteta, Rosicky and Flamini. Borderline...Campbell and Mertesacker. Players who would not bother me one jot if they did leave...Oxlade-Chamberlain, Walcott, Ramsey, Giroud, Gibbs, Wilshere and Mertesacker

They played for 2 of the best clubs in the world under better manages and both got rid.Yes they are great players, world class infact but when needed they do not show up. Both do not need a managet to step up when playing the big boys they should be up for it. We are not going to get a Guardiola or anyone who is ambitious until the board changes.

Maybe you are right under a Jose or Pep our players may have devoped better. Just give me a Berkamp, De boer or Simone.

Agree with a lot of those. Arteta, Rosicky (sadly) will definitely go.
I think the FA Cup is realisitically our only chance of a trophy now. If we win it or even if we dont, AW should probably retire