|
||||||||
Arsenal Supporters Thread (Part 16) |
![]() |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#6626 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: London
Posts: 5,253
|
So is Kos available this weekend?
|
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#6627 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Posts: 4,908
|
How can we spend big on the likes of Ozil a few seasons back and yet not have the money to buy Mustafi. It doesn't make sense.
1. In addition to the revenue being generated from being at the Emirates, we now have money from the bumper TV deal so where is all the money going? 2. How can the likes of Leicester compete with us on wages for Vardy and Mahrez? Sickens me to see Man City of all clubs get a top class manager in Guardiola (and also Conte to an extent) who will transform their team and tactics whereas we're stuck with Uncle Wenger who can't teach defence and resilience. |
|
|
|
|
|
#6628 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,200
|
Quote:
How can we spend big on the likes of Ozil a few seasons back and yet not have the money to buy Mustafi. It doesn't make sense.
1. In addition to the revenue being generated from being at the Emirates, we now have money from the bumper TV deal so where is all the money going? 2. How can the likes of Leicester compete with us on wages for Vardy and Mahrez? Sickens me to see Man City of all clubs get a top class manager in Guardiola (and also Conte to an extent) who will transform their team and tactics whereas we're stuck with Uncle Wenger who can't teach defence and resilience. http://www.football365.com/news/weng...fraid-to-spend Look at those quotes. All the old favourites in there. Honestly I think he's said this exactly thing for the past 4 or 5 seasons. He deserves all that is coming to him. |
|
|
|
|
|
#6629 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Posts: 4,908
|
It's almost as though he has given responsibility to his scouts to identify alternatives to Mustafi, they have given a list of names and he is now saying that they are average and won't improve the squad therefore he won't buy.
So surely if Mustafi is good enough to improve the squad you pay the going rate. Unless you live in Wengerland where you won't pay over the valuation of what Arsenal think he is worth. |
|
|
|
|
|
#6630 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: London
Posts: 5,253
|
I am kind of at the point where I am past caring now. Anything that will accelerate his departure is fine by me. And if that means being a complete muppet re transfers then so be it. Dare he say down the line that he is short in defence if he doesn't get anybody in. Let's face it, he wasn't even going to get a new CB til Gabriel got crocked.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#6631 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,869
|
All sorts of things can hold up a transfer, but yeah, most are money-related.
One of the most common is that the selling club will want the player to put in a transfer request so they don't have to pay him any compensation on his contract on his way out the door. That can often be a lot of money if there are still a few years left on it. Another can be agents' fees - and who pays them. There will often be disputes between the two clubs on who pays who. Often there are third party agents involved too, that might have engineered the deal. All in all it can be a right old wrangle, and this is why it frequently goes to the wire, and TDD is more often than not the busiest day of the window. They're not panic buys, they're the settlements of deals that have been bubbling away for weeks and months, with all parties holding out for whatever they can get, then settling at the last minute. |
|
|
|
|
|
#6632 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,200
|
Quote:
It's almost as though he has given responsibility to his scouts to identify alternatives to Mustafi, they have given a list of names and he is now saying that they are average and won't improve the squad therefore he won't buy.
So surely if Mustafi is good enough to improve the squad you pay the going rate. Unless you live in Wengerland where you won't pay over the valuation of what Arsenal think he is worth.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#6633 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: North Devon
Posts: 12,642
|
Quote:
How can we spend big on the likes of Ozil a few seasons back and yet not have the money to buy Mustafi. It doesn't make sense.
1. In addition to the revenue being generated from being at the Emirates, we now have money from the bumper TV deal so where is all the money going? 2. How can the likes of Leicester compete with us on wages for Vardy and Mahrez? Sickens me to see Man City of all clubs get a top class manager in Guardiola (and also Conte to an extent) who will transform their team and tactics whereas we're stuck with Uncle Wenger who can't teach defence and resilience. Why? Who knows unless the club tells us. It seems to be on both transfer fees and wages we are struggling to compete with anyone. In the same way our transfer budget appears to have to cover salaries as well as the transfer fee. Got to be an underlying reason and in relative terms we see to be quibbling over minimal amounts. I mean we actually bid lower than an existing bid for Mustafi. What was that all about. |
|
|
|
|
|
#6634 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,869
|
Quote:
Yes, it a question being asked on a lot of forums. We don’t have the cash to compete with Utd, City or Chelsea. Now as you say we don’t seem to be able to compete with Leicester, West Ham, Spurs or Liverpool.
Why? Who knows unless the club tells us. It seems to be on both transfer fees and wages we are struggling to compete with anyone. In the same way our transfer budget appears to have to cover salaries as well as the transfer fee. Got to be an underlying reason and in relative terms we see to be quibbling over minimal amounts. I mean we actually bid lower than an existing bid for Mustafi. What was that all about. So Mezut Ozil yeah. Coveted big name international player who is a star for Real Madrid. There's the justification. Alexis Sanchez is in the same bracket. Shkodran Mustafi... Sorry? Who? You paid how much for him? And you've given him how much in wages? Did we need to spend that? Why? Who else was in for him? Couldn't we have waited until our other defenders were fit? etc. |
|
|
|
|
|
#6635 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: London
Posts: 5,253
|
Think that's hogwash Elyan wrt to the owner being responsible. I doubt he even knew who Ozil was. I do admire your staunch defence of the manager but the buck stops with him. It's well known he runs the rule on all transfers with a fine tooth comb. He has a set of criteria that governs his decisions. I know age is one and potential sell-on value is another. The money is available. There is only one man choosing to dither and quibble over valuations and it's not Stan.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#6636 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,869
|
Quote:
Think that's hogwash Elyan wrt to the owner being responsible. I doubt he even knew who Ozil was. I do admire your staunch defence of the manager but the buck stops with him. It's well known he runs the rule on all transfers with a fine tooth comb. He has a set of criteria that governs his decisions. I know age is one and potential sell-on value is another. The money is available. There is only one man choosing to dither and quibble over valuations and it's not Stan.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#6637 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: London
Posts: 5,253
|
Quote:
You think Wenger makes the final decision on finances? Of course he has a say, but he's not the dictator many would have you believe. There will be a committee consisting of him, Gazidis and others. He will have the last say on who comes in and who goes out, but the financial dealings will be done by somebody else, within the limits of the budget and the policies. Wenger doesn't have time to do all the negotiating etc. Surely people don't believe that? He will identify the targets, then let others get on with it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#6638 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,869
|
Quote:
He's the one that decides if a player is worth XY or Z. Not David Miles or Ivan Gazidis. Yes the financial nitty gritty stuff and negotiating will be done by others but only once Wenger has approved it or on his instructions. That's the problem though, he is the dictator. He's probably drafted his own contract extension too
![]() I think people just get that impression because he's the front man. If we fail to land any transfers, it's him who faces the press and says we didn't manage to do it. He rarely says why - and nor does anyone else. |
|
|
|
|
|
#6639 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,200
|
Quote:
Wenger doesn't have time to do all the negotiating etc. Surely people don't believe that?
In interview after interview over the years with Arsene, with former players, former officials, anyone who has dealt with the club it has been stressed how much control and personal involvement Arsene maintains. It's legendary and obsessive / excessive. The club is Arsene and very little escapes his oversight. So what if he does try to keep involved in all aspects of a transfer? What if he is reluctant to trust anyone else? What if he insists on being involved in the discussions and agreements, the salaries and transfer fees? Is that really impossible to believe? I struggle to believe he isn't to be honest. And maybe that explains why we have become so famously terrible at completing even the simplest of transfers - even for players who actually want to play for us? Maybe the fact that he won't hand over that responsibility to anyone else is why it's all falling apart. As you say, it's impossible for one man to do so much but I have a suspicion that one man is trying to do exactly that and nobody in the club has the authority to tell him to stop. Stan? Stan doesn't care as long as the club remains profitable. Why would he? He doesn't actually take anything out of the club beyond a (relatively) nominal management fee. |
|
|
|
|
|
#6640 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 241
|
Quote:
How do people know all of this about Wenger being a dictator and having total and complete control over exactly how much is spent?
I think people just get that impression because he's the front man. If we fail to land any transfers, it's him who faces the press and says we didn't manage to do it. He rarely says why - and nor does anyone else. |
|
|
|
|
|
#6641 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: London
Posts: 5,253
|
Quote:
How do people know all of this about Wenger being a dictator and having total and complete control over exactly how much is spent?
I think people just get that impression because he's the front man. If we fail to land any transfers, it's him who faces the press and says we didn't manage to do it. He rarely says why - and nor does anyone else. |
|
|
|
|
|
#6642 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,869
|
Quote:
You're not 20 years a manager at the same club without having as much influence as Wenger does. I have never heard him talk about specific players that don't play for Arsenal wrt to transfers. He will never go into specifics about transfers in the pressers. Same as any other manager really.
Of course he will have complete control over ins and outs. That is a must in my opinion for any football manager. But does he have complete control over exactly how much players are bought and sold for? I seriously doubt that. There will be an agreed budget for transfers, and an agreed policy on wages. Those agreements are made between Wenger and the other internal parties involved. Gazidis etc. Do you think Dick Law has to keep ringing Wenger up and asking him if it's OK to bid an extra half million? |
|
|
|
|
|
#6643 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,200
|
Quote:
Do you think Dick Law has to keep ringing Wenger up and asking him if it's OK to bid an extra half million?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#6644 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: London
Posts: 5,253
|
Quote:
I'm not saying he doesn't have influence. I'm saying he works in a team on these things.
Of course he will have complete control over ins and outs. That is a must in my opinion for any football manager. But does he have complete control over exactly how much players are bought and sold for? I seriously doubt that. There will be an agreed budget for transfers, and an agreed policy on wages. Those agreements are made between Wenger and the other internal parties involved. Gazidis etc. Do you think Dick Law has to keep ringing Wenger up and asking him if it's OK to bid an extra half million? The other thing to consider is his total stubborness. Take Walcott for example. He could have made a whack of money on him, brought in a new striker or 2 and tried something different. A much more pro-active manager would have done something like this. Look at Pep at City, he's just discarded Hart. It's not a personal thing but footballing. Wenger hangs on to players for dear life when it's quite clear that it's not going to work out. Bendtner, Diaby, Denilson, Almunia and so on. He hates being proven wrong. He'll do the same with Ox and Wilshere come hell or high water. Then he wonders why we fall short season after season. Repeat and rinse. PS - Off topic....any betting tips for the w/e?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#6645 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: North Devon
Posts: 12,642
|
Yes, it’s an interesting discussion. To what extent AW controls transfers. There was definitely a feeling in the past that David Dein took the lead. AW would identify the player and Dein would sort out the deal. It was said Dein was good at pushing AW to make a decision and getting the transfer completed.
Sorry can’t remember the journalist or ex-player who said it but whoever it was said he knew for a fact AW was livid over the handling of the Suarez approach and offer. I think both the club and AW are their own worst enemies tbh. Gazidis needs to have a non-speaking and non-communicative role. I do think the club should overhaul its useless PR department. At least come out with a united message |
|
|
|
|
|
#6646 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 15,483
|
Quote:
Yes, it a question being asked on a lot of forums. We don’t have the cash to compete with Utd, City or Chelsea. Now as you say we don’t seem to be able to compete with Leicester, West Ham, Spurs or Liverpool.
Why? Who knows unless the club tells us. It seems to be on both transfer fees and wages we are struggling to compete with anyone. In the same way our transfer budget appears to have to cover salaries as well as the transfer fee. Got to be an underlying reason and in relative terms we see to be quibbling over minimal amounts. I mean we actually bid lower than an existing bid for Mustafi. What was that all about. |
|
|
|
|
|
#6647 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ghosts Forge
Posts: 38,995
|
Nothing ever gets done at Arsenal without Wenger's consent. Of course he has lackeys to do the nitty gritty, but he has the final say, especially when it comes to transfers.
His transfer policy has become extremely outdated. Clubs have more money, so the market has become saturated. He doesn't like doing business with "super" agents, so he won't attract the best. Not prepared to spend big because of heightened expectations. He can't find rough diamonds anymore, and the environment is so chaotic that even if a player joins Arsenal they won't necessarily improve. They will be crocked and/or lacking in defensive qualities. Since Dein left Wenger's been accountable to no-one. What football manager handpicks a new director? Peter Lawwell was interviewed for the position, but he turned it down because he didn't want to work for a control freak. Says it all. There are no football brains on the board and Stan spends half his time in the States not giving a damn about team results. Why have they allowed Wenger to go public about his contract situation and run it down? I think the Ozil and Sanchez situation is more interesting. If Wenger leaves in the summer and the board appoint an uninspiring coach, will they leave? Of course. And others will jump the ship. Ivan and co should have learnt from the Moyes situation, cut their losses with Wenger years ago and hired Guardiola or Klopp. But no..........they went all sentimental. It'll get a lot worse before it gets any better sadly. My worry is the board will bottle it and hand him another deal. If Wenger has any dignity, he'll leave ASAP. |
|
|
|
|
|
#6648 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: North Devon
Posts: 12,642
|
Apparently opened talks for Jose Gimenez http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...ing-block.html looks like price could be an issue again.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#6649 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,059
|
price is more of an issue signing Euro currency players with a post Brexit weak pound as well.
On transfers, I believe that it's not just the inflated transfer fees but that in most cases, Wenger has absolutely no idea of who he actually definitely wants and also has a huge problem dealing with agents. |
|
|
|
|
|
#6650 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Apathyville
Posts: 6,057
|
The bottom line is other teams manage to get players in, but for some reason we can't (or Wenger won't more like).
Stubborn old scrote he is, get rid of him........out, out, out of the door!!!! |
|
|
|
![]() |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 01:13.



