Lose 1-0, draw 0-0, win 1-0. Some people will moan at all of those.
Arsenal Supporters Thread (Part 16)
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Originally Posted by Armi:
“Lose 1-0, draw 0-0, win 1-0. Some people will moan at all of those.”
“Lose 1-0, draw 0-0, win 1-0. Some people will moan at all of those.”
Probably because regardless of which of those results we get, it doesn't count for shit, in the overall season.
Originally Posted by Armi:
“Lose 1-0, draw 0-0, win 1-0. Some people will moan at all of those.”
“Lose 1-0, draw 0-0, win 1-0. Some people will moan at all of those.”
On a scale of 1-10, how happy are you with the last three games?
Perez ahead of Iwobi for the next game please. Won't happen. I bet Welbeck is preferred to Perez next.
I quite like Wellbeck in that he always puts in a shift. That said I too would like Perez to get a run in the team.
Le Grove with what I have been saying all along http://le-grove.co.uk/2016/12/27/las...enal-thinking/
No point playing Coquelin at home against a team that sits back. Ramsey to start ahead of him and agree that Perez needs to start for Iwobi next game please. You just know Big Sam's Palace will come for a point which hopefully means we have better variation in our attack.
No point playing Coquelin at home against a team that sits back. Ramsey to start ahead of him and agree that Perez needs to start for Iwobi next game please. You just know Big Sam's Palace will come for a point which hopefully means we have better variation in our attack.
Originally Posted by Wouter:
“On a scale of 1-10, how happy are you with the last three games?”
“On a scale of 1-10, how happy are you with the last three games?”
We were all over them yesterday, and won the match. Yeah, ok, we lost the two games before that, and nobody likes losing, but leading up to that we won 9 and drew 3.
All in all, in the last 15 games we've won ten, drawn three and lost two. That's good form. Certainly no reason for anyone to be moaning and slagging the manager. But as I say, some people look for any opportunity to do that.
Some people will be happy with 4th no matter what.
Others are looking for signs of progress. Signs that lessons from previous seasons have learned.
Others are looking for signs of progress. Signs that lessons from previous seasons have learned.
Originally Posted by Armi:
“We were all over them yesterday, and won the match. Yeah, ok, we lost the two games before that, and nobody likes losing, but leading up to that we won 9 and drew 3.
All in all, in the last 15 games we've won ten, drawn three and lost two. That's good form. Certainly no reason for anyone to be moaning and slagging the manager. But as I say, some people look for any opportunity to do that.”
“We were all over them yesterday, and won the match. Yeah, ok, we lost the two games before that, and nobody likes losing, but leading up to that we won 9 and drew 3.
All in all, in the last 15 games we've won ten, drawn three and lost two. That's good form. Certainly no reason for anyone to be moaning and slagging the manager. But as I say, some people look for any opportunity to do that.”
I'd say that we're on an OK run, but losing two games from winning positions is disappointing in my book. Draws against spuds and boro, and the loss against Pool (at home!) isn't good enough. Apart from that, we were lucky with the draw at Old Trafford and the win against Burnley. All in all, we're doing OK but we could and should have done better.
Originally Posted by ustarion:
“Some people will be happy with 4th no matter what.
Others are looking for signs of progress. Signs that lessons from previous seasons have learned.”
“Some people will be happy with 4th no matter what.
Others are looking for signs of progress. Signs that lessons from previous seasons have learned.”
Of course every Arsenal fan wants to finish first, but it's a competitive league, where enormous sums of money are spent, and it's very difficult to win. I think some people need to give respect where it's due in regard to Wenger's league record - all things considered.
3rd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd.
Originally Posted by Armi:
“Of course every Arsenal fan wants to finish first, but it's a competitive league, where enormous sums of money are spent, and it's very difficult to win. I think some people need to give respect where it's due in regard to Wenger's league record - all things considered.
3rd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd.”
“Of course every Arsenal fan wants to finish first, but it's a competitive league, where enormous sums of money are spent, and it's very difficult to win. I think some people need to give respect where it's due in regard to Wenger's league record - all things considered.
3rd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd.”
I take what you're saying but how has Wenger moved things on over the last six or so years in terms of tactics, training etc?
Originally Posted by Armi:
“Of course every Arsenal fan wants to finish first, but it's a competitive league, where enormous sums of money are spent, and it's very difficult to win. I think some people need to give respect where it's due in regard to Wenger's league record - all things considered.
3rd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd.”
“Of course every Arsenal fan wants to finish first, but it's a competitive league, where enormous sums of money are spent, and it's very difficult to win. I think some people need to give respect where it's due in regard to Wenger's league record - all things considered.
3rd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd.”
Well for me it's more than where we finish. He's is or was the highest paid manager around and yet with all those top four finishes we haven't once in recent years threatened to win it. It's not the money but the apparent comfort zone the club is in. The money others have is not the reason we have underperformed in matches when it really counts. The last ten years have been so consistently predictable. The recent two defeats could have been from any of the last few years. Go ahead and then concede and go behind.
Heads drop and absolutely nothing happens to change it. It's that which frustrates so many. Not the losing but the way we lose. Added to that the same excuses given time after time. I suppose for me it is seeing other managers being able to change things during a game whereas it's always just more of the same with us.
I think most of us just want to see us look as if we really want to win it.
Heads drop and absolutely nothing happens to change it. It's that which frustrates so many. Not the losing but the way we lose. Added to that the same excuses given time after time. I suppose for me it is seeing other managers being able to change things during a game whereas it's always just more of the same with us.
I think most of us just want to see us look as if we really want to win it.
Originally Posted by DavidT:
“Well for me it's more than where we finish. He's is or was the highest paid manager around and yet with all those top four finishes we haven't once in recent years threatened to win it. It's not the money but the apparent comfort zone the club is in. The money others have is not the reason we have underperformed in matches when it really counts. The last ten years have been so consistently predictable. The recent two defeats could have been from any of the last few years. Go ahead and then concede and go behind.
Heads drop and absolutely nothing happens to change it. It's that which frustrates so many. Not the losing but the way we lose. Added to that the same excuses given time after time. I suppose for me it is seeing other managers being able to change things during a game whereas it's always just more of the same with us.
I think most of us just want to see us look as if we really want to win it.”
“Well for me it's more than where we finish. He's is or was the highest paid manager around and yet with all those top four finishes we haven't once in recent years threatened to win it. It's not the money but the apparent comfort zone the club is in. The money others have is not the reason we have underperformed in matches when it really counts. The last ten years have been so consistently predictable. The recent two defeats could have been from any of the last few years. Go ahead and then concede and go behind.
Heads drop and absolutely nothing happens to change it. It's that which frustrates so many. Not the losing but the way we lose. Added to that the same excuses given time after time. I suppose for me it is seeing other managers being able to change things during a game whereas it's always just more of the same with us.
I think most of us just want to see us look as if we really want to win it.”
^This.
I didn't renew my Red membership this year. Mostly financial reasons. Only once or twice all season have I missed going. Everything is so stale. If you google our complaints, the same stuff comes up from the last umpteen seasons. Conté and Klopp have brought their players a freshness, energy and desire that ours lack, except for a few key players.
What would jolt it would be bad news for the club - Alexis and/or Ozil not renewing; missing out on the CL, that sort of thing.
I want us to win, and if we can't win the PL and CL, at least actively compete, not capitulate yet again.
I think a lot stems from the owners. Top four is good enough. If we happen to win something that's good but it's not particularly important in the great scheme of things. I think that attitude now pervades throughout the club. None of Kroenke's franchises do a lot apart from make money.
If Ozil and Sanchez do leave we will once again be pretty much back to square one instead of building on what we have.
If Ozil and Sanchez do leave we will once again be pretty much back to square one instead of building on what we have.
Originally Posted by DavidT:
“I think a lot stems from the owners. Top four is good enough. If we happen to win something that's good but it's not particularly important in the great scheme of things. I think that attitude now pervades throughout the club. None of Kroenke's franchises do a lot apart from make money.
If Ozil and Sanchez do leave we will once again be pretty much back to square one instead of building on what we have.”
“I think a lot stems from the owners. Top four is good enough. If we happen to win something that's good but it's not particularly important in the great scheme of things. I think that attitude now pervades throughout the club. None of Kroenke's franchises do a lot apart from make money.
If Ozil and Sanchez do leave we will once again be pretty much back to square one instead of building on what we have.”
If I was either one of these two there's no way I'd waste my best years in this team with this manager.
They will join a long list of world class players who had to leave to win trophies.
Originally Posted by DavidT:
“Well for me it's more than where we finish. He's is or was the highest paid manager around and yet with all those top four finishes we haven't once in recent years threatened to win it. It's not the money but the apparent comfort zone the club is in. The money others have is not the reason we have underperformed in matches when it really counts. The last ten years have been so consistently predictable. The recent two defeats could have been from any of the last few years. Go ahead and then concede and go behind.
Heads drop and absolutely nothing happens to change it. It's that which frustrates so many. Not the losing but the way we lose. Added to that the same excuses given time after time. I suppose for me it is seeing other managers being able to change things during a game whereas it's always just more of the same with us.
I think most of us just want to see us look as if we really want to win it.”
“Well for me it's more than where we finish. He's is or was the highest paid manager around and yet with all those top four finishes we haven't once in recent years threatened to win it. It's not the money but the apparent comfort zone the club is in. The money others have is not the reason we have underperformed in matches when it really counts. The last ten years have been so consistently predictable. The recent two defeats could have been from any of the last few years. Go ahead and then concede and go behind.
Heads drop and absolutely nothing happens to change it. It's that which frustrates so many. Not the losing but the way we lose. Added to that the same excuses given time after time. I suppose for me it is seeing other managers being able to change things during a game whereas it's always just more of the same with us.
I think most of us just want to see us look as if we really want to win it.”
Good post. What grates me is his tactical naivety in the top level CL and big PL games. He isn't proactive enough to change something when the opposition changes tactics mid game and usually uses substitutions like for like or add an extra forward when we need a goal. We have the players to compete but not the manager unfortunately.
For a few years now I have thought that he is incapable of winning the PL/CL and just enjoy our infrequent good performances. Football has changed and unfortunately Wenger has not moved with it.
He is only there to maintain the status quo of top 4. I doubt that's enough to keep the likes of Alexis and Ozil at the club.
It would be interesting to know what targets he's set each season. At Utd, City, Chelsea it's to win the PL/CL and if not you are gone. I do think that's the difference, their owners are there to win things. Genuinely not sure that's the case with us.
For the last 4+5 years (and I accept that includes 2 FA cup wins) Arsenal have followed a pattern, start well, have a bit of a bad run with a few more fans starting to question the judgement of Mr Wenger then performheroically in a big champions league or premier league game but come up short. Then have a good run. Arsenal having bottled it in the ltwo league games against Everton and City have 6 very winnable league games coming up. winning the first one They will probably will all of them to be thought as title challengers then lose at Chelsea........And lets not forget 1-1-16 Arsenal top of the league only to finish 10 points adrift. The Tottenham "collapse" got Wenger out of jail last season..
Originally Posted by DUHO:
“For the last 4+5 years (and I accept that includes 2 FA cup wins) Arsenal have followed a pattern, start well, have a bit of a bad run with a few more fans starting to question the judgement of Mr Wenger then performheroically in a big champions league or premier league game but come up short. Then have a good run. Arsenal having bottled it in the ltwo league games against Everton and City have 6 very winnable league games coming up. winning the first one They will probably will all of them to be thought as title challengers then lose at Chelsea........And lets not forget 1-1-16 Arsenal top of the league only to finish 10 points adrift. The Tottenham "collapse" got Wenger out of jail last season..”
“For the last 4+5 years (and I accept that includes 2 FA cup wins) Arsenal have followed a pattern, start well, have a bit of a bad run with a few more fans starting to question the judgement of Mr Wenger then performheroically in a big champions league or premier league game but come up short. Then have a good run. Arsenal having bottled it in the ltwo league games against Everton and City have 6 very winnable league games coming up. winning the first one They will probably will all of them to be thought as title challengers then lose at Chelsea........And lets not forget 1-1-16 Arsenal top of the league only to finish 10 points adrift. The Tottenham "collapse" got Wenger out of jail last season..”
Finishing in the top 4 is the 'get-out-of-jail' card every season. It is a disgrace that we finished 10 points behind Leicester last season.
Originally Posted by ustarion:
“Finishing in the top 4 is the 'get-out-of-jail' card every season. It is a disgrace that we finished 10 points behind Leicester last season.”
“Finishing in the top 4 is the 'get-out-of-jail' card every season. It is a disgrace that we finished 10 points behind Leicester last season.”
Indeed- the fact is Arsenal SHOULD have won the league last season. On January 2nd of the usual suspects ONLY City were within 9 points of them and once they started their usual run to pass "the beaten horses" come March they were 11 points behind the leaders having been 2 points top on 2-1. I would NOT continue to be a paying customer at Arsenal football club with that clubs only ambition is making the top 4 every season
Originally Posted by mialicious:
“ahem... only 3 points away from 2nd. and didn't lose any games in the CL group.”
“ahem... only 3 points away from 2nd. and didn't lose any games in the CL group.”
Maybe so, but Utd and Spuds are catching us (Spuds more so) now in PL. 'Pool have a togetherness in their squad and I cant see Chelsea losing.
Originally Posted by grimtales1:
“Maybe so, but Utd and Spuds are catching us (Spuds more so) now in PL. 'Pool have a togetherness in their squad and I cant see Chelsea losing.”
“Maybe so, but Utd and Spuds are catching us (Spuds more so) now in PL. 'Pool have a togetherness in their squad and I cant see Chelsea losing.”
played well all season except for 2-3 games..and none of those teams mentioned are in the CL. I think they would all love to be in our position.
Originally Posted by mialicious:
“played well all season except for 2-3 games..and none of those teams mentioned are in the CL. I think they would all love to be in our position.”
“played well all season except for 2-3 games..and none of those teams mentioned are in the CL. I think they would all love to be in our position.”
I ALWAYS look for Arsenals last 6/8 games of the season before a ball is kicked as they come with a late run every year to paper over the widening cracks. This season that may well be harder. They have WHU, Sunderland, MUFC and Everton at home and Palace, Boro, THFC & Stoke away. Certainly cannot see them winning 7 out of 8 there so the top 4 fight may well be harder this time
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