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Arsenal Supporters Thread (Part 16)


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Old 07-09-2015, 17:37
satellite
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There's absolutely nothing machiavellian about it. It's simply the manager treating the fans with contempt again. Unfortunately that has been a feature of his reign for a long time.
Yep, let's face it - it's not the first time & won't be the last.
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Old 07-09-2015, 17:39
robborocks
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In what way do you believe he is treating the fans with contempt?
Very light upfront before the welbeck injury, he chose not to buy anyone and then announced the injury after window is closed.
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Old 07-09-2015, 18:34
Gort
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"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Quoting the above, I'm just pointing out that there's more ways to interpret things than seeing Wenger as deliberately trolling the fans. Sure, Wenger isn't stupid, but that doesn't mean he's immune to doing stupid things. Not signing up another forward is not exactly a clever move, particularly seeing we're now short up front... again.
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Old 07-09-2015, 18:43
sotek
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"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Quoting the above, I'm just pointing out that there's more ways to interpret things than seeing Wenger as deliberately trolling the fans. Sure, Wenger isn't stupid, but that doesn't mean he's immune to doing stupid things. Not signing up another forward is not exactly a clever move, particularly seeing we're now short up front... again.
I think that is a very relevant maxim to always keep in mind but I'm not sure it applies in this case. Why tell the fans (and the world) via the Arsenal press office that Welbeck will be out for only a few months when the England manager believes (and let's be honest, it's far more likely) that it will be for most of the season. That's not stupidity, it's contempt by trying to mitigate the amount of negative reaction.
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Old 07-09-2015, 19:10
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I suppose it could be both. Still, until confirmed, I'll hedge my bets.
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Old 07-09-2015, 19:20
ustarion
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Supporters of Wenger don't believe Arsenal are capable of winning the Premier League or challenging for the Champions' League. That's were the difference of viewpoint comes in.
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Old 08-09-2015, 08:09
Elyan
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Very light upfront before the welbeck injury, he chose not to buy anyone and then announced the injury after window is closed.
Yes I think you are right. He chose not to buy just 'anyone'. I'd prefer he tried to buy top drawer players or nothing at all. That's what he did. I'd prefer he brought back Akpom if we are that short - rather than buying an ordinary player.

As for announcing it after the window closed - I gave my thoughts on the reasons for that earlier. I think he didn't want to weaken his bargaining position on a new striker by announcing that one of his current ones was out injured for months.
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Old 08-09-2015, 08:26
Elyan
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Supporters of Wenger don't believe Arsenal are capable of winning the Premier League or challenging for the Champions' League. That's were the difference of viewpoint comes in.
I disagree.

I think we are capable of challenging for the title, but we have to do everything exactly right in order to be able to achieve it. We cannot compete with some of our competitors on the spending front. Man City spent heavily again - £100m on just two of their signings alone this year. Chelsea also have money to burn. An example of their activities is they bought Schurlle and it didn't work out so they binned him, then they bought Cuadrado and that didn't work out so they binned him. Then they went and bought Pedro. If that doesn't work out they'll bin him and buy another. All players for the same position - and large sums of money on each. We can't afford to do that. We have to get the signing right.

But, if we do that, and we get a bit of luck, I think we can win the title again, and challenge for the CL.
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Old 08-09-2015, 09:01
robborocks
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Yes I think you are right. He chose not to buy just 'anyone'. I'd prefer he tried to buy top drawer players or nothing at all. That's what he did. I'd prefer he brought back Akpom if we are that short - rather than buying an ordinary player.

As for announcing it after the window closed - I gave my thoughts on the reasons for that earlier. I think he didn't want to weaken his bargaining position on a new striker by announcing that one of his current ones was out injured for months.
I'd prefer top drawer too, but we're stuck with Giroud (a player Wenger bought that is clearly not top drawer).
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Old 08-09-2015, 09:02
Elyan
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Interesting information. Nothing we didn't already know - but here it is.

Average annual spend on transfer fees over the past five years:

Man City £94.5m
Chelsea £94.2m
Man Utd £88m
Liverpool £70m
Arsenal £50m
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Old 08-09-2015, 09:28
Goodwin
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We have to get the home form back on track, it's been shocking lately, going back to the tail end of last season. I see another frustrating afternoon against Stoke City.
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Old 08-09-2015, 09:32
Elyan
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I'd prefer top drawer too, but we're stuck with Giroud (a player Wenger bought that is clearly not top drawer).
I agree. But if no top drawer player was available, I'd prefer we didn't buy another Giroud or worse.

Every club and every manager buys players who don't quite work out. But as I say, some of our competitors can afford to chuck them away and just buy another willy nilly. We unfortunately can't.
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Old 08-09-2015, 09:37
Elyan
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We have to get the home form back on track, it's been shocking lately, going back to the tail end of last season. I see another frustrating afternoon against Stoke City.
Stoke's in-game form has been a bit patchy. They look pretty vulnerable at times. Let's hope we can exploit that.

I don't think they'll park the bus. That will be in our favour.
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Old 08-09-2015, 13:30
Elyan
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Canal+ are reporting that Koscielney got crocked on international duty and will be out for our next game.
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Old 08-09-2015, 14:11
NightHawk123
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Canal+ are reporting that Koscielney got crocked on international duty and will be out for our next game.
He was fit enough for the bench albeit an unused sub.
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Old 08-09-2015, 15:03
mialicious
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I'd prefer top drawer too, but we're stuck with Giroud (a player Wenger bought that is clearly not top drawer).
His strike record suggests otherwise. No wonder the guy is lacking confidence at the moment, all this talk about how he cant cut it..i think it must be because of the way he looks..but he just keeps on proving the doubters wrong. he's scored between 17-22 goals every season since he's been here.
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Old 08-09-2015, 16:41
satellite
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His strike record suggests otherwise. No wonder the guy is lacking confidence at the moment, all this talk about how he cant cut it..i think it must be because of the way he looks..but he just keeps on proving the doubters wrong. he's scored between 17-22 goals every season since he's been here.
I doubt he reads Digital Spy.
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Old 08-09-2015, 17:04
mialicious
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I doubt he reads Digital Spy.
I meant generally, in the media etc.
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Old 08-09-2015, 17:37
Wouter
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His strike record suggests otherwise. No wonder the guy is lacking confidence at the moment, all this talk about how he cant cut it..i think it must be because of the way he looks..but he just keeps on proving the doubters wrong. he's scored between 17-22 goals every season since he's been here.
If you look at how much we create vs how many he puts away, it's obvious that he should do better.
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Old 08-09-2015, 17:50
mialicious
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If you look at how much we create vs how many he puts away, it's obvious that he should do better.
So theres room for improvement..but he's still a good footballer. is not that much of a stretch to say he has 25 goals a season in him.
Fine he's not suraez or aguero..but as far PL strikers go he's up there.

If people are going to slate our strikers welbeck should surely be the target, but he seems to get an easier ride amongst pundits/fans.
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Old 08-09-2015, 17:50
sotek
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His strike record suggests otherwise. No wonder the guy is lacking confidence at the moment, all this talk about how he cant cut it..i think it must be because of the way he looks..but he just keeps on proving the doubters wrong. he's scored between 17-22 goals every season since he's been here.
The fact he was booed off the pitch for France last night suggests we aren't the only ones with severe concerns. He's not a bad player by any means but he simply isn't the lethal forward this side is crying out for.
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Old 08-09-2015, 17:54
mialicious
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The fact he was booed off the pitch for France last night suggests we aren't the only ones with severe concerns. He's not a bad player by any means but he simply isn't the lethal forward this side is crying out for.
So he's not in a rich vein of form at the moment, people know he can do better..but the season has just begun.
He was picked to start the match ahead of benzema..
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Old 08-09-2015, 18:00
robborocks
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So he's not in a rich vein of form at the moment, people know he can do better..but the season has just begun.
He was picked to start the match ahead of benzema..
I don't think he's ever been in a rich vein of form, he's good against smaller teams where we are cruising, when we need a performance against a big team he is invisible.
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Old 08-09-2015, 18:03
robborocks
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So theres room for improvement..but he's still a good footballer. is not that much of a stretch to say he has 25 goals a season in him.
Fine he's not suraez or aguero..but as far PL strikers go he's up there.

If people are going to slate our strikers welbeck should surely be the target, but he seems to get an easier ride amongst pundits/fans.
I wouldn't say he's up there, he's a mid table striker.

Its not about blaming welbeck instead, it's about there being a vast number of strikers around who are a step up from Giroud and we did nothing.
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Old 08-09-2015, 18:06
ustarion
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I disagree.

I think we are capable of challenging for the title, but we have to do everything exactly right in order to be able to achieve it. We cannot compete with some of our competitors on the spending front. Man City spent heavily again - £100m on just two of their signings alone this year. Chelsea also have money to burn. An example of their activities is they bought Schurlle and it didn't work out so they binned him, then they bought Cuadrado and that didn't work out so they binned him. Then they went and bought Pedro. If that doesn't work out they'll bin him and buy another. All players for the same position - and large sums of money on each. We can't afford to do that. We have to get the signing right.

But, if we do that, and we get a bit of luck, I think we can win the title again, and challenge for the CL.
I would agree with you if this was 2008, 09, 10, 11 or even possibly 12. But we haven't looked like winning the league or Champions' League for at least 10 years. I don't think we will whilst Wenger is in charge.

I would have more respect if he was openly honest about this and admit that we are only capable of competing for the FA Cup and stop offering false hope.
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