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Clara's Paradox (spec)


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Old 06-05-2015, 19:49
star89
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Fair enough if that's your view of him, I won't argue on that. But I far from agree though. I just saw him as an abusive, short fused prat who Clara had to be wary around. See their date on episode 4 as an example. Never bought the romance for one minute. It was the only fault I had with series 8.
Danny was a dick, plain and simple. Controlling, manipulative and abusive at times. But then so was Clara to him, and so was the Doctor to them both. As was Amy to Rory in her day. Gotta just roll with it I suppose.
I thought I was the only one who thought like this. I remember watching the end scene of the Caretaker (I think it was.. the chat on the sofa?) and that just made me go 'Hmmm something not right there.'
I don't think for one minute that's what the writers planned or had in mind but it did make me think 'potential abusive relationship.' I wasn't even sure why but it did.
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Old 06-05-2015, 22:22
Whoswho1
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They might not of liked another but by the end doctor and Danny did like and respect eachother . Doctor would not of approved if Danny was not a good man.
Nope, danny did not like or respect the doctor> he disliked him very much.
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Old 06-05-2015, 23:24
GDK
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Nope, danny did not like or respect the doctor> he disliked him very much.
Correct. At the beginning. Neither liked each other. But Sara said "by the end".

Danny had a problem with authority figures (specifically the "officer class") because they'd let him down during his time in the Army. He saw the Doctor at first in the same way.

The Doctor had a problem with soldiers - to the extent he insulted, abused and picked on (unfairly) ordinary soldiers. Misdirected abuse in my view and a misstep by the writers. He should have been picking on the leaders and the officer class. It was wrong to have the Doctor pick on "grunts". He wouldn't be so unfair.

Another reason I didn't warm to 12 until Last Christmas.

But that had improved by the end and I think they came to have respect for each other's integrity.
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Old 06-05-2015, 23:33
GDK
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I thought I was the only one who thought like this. I remember watching the end scene of the Caretaker (I think it was.. the chat on the sofa?) and that just made me go 'Hmmm something not right there.'
I don't think for one minute that's what the writers planned or had in mind but it did make me think 'potential abusive relationship.' I wasn't even sure why but it did.
I didn't think that for a minute. He cared for Clara and wanted to protect her, so he argued with her and tried to persuade her not to do something dangerous (i.e. travel with the Doctor, and yes, he probably saw the Doctor as a threat to his and Clara's relationship as well) and, above all, he wanted Clara to be honest with him.

Travelling with the Doctor is, at the very least, life changing and very often life threatening. So why would you not wish to argue with someone you cared for to try to stop them doing something dangerous?

"You wanna stick your hand in the fire? Sure, go for it." Not very caring is it?

"For god's sake don't stick your hand in fire!!" shows more caring.
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Old 06-05-2015, 23:36
Lewis Christian
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I thought I was the only one who thought like this. I remember watching the end scene of the Caretaker (I think it was.. the chat on the sofa?) and that just made me go 'Hmmm something not right there.'
I don't think for one minute that's what the writers planned or had in mind but it did make me think 'potential abusive relationship.' I wasn't even sure why but it did.
Yep, that's a scene that didn't sit comfortably with me either. Ugh.
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Old 07-05-2015, 09:14
johnnysaucepn
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(Snuggling on the sofa in front of the television.)
CLARA: So, what do you think of him now?
DANNY: Of the Doctor?
CLARA: Yeah. See, he's all right, isn't he, really, underneath it all.
(She turns the television off with the remote.)
CLARA: Okay. Tell me what you're thinking.
DANNY: I know men like him. I've served under them. They push you and make you stronger, till you're doing things you never thought you could. I saw you tonight. You did exactly what he told you. You weren't even scared. And you should have been.
CLARA: I trust him. He's never let me down.
DANNY: Fine. If he ever pushes you too far, I want you to tell me, because I know what that's like. You'll tell me if that happens, yeah?
CLARA: Yeah, it's a deal.
DANNY: No. It's a promise.
CLARA: Okay. I promise.
DANNY: And if you break that promise, Clara, we're finished.
CLARA: Don't say that.
DANNY: I'm saying it because if you don't tell me the truth, I can't help you. And I could never stand not being able to help you. We clear?
CLARA: Yes. We're clear.
(They snuggle down again and she turns the television back on.)
He never, at any point, told her what she could and couldn't do. He asked her to be honest with him (which is not an unreasonable request, especially given her history of lying to him), and to promise to tell him if the Doctor pushes her too far, so he can help.

He's a man shaped by his history, and no doubt his worldview is coloured by that - he's seen what happens when you follow orders without questioning, and knows the risks to Clara. But he never attempts to stop her, despite the number of times he provokes the Doctor into showing his true colours to her.
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Old 07-05-2015, 12:37
GDK
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Well said, johnnysaucepn. You expressed it far better than I did.

DANNY: And if you break that promise, Clara, we're finished.
I think that's the quote that people who follow the abuse/control freakerey line about Danny have focussed on. Focussed on too much in my opinion.

And then confirmation bias does the rest.
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Old 07-05-2015, 14:00
johnnysaucepn
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In fact, Danny's very argument is that it's the Doctor that's abusive and manipulative, pushing Clara to take risks that she shouldn't. Given the way the Doctor withholds information, abandons Clara without explanation and forces her to make decisions he doesn't want to, it's hard not to understand his point.
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Old 07-05-2015, 19:40
Lewis Christian
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For me, it's also the way Jenna and Sam play that scene, in addition to the dialogue. But hey. Each to his own interpretation. Be dull if we all saw or assumed the same thing.
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Old 07-05-2015, 19:56
sebbie3000
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I thought these were Clara's paradox.
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