Something involving kangaroo testicles.

If someone knows your deepest darkest secrets (and when Babe first turned up they seemed very close) and then they threaten you like that it's time to worry!!!


I have a feeling that Babe is still a virgin. She held a candle for one man for 50 or so years, it doesn't sound like she was a looker and if any men did approach her romantically/get too close she might have chased them off because she was still dreaming about Stan. I don't think she's even had sex never mind a baby.


BIB: I was wondering why Mick and Linda were so mad at her for doing that? Glad it wasn't just me! I'm afraid if I'd been Linda I'd have been cheering her on! And like you say she's quite happy to buy her way in so what's the problem? They'd rather have Shirley than Babe? Ridiculous!


I totally agree with the rest of your post just wanted to highlight that part in particular.

Babe does the best evil face ever

That is very true, I wonder if Babe has something over Shirley or whether Shirley just knows what Babe is capable of. She did look pretty rattled though and Shirley hardly ever looks rattled by someone!



I though the exact same thing.




I don't think they were just mad at Babe for doing that but the manipulation that went along with it. To be honest, I would say it would be worse to have Babe in the fold - with Shirley, you know what her intentions are, she is pretty upfront whereas Babe is cunning and manipulative - though I don't think anyone in the family, aside from Shirley, is quite aware of just how much.

Whatever Babe's secret is Stan told Cora and somehow Heathers mother is involved.

I agree - i'm sure Babe knows more about the family and shirley especially than she has let us know so far. As always, shirley assumes she can treat people like shit and they will take it and not fight back with their knowledge of her (Kevin, Phil, Stan, Babe) which could make her look bad to her family or even land her in strife with the Police and now somebody that she knows can be ruthless has threatened to get her. No wonder she is scared.

I agree she is a virgin. She has spent her life waiting for Stan to notice her, when he was with Sylvie, after Sylvie left him, even when Cora was on the scene. Then she was in the Navy for ages, not exactly a dating site as members aren't meant to have relationships with each other. She is not, with the best will in the world, the most attractive woman in the world and as you say, she might have rejected any offers she did get.

I think many people now would find it unbelievable that anybody could never have had sex but sex before marriage was still a no, no for many people until at least the 70s and by the time it became 'okay' many women were considered 'past it' and the men of the right age that might be interested in them were already taken.

My mother had several friends who due to studying at University and then actually getting a career in the 50s and 60s kind of missed the boat and never married and either did remain virgins or became long term mistresses to a man.

Could Babe be Hev's real mum? Maybe George Michael's too. Can you imagine how pissed off Hev would be to die never knowing that?

I do wonder if it is something to do with Heather, hurting shirley through her given we now know she was in cahorts with Queenie (who was at least emotionally abusive) but I doubt she was her Mum. Would that really hurt Shirley that much, finding out Hev was actually her cousin?

Shirley is upfront in her actions, that's how she differs to Babe. She didn't have to create a situation for Mick and Linda to need her to buy into the Vic. It wasn't down to her that they needed the money.

Babe goes about things in a sneaky underhand way and has been manipulating the family for years because she is jealous of her sister. I don't believe she is some cuddly old woman who just wants to belong. Her manipulative behaviour would continue even with a share in the pub.

Shirley, contrary to what some say, did work behind the bar and for the majority of time has gotten on fine with the family including Linda. Babe always seems to be scheming against them.

Shirley didn't play Nancy and Lee off against Linda, in fact she refused to tell Nancy what was going on when Mick and Linda vanished after Christmas. If she was playing them off she would have got Dean's side of the story in first.


I read that they offer to buy Shirley out so it seems they want neither.

Brilliant post. Spot on.

I think it would make Shirley feel terrible guilt given how awful she treated heather. I hope it is that.

I'm glad she is having a break, but am guessing she'll serve up something nasty on her return

Shirley: Ere Babe, this trifle is a bit chewy.

If it does have to do with Queenie and Heather, I'd love to see Cheryl Fergison appear as Heather in a dream of Shirley's. That doesn't seem to be done much in EE. I think it would be believable (I dream on a occasion of my father and a friend from school, both of whom are dead), would tie in nicely to whatever went on with Babe and Queenie, and wonderful to see Heather again.

I think it would just make shirley anfier at the people she blames for Heather's death. She has never shown any guilt at how she treated Heather in life or protecting Phil for his role in the cover up, just spouted bile at people like Ian for not coming forward as soon as they know so i fail to see how discovering they are related would make a difference.

Oh except she'd probably feel a 'right' towards George And try and get him off Darren and Jodie.

Didn't Heather's death followed by her discovery that Ben was behind it absolutely wreck Shirley at one stage? I remember those episodes where she was wasted, slumped outside the Vic and Denise and Christian helped her back to the B&B. I think Denise suggested that she leave Walford to start afresh.

Last year when Ben returned and Shirley confronted him, she was later talking to Dean upstairs, saying that everything good her in life was taken away. She was obviously referring to Heather. I don't know if that was a roundabout way of saying that she has guilt for how she sometimes treated her, but it's a reminder that Heather was one the very few people who brought out the gentler and livelier qualities of Shirley.

Nothing short of murder will be sufficient

Babe's going to cut off Shirley's Brillo pad, use it to clean skidmarks off the toilet bowl and then nail it to the Queen Vic front door!

So is this 'Queenie' Heather's mum then? I assumed she was some off screen person from the past or maybe another family member.

I think there might be a three hander episode between Cora, Babe and Shirley. Babe could threaten to expose Shirley for something and Cora appears with her silver bullets for Babe. I wonder who would come out on top? Probably Cora will get one over on Babe and Shirley wins out too.

I don't think Shirley has any reason to beat herself up over Heather. Shirley loved and cared about Heather and most of the time was a good friend to her. The bad bits nowhere near outweigh the good - it really is a case of magnifying a few incidents to get this picture of Shirley being relentlessly awful to her.

One particular incident gets blown out of proportion, the one where Heather and George were 'homeless' and Shirley turned her back on them. Except she didn't, she dealt with Phil who needed her help more, before going back to Heather and sorting her a place to stay with Minty. Heather and George were homeless for all of an afternoon and it was Heather's fault they lost the flat in the first place. Shirley shouldn't have snapped at her but she is only human and in that split second had to make a choice, she could only spread herself so thin. Also, I don't subscribe to the view that Shirley was responsible for Heather, they were only friends after all.

Shirley also let Heather move in with her twice, the second time when she was living with Phil against his wishes as well as giving her a job. I'm sure odd scenes could be picked out where Shirley was off with Heather but these are largely outnumbered by ones that showed she did care about her. Any ribbing was usually the good-natured sort and Hev knew what she was like, they bounced off each other. If anyone was really nasty or abusive to Heather, Shirley would come to her defence. Like the time she pied the waitress in fargos for being rude about her and attacked the guy who mocked her in Brighton.

If Shirley should feel guilty for anything, it shouldn't be how she treated Heather when she was alive, it's not grassing on Phil to the police. I don't think that in any way cancels out all she did for Heather but it did make her look bad. It's another case of a character's integrity being sacrificed for Phil.

She's gonna expose Shirley's true identity as......Yvonne Atkins

Of course!

Shirley is really Yvonne Atkins and she's STILL on the run from jail all this time!

Mind you, Babe has room to talk because SHE is AWOL from HMP Larkhall and all!

TPTB are prepared to destroy any character in order to make their God looks good.

If all the characters from Oz arrived on Albert Square TBTB would ensure that the Philth would be 'owning' them within five minutes.

I'm wondering what secret Shirley possibly has that can be any worse than all the recent ones that have just come out.