|
||||||||
Legends of Tomorrow - US Pace - Spoilers tagged |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#276 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wolf359
Posts: 96,648
|
Quote:
Ah, my mistake, I thought you had confused characters.
Still, I'm not convinced that changing the events of the past have specific repercussions in the future. The show writers don't seem to have set up their timeline rules all too well at the minute. I think the major thing will be if the team remember them or not. |
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#277 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 36,990
|
If they thought just kill Rip before he put the team together.
They should all go back to the moment they met him with no memory of him or what they did. |
|
|
|
|
|
#278 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Dagenham Essex UK
Posts: 9,713
|
Quote:
If they thought just kill Rip before he put the team together.
They should all go back to the moment they met him with no memory of him or what they did. |
|
|
|
|
|
#279 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,059
|
I dread to think of the paradoxes and time issues that will creep up with the show and others with this story. If she kills a young Sara, who was on the boat with Oliver? Who told Ra's to send his daughter to the island? Once killed, Why did The Pilgrim go back in time to kill the kid? The adult never existed to cause her to be sent out to kill the kid in the first place.
The potential mess could be catastrophic and that's just Sara. |
|
|
|
|
#280 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 8,086
|
Quote:
I dread to think of the paradoxes and time issues that will creep up with the show and others with this story. If she kills a young Sara, who was on the boat with Oliver? Who told Ra's to send his daughter to the island? Once killed, Why did The Pilgrim go back in time to kill the kid? The adult never existed to cause her to be sent out to kill the kid in the first place.
The potential mess could be catastrophic and that's just Sara. |
|
|
|
|
|
#281 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,782
|
Quote:
as Mick says a few sconds before she will go to wipe out the kid versions of them...so she is see pointing a gun at the back of kid Micks head...we have no idea whether this means Mick will disappear or if she doesn't actually kill him
|
|
|
|
|
|
#282 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,601
|
Quote:
I'm pretty sure that we actually heard a shot.
Just like in this episode where we saw a guy draw a gun on Professor Stein and heard a shot only to find out that it was Snart who had shot the guy. |
|
|
|
|
|
#283 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 8,086
|
Quote:
I'm pretty sure that we actually heard a shot.
kid mick may not die in any time line and could be pilgrim just gets dead |
|
|
|
|
|
#284 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,782
|
Quote:
We heard one but did not see it so that could have been anyone firing the shot.
Quote:
kid mick may not die in any time line and could be pilgrim just gets dead
Timelords suck, no wonder the Doctor left them! ![]() Regardless, I'm not convinced here that killing their younger selves will impact the legends team; in which case it seems utterly pointless killing off their younger selves. |
|
|
|
|
|
#285 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 8,086
|
Quote:
Probably more likely that they didn't want to show the death of a child.
That would be anti climactic. She's the deadliest assassin in the timelords arsenal, and she's dead already. Timelords suck, no wonder the Doctor left them! :pRegardless, I'm not convinced here that killing their younger selves will impact the legends team; in which case it seems utterly pointless killing off their younger selves. |
|
|
|
|
|
#286 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,782
|
Lets analyze the inconsistencies here for a minute, shall we...
1) Rip Hunter wishes to rid the planet of Vandal Savage. Why? Because Vandal Savage is a tyrant that killed Rip Hunters family. If his mission is a success, then his family will never die, but then will he ever then need to assemble a team in an attempt to defeat Vandal Savage? Enter Paradox. 2) For every significant change in the past, the future is also in change. This being the case, by that very definition, every change our Legends make ultimately (should) change the timeline perspective of the Timelords; unless they're somehow protected by temporal shielding. 3) Mick Rory is Kronos. What would have happened if Mick had been shot and killed by Kronos during one of his attacks? He'd be wiping a previous version of himself from existence; something that he's seemingly attempted already. Had he done that, would he have wiped himself out, or would he have further been protected by temporal shielding. 4) If a Legend is killed in their past life, do they seize to exist, or are they also protected by the same temporal shielding that would seemingly protect the timelords? Furthermore, if a Legend is recruited from the future (Connor Hawke?) and the future is altered, what becomes of that person? They're essentially out of time. 5) We know that memories (of the team at least) remain in tact, case in point here is Snart and the memories he has of his father. When Stein nearly messed up his past, his wedding ring vanished, but his recollection of what was true remained. This is why I think that an assassin killing the younger legends will ultimately have no effect on the team, so it baffles me why she'd even bother. If it's the timelords goal to stop Rip and his team by killing off the team when they're younger, yet the crew will survive anyway (likely case) than ultimately, there serves little purpose (aside from maybe emotional trauma/knowledge) of bothering. 6) if the Timelords are that strict on the timeline, then why didn't they stop Eobard Thawne from traveling back in time and killing Barry's mother? Speaking of Speedsters, if Vandal Savage is that much of a Tyrant, why are there no Speedsters heading to the future in order to help stop him? He's immortal, not super-powered. 7) Other than Kendra, Carter and Rip, why exactly is everyone else still on this mission? They're essentially all fighting Savage because Rip says he needs to be stopped. 8) These time ships can travel into outer space. Okay. Take us to Krypton! .....seems I've just gone on a random rant about the inconsistencies of time travel here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#287 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,059
|
You missed one.
Where are the Time Wraiths in all this time travel? Probably to do with the "right way" that Eobard talked about when discussing Barrys wrong way of time travelling. |
|
|
|
|
#288 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wolf359
Posts: 96,648
|
Quote:
You missed one.
Where are the Time Wraiths in all this time travel? Probably to do with the "right way" that Eobard talked about when discussing Barrys wrong way of time travelling. Would complicate things too much for the writers. |
|
|
|
|
|
#289 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,782
|
Quote:
You missed one. Where are the Time Wraiths in all this time travel?
Quote:
Probably to do with the "right way" that Eobard talked about when discussing Barrys wrong way of time travelling.
Quote:
Probably don't exist in the LoT universe, even though it is meant to be the same one as The Flash.
It's plausible to assume that (a) Time Wraith (which exists within the speed force) is only a concern for speedsters that are traveling through time, and not your common time traveller. I'm also convinced that (the) Time Wraith is (or rather, was) once a speedster. We got a close up of it in the episode it was in, and it looked like it was wearing a decaying Flash/Reverse Flash mask. |
|
|
|
|
|
#290 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kingdom of Arnor
Posts: 78,227
|
Great episode, definitely my favourite so far. I'm a sucker for Westerns anyway so I'm doubly pleased this was a good one.
Loved the sequence of them walking in to town at the start and the bar fight after only being in town for 5 minutes was classic. Jonah Hex was good enough but I hope we get more of him next season. And I liked a glimpse into Rip's backstory coupled with his decision to overrule the Time Master prime directive. Kendra is so boring, though. The sooner the Savage story is dealt with the better as hopefully we can get rid of Kendra, too, and have a much better female character join the team for next season *cough*Vixen*cough*. |
|
|
|
|
|
#291 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 36,990
|
Quote:
You are right, I did miss this. However;
I figure that, much alike traditional transport (car/bike/plane/boat) there are different ways of traveling through time. Rip Hunter (and in turn, the time masters) use technology to travel through time, whereas the Speedsters (traditionally) use their speed. It's plausible to assume that (a) Time Wraith (which exists within the speed force) is only a concern for speedsters that are traveling through time, and not your common time traveller. I'm also convinced that (the) Time Wraith is (or rather, was) once a speedster. We got a close up of it in the episode it was in, and it looked like it was wearing a decaying Flash/Reverse Flash mask. |
|
|
|
|
|
#292 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,782
|
Quote:
It's based on The Black Flash which is The Grim Reaper for Speedsters as the "normal" one wasn't fast enough to catch them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#293 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 13,938
|
Quote:
The way both Rip and Jonah Hex were written you'd swear they were former boyfriends or whatever but either way, Hex worked as a guest character and it was nice to get a bit more insight into Rip as well.
![]() I thought that was an absolutely brilliant episode. So many stand out moments, the classic Gunfight at the OK Corral style walk into town, the arrival of Jonah Hex himself (loved loved loved Jonathan Schaech in the role), the reveal of the previous death of Nighthawk (Hannibal Hawkes) and the previous incarnation of Kendra in the form of wonderful actress Anna Deavere Smith playing the show's version of Cinnamon (Katherine "Kate" Manser). The whole Ray as Sheriff John Wayne, the poker game, the reveal of HG Wells (genius if somewhat quirky), the big fight scene at the end, all worked really well within the episode's central theme of what makes people heroes. Great episodes as well for both Sara and Mick Rory, who again showed some of the "wrong side of the tracks" camaraderie we've not had since the very beginning of the show - also in a bar, also resulting in a bar brawl. Regarding the time paradoxes, I don't think at any point the show has actually set out how the Time Masters work, other than that time continually wants to follow its existing path and so changing it can only happen at specific points where there are what they've generally referred to as temporal anomalies where it can be influenced. The Time Masters, and therefore Rip, the Waverider and the team, exist outside of the timeline and so aren't affected directly by what happens unless they themselves - not someone else i.e. The Pilgrim - go back into their previous existence and try to change it. I'm guessing this will be how they get round The Pilgrim being sent out to wipe out their younger selves being a time paradox. They'll exist in the same time as their younger selves, therefore affecting the outcome of what The Pilgrim is trying to do. Or some other suitably timey wimey explanation
|
|
|
|
|
#294 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Scattered
Posts: 7,444
|
Liked this one. Celia Imrie as Rip's adoptive mother, now that's a casting coup for the show. Wish we had seen a little more of her though.
Younger Rip/Michael, wouldn't want to get on his bad side. He took out the Pilgrim without barely blinking. I liked the Pilgrim as a guest baddie, even if she was taken out a little easily at the end though. Younger versions of the characters were great. Loved Mick's scenes with his younger self and Sara's younger self really showed how far she's come as a character. I forgot Quentin had hair once upon a time though. Ray and Kendra's scenes could've been a little better but they were decent enough. Nice that Jax got some much needed backstory at last. Loved his scenes with his father, 8/10 |
|
|
|
|
#295 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,464
|
^so did Daddy Jax NOT take that forget-me pill then ?
btw: Loved the 360' camera panning with all those attacks halted in time, showed just how powerful the "time-assassin's" time power thingie is. She'd be kicked herself for disregarding the kid if she hadn't been disintegrated. ![]() btw2: Not sure I buy the whole "they can only try to kill baby-us's a single time cos to try >once will invoke some timey-wimey stuff" reason against the multi-trying, but I'll give them a pass.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#296 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 8,086
|
Did they leave previous Ray there with Rips mum too, can understand the babies and Mick even but Sarah and Ray surely a bit old to happily sit there and twiddle their thumbs. Rays fiancee I assume she's going like the other loved ones and not hanging around to cause extra angst?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#297 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 8,086
|
Quote:
^so did Daddy Jax NOT take that forget-me pill then ?
btw: Loved the 360' camera panning with all those attacks halted in time, showed just how powerful the "time-assassin's" time power thingie is. She'd be kicked herself for disregarding the kid if she hadn't been disintegrated. ![]() btw2: Not sure I buy the whole "they can only try to kill baby-us's a single time cos to try >once will invoke some timey-wimey stuff" reason against the multi-trying, but I'll give them a pass. ![]() |
|
|
|
|
|
#298 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,464
|
^exactamondo
![]() Also, MrPond said something akin to "we'll leave the babies there until we've killed Randall Savage in 2040something, then we'll put 'm back and the timeline willgo back to normal" (ish) But won't reinserting the babies, undo the whole killing of Mr Randall ? I'm confused. :mybrainhurts: |
|
|
|
|
|
#299 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,782
|
Quote:
But won't reinserting the babies, undo the whole killing of Mr Randall ? I'm confused.
There is however one with the Pilgrim. It is my understanding from this episode that Baby Team was taken from time and placed under the care of foster mum to stop the Pilgrim from killing them. Okay, I got that. She's now dead though, so why can't Baby Team be restored? Why do they have to wait until they kill Savage? Makes no sense. Edit: I'm also starting to wonder whether Savage and the Time Lords are working together somehow. |
|
|
|
|
|
#300 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,601
|
Quote:
Did they leave previous Ray there with Rips mum too, can understand the babies and Mick even but Sarah and Ray surely a bit old to happily sit there and twiddle their thumbs. Rays fiancee I assume she's going like the other loved ones and not hanging around to cause extra angst?
Quote:
Killing Savage would happen in the future. The team would be restored in the past, so no, there's no consistency issue here.
There is however one with the Pilgrim. It is my understanding from this episode that Baby Team was taken from time and placed under the care of foster mum to stop the Pilgrim from killing them. Okay, I got that. She's now dead though, so why can't Baby Team be restored? Why do they have to wait until they kill Savage? Makes no sense. Edit: I'm also starting to wonder whether Savage and the Time Lords are working together somehow. Quote:
^so did Daddy Jax NOT take that forget-me pill then ?
Guess they thought that with only two weeks to live he wouldn't cause too many problems to the timeline (of course he may now live longer)
|
|
|
|
![]() |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 10:28.





Timelords suck, no wonder the Doctor left them! 

