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Old 23-04-2016, 08:10
TWS
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They never brought 2014 Ray on board the ship, he just went to a hospital in 2014 Starling City.



Rip said that even though the Pilgrim was dead the Omega Protocol was still active meaning the Time Masters would send more agents to kill the remaining younger selves.



Guess they thought that with only two weeks to live he wouldn't cause too many problems to the timeline (of course he may now live longer)
Ok but how does that make sense if they left him but took earlier Sarah and earlier Mick (unless they put them back)....as the omega protocol is still in place, if they released them why keep the babies and not the older ones or go back and get the others as babies, it's a bit half assed if you ask me
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Old 23-04-2016, 11:06
Corwin
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Ok but how does that make sense if they left him but took earlier Sarah and earlier Mick (unless they put them back)....as the omega protocol is still in place, if they released them why keep the babies and not the older ones or go back and get the others as babies, it's a bit half assed if you ask me
No it doesn't make much sense

They said something about the Omega Protocol only allowing the younger self of a target to be attacked once.

If this is correct then Ray, Mick and Sarah should be safe from it and only the three who were kidnapped as babies would be attacked if returned to the timeline.

However young Mick and young Sarah should be ok to return to their respective points in time yet they were (unlike younger Ray) kept at the Refuge.
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Old 23-04-2016, 14:12
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No it doesn't make much sense

.
my head hurts if I think about it im better off switching my brain off and just enjoying it for the romp it was...loving baby snart
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Old 23-04-2016, 20:59
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So how come Quentin remembered Sara but martins wife didn't?
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Old 23-04-2016, 21:26
James Frederick
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So how come Quentin remembered Sara but martins wife didn't?
Because Martin got pulled out of time as a Baby so it's everything after that affected.

Sara must have been 17-18 so her Dad knew her.
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Old 24-04-2016, 19:04
Eve Elle
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Ohh, that was a good episode, so glad I gave this show a chance.

Liked Sarah's corridor fight with The Pilgrim, liked the time freeze shot during the climatic battle, liked Jefferson's scenes with his dad, liked the babies, lol, there was just lots to like.

But, are they really gonna fight Savage with three babies and two children on board the time ship?
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Old 24-04-2016, 19:48
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Ohh, that was a good episode, so glad I gave this show a chance.

Liked Sarah's corridor fight with The Pilgrim, liked the time freeze shot during the climatic battle, liked Jefferson's scenes with his dad, liked the babies, lol, there was just lots to like.

But, are they really gonna fight Savage with three babies and two children on board the time ship?
They're not on the ship they're with Rips "mum" and young Rip
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Old 24-04-2016, 20:02
Eve Elle
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They're not on the ship they're with Rips "mum" and young Rip
Ohh... I just don't see why the time masters would never think of looking there. Though I guess it was explained on the show and I missed it. I mean, the team seemed to be able to see where the Pilgrim was going fairly easily, surely the time masters can do the same? Anyways, no big deal, just something I was curious about.
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Old 24-04-2016, 20:07
koantemplation
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Ohh... I just don't see why the time masters would never think of looking there. Though I guess it was explained on the show and I missed it. I mean, the team seemed to be able to see where the Pilgrim was going fairly easily, surely the time masters can do the same? Anyways, no big deal, just something I was curious about.
The so called 'Time Masters' don't seem to have mastered time that well.
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Old 24-04-2016, 20:10
Eve Elle
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The so called 'Time Masters' don't seem to have mastered time that well.
Maybe Rip is the best of a bad bunch when it comes to time mastery?
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Old 25-04-2016, 21:26
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All in all, a really solid episode.

Loved a lot of the scenes, including Ray seeing Anna again (although I wish we had seen a conversation between them), Mick calling Sara a badass, all the stuff with Jax and his dad, the backstory about Rip (Michael!), and Sara and Kendra cooing over baby Snart.

The Pilgrim was a decent adversary, too, and very attractive! A shame she ended up being a pile of ashes.

Quentin with hair!
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Old 25-04-2016, 21:36
Flash525
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Loved a lot of the scenes, including Ray seeing Anna again (although I wish we had seen a conversation between them), Mick calling Sara a badass, all the stuff with Jax and his dad, the backstory about Rip (Michael!), and Sara and Kendra cooing over baby Snart.
Anna is/was Ray's wife, right?

Now I know there's the whole "we can't change the timeline, unless it's to do with Savage, in which case we can because it involves my dead wife and child" - Rip, but not once did Ray question himself in not enabling himself to save his wife from her ultimate fate.
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Old 26-04-2016, 01:25
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Liked this one. Celia Imrie as Rip's adoptive mother, now that's a casting coup for the show. Wish we had seen a little more of her though.
Not going to lie as soon as I saw her I actually broke out into a massive smile and had a little "yes!" moment, specially when it turned out she was Rip's mother, albeit adopted.

Ok but how does that make sense if they left him but took earlier Sarah and earlier Mick (unless they put them back)....as the omega protocol is still in place, if they released them why keep the babies and not the older ones or go back and get the others as babies, it's a bit half assed if you ask me
Because the Pilgrim had tried, and failed, to kill Mick and Sara and they were the only times she could take them out.

Ohh... I just don't see why the time masters would never think of looking there. Though I guess it was explained on the show and I missed it. I mean, the team seemed to be able to see where the Pilgrim was going fairly easily, surely the time masters can do the same? Anyways, no big deal, just something I was curious about.
It exists in a secret location so it's quite possible that the majority of the Time Masters don't even know about it. It's called The Refuge so it's quite possible there's a whole different level of people who deal with finding orphan children before the Time Masters even get to know about them.

Anna is/was Ray's wife, right?

Now I know there's the whole "we can't change the timeline, unless it's to do with Savage, in which case we can because it involves my dead wife and child" - Rip, but not once did Ray question himself in not enabling himself to save his wife from her ultimate fate.
Fiancee who was killed in front of him in Star City. Resulting in him trying to create his super suit and ending up as The Atom.

Overall, I though that was another great episode, also loved the way they set up the big grand finale, they have to go to the point at which Savage conquers the Earth because they've now removed all their younger selves, minus Rip, from the timeline. It was a clever way of doing it and brining everything to a head in the futuristic big showdown we saw right in the very first original promo for the show.

I liked the Pilgrim and I loved the Maxtrix style shootout/fight scene at the end and the unexpected intervention of young hoodlam Rip. It was also cool to see younger versions of some of the Arrowverse characters, Quentin Lance having "hair" was quite amusing. Loved the nod to ARGUS as well

I don't think about the potential time paradoxes because, at the end of the day, the show can do what it likes and bend as many rules as it likes because, ultimately, if they do what they're supposed to do, they'll all go back to the point at which they left and it will all have happened anyway.

There's only a few episodes left so it's building up to the big finish and this is the first time they've actually successfully completed a mission as a team without anything going wrong!
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Old 29-04-2016, 12:25
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Interesting episode this week, bit of a concern just how easy it was to "turn" Savage's daughter.

For a TV show, the SFX were pretty good, I'm confused they they used a CGI Ray Palmer for the close ups of his face, rather than just using a close of his real face, but hey ho. I was expecting Ray to shrink down and go inside Leviathon, was fun to see quite the opposite. Kendra not being able to kill Savage was predicable and even highlighted earlier in the episode.

Why the hell they couldn't have just captured Savage previously and lock him up I don't know!? I suppose this make for more exciting TV.

Not sure what they're gonna do with the 3 episodes left though!
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Old 29-04-2016, 12:37
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Well I guess now Rip can save his wife and son; Savage is locked up, thus can't get to them (like we saw him do in the pilot).

Interesting episode this week, bit of a concern just how easy it was to "turn" Savage's daughter.
Yeah, I thought so too. Surely she'd have been aware of his tyranny long before she was shown him to be responsible for the death of her mother etc.

Not sure what they're gonna do with the 3 episodes left though!
One of the episodes (likely the next one) will no doubt be about undoing Carter's brainwashed status. Surely though, in this case, it would have been easier to kill Carter, then let him be reborn (with his memory in tact) and then kill Savage? Simples.
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Old 29-04-2016, 15:03
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This episode was such a disappointment. Kendra is finally given the perfect opportunity to take out Savage once and for all, then the writers have her chicken out by pulling one of the most contrived plots going? I'd say welcome back Carter but I'm really not sure I'd mean it. Poor Ray though.

Savage might be a charisma free villain but his daughter certainly wasn't. I liked Cassandra's scenes with Snart and I'm kind of hoping that we get to see her again.

Nice team up with Ray and Jax in this episode. Also liked Mick and Kendra's interactions too. Sara was a bit underused again though. Was worried about Stein in this one too.

Savage taunting Rip at the end was decent but overall, very disappointed with this one, 6/10
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Old 29-04-2016, 19:57
Andrew_Ballard
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I immediately thought why not kill Carter and Savage, carter will reincarnate I assume.


Either way, weak ending.
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Old 29-04-2016, 20:37
Alien28
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Well I guess now Rip can save his wife and son; Savage is locked up, thus can't get to them (like we saw him do in the pilot).

Yeah, I thought so too. Surely she'd have been aware of his tyranny long before she was shown him to be responsible for the death of her mother etc.

One of the episodes (likely the next one) will no doubt be about undoing Carter's brainwashed status. Surely though, in this case, it would have been easier to kill Carter, then let him be reborn (with his memory in tact) and then kill Savage? Simples.
BIB - you say this, but there was something about the way Savage spoke to Rip that made me wonder if he's given orders to find and kill them anyway. Since Rip's time travelling shenanigans, who knows what could have changed. Savage has certainly been aware of fact that he kills Rip's family in the future so might have made plans already.

Regarding Stein, I wonder what would have happened if he'd merged, since when they merge it appears it's Stein's mind in Jackson's body, when they split again would all the atoms and such rearrange exactly as before or would he have healed?
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Old 29-04-2016, 22:48
koantemplation
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OMG come on!!!

You have a space time ship, and what do you do? You fly right up close to the big robot thing and allow it to grab you, rather than keeping your distance from it.

rolleyes.
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Old 30-04-2016, 09:06
Schmiznurf
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I immediately thought why not kill Carter and Savage, carter will reincarnate I assume.


Either way, weak ending.
Plus add in that that Carter isn't even from her time so will have no impact on her life whatsoever, I thought it was pathetic of her to refuse to kill him because of that.
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Old 30-04-2016, 10:59
James Frederick
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They got a lot of gold to cover that mace out of one small bracelet.
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Old 30-04-2016, 12:42
Eve Elle
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OMG come on!!!

You have a space time ship, and what do you do? You fly right up close to the big robot thing and allow it to grab you, rather than keeping your distance from it.

rolleyes.
Lol, I know! All they had to do was fly higher! Or, I dunno, away even?

Even though not killing Savage was lame, I'm kinda glad Kendra didn't do it. When did super hero's become all about killing anyways?

I agree that Savage's daughter turned a little to easily. Still, I guess the plot needs advance and not get weighed down with overlong exposition.
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Old 30-04-2016, 20:19
MR_Pitkin
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This show gets more frustrating as each episode passes, it's got more holes than a colander.
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Old 03-05-2016, 18:50
Sattrega
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Cassandra reminded me a bit of Lieutenant Teeg from Farscape.

Seriously, Kendra is so useless. She's going to let the world fall to save a man that can reincarnate?! Rip is better off dumping her and going back to get Wild West Kendra, I bet she wouldn't hesitate one bit to finish off Savage.

Not only do we need the Savage storyline wrapped up this season but we need to see the back of Kendra and Carter, too. Another season of those two and their 4,000 year old relationship would make me gouge my eyes out.

Loved the Ray/giant robot fight. A kind of homage to Kaiju films I suppose which I have always been a fan of. It made me think of Ultraman, too. Link.
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Old 03-05-2016, 19:03
koantemplation
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Not only do we need the Savage storyline wrapped up this season but we need to see the back of Kendra and Carter, too. Another season of those two and their 4,000 year old relationship would make me gouge my eyes out.
Too true, Savage is the Kazon (ST Voyager) of baddies.

I would like season 2 to be a crime of the week type thing set in different times. with Kendra and Carter dead because they have killed Savage off.
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