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Legends of Tomorrow - US Pace - Spoilers tagged |
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#326 |
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Absolutely visually stunning episode, the fight between Ray's gigantic Atom and Leviathan was amazing. Overall I thought the episode was good, some plot movement and a start of the big build up for the final three episodes of the season which we know is going to come down to the wire. I got why they went the Kendra/reincarnated Carter route, it was a clever reveal for Savage to have made plans in advance in the event of Rip's team turning up again in his timeline. I also understood why she couldn't kill him, after all these guys are supposed to be heroes and to have maced him at that point would have been more murderous than a judicious end during a conflict. Also great scenes between Snart and Cassandra over their "daddy issues" and I did find it a little bit believable that she could turn on her father once she saw the reality of what he was doing instead of the harsh line she'd been brainwashed with. But it would have been better to have seen her in the earlier episode and had a gradual reveal of more of her character so that Snart's ability to get through to her and Savage's quite obvious shock and emotional betrayal at her helping them would have had more impact. However, having said that, this was a Savage centric episode that worked for once, I didn't feel quite as much like throwing things at the TV when he was on screen this time round and the build up to taking the fight right to him felt more achievable and story driven. But we did have some great Snart snark: Quote:
Sara: “Please don’t tell me the plan is to walk into Savage’s citadel and steal it off her wrist.” Snart: “Alright, I won’t tell you that.”
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#327 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Now I genuinely hope Kendra doesn't return next season, she is the only character I truly detest on the show with her recent decisions. All of this could have been avoided if she just accepted that Carter is not her Carter and belongs to a future version of herself, so leaving his mind locked would have made no difference to her whatsoever.
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#328 |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Now I genuinely hope Kendra doesn't return next season, she is the only character I truly detest on the show with her recent decisions. All of this could have been avoided if she just accepted that Carter is not her Carter and belongs to a future version of herself, so leaving his mind locked would have made no difference to her whatsoever.
And so we have the sudden but inevitable betrayal by the Time Masters, not sure how Rip and Co will be able to defeat them and Savage in the remaining episodes. Just been looking at the original trailer and I'd forgotten it showed the Flash fighting Savage's minions (presumably in 2166) along with the team. Is this something that's still going to happen I wonder or was it just something filmed for the trailer (as I believe some of the other scenes were), |
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#329 |
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Join Date: May 2012
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Better than last week's episode but Kendra/Carter probably should leave the show when Savage is inevitably taken down. I think their romance has done more to hinder the show than to actually help it.
Savage's OTT gloating, bragging, duping Ray etc was a bit eye rolling. Actually a lot. I did hate that ray was goaded into freeing him though. Working with the Time Masters, actually didn't see that coming but I should've done though as it seems obvious in retrospect. I liked the flashbacks with Jax/his mother, Stein/Clarissa, Ray/Felicity, Rip/Savage and of course, Sara/Nyssa. I loved Stein doing his best to protect Jax and having Sara/Snart being the only one clever enough not to get captured by the Time Masters as well, 7/10 |
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#330 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Kingston Upon Thames
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The show has one VERY primary flaw that it needs to fix for Season 2:
Kendra and Carter being the main "arc" of the show. It's absolutely ridiculous how utterly vacuous their chemistry is, it's impossible to believe for one second that those two are supposedly lovers, let alone lovers for eternity spanning across multiple lifetimes Not to mention that Kendra as a character makes some of the most stupid decisions, drags Ray as a character down too and is just generally all round bland, while Carter is tedious at best, the actor who plays Carter showed more signs of passion in his 20 minute screen time in "The Flash" than he has in his entire stint on this show, both of them just completely kill whatever momentum the show has going for it, their scenes often make me cringe and judging from what else I can garner from reviews and comment sections around the web, I'm not alone.That having been said, for every absolutely abysmal Kendra/Carter moment, we have some great moments with Snart and Rory as well as Jax and Stein. Plus I'm starting to warm up to both Rip AND Savage at this point, which is great. Regarding the latest episode specifically: - Ray is such a dumb-ass. - Savage had some terrific moments this week, really fleshed out his character nicely and made him much more of a viable threat. - That moment between Jax and Stein was so sad but I have a feeling a certain time travelling Speedster may fix things between them. - Carter so nearly died again and the show so nearly would have been vastly improved. - Is the show setting up Sarah as the new captain of the Waverider? |
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#331 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Edit: I'm also starting to wonder whether Savage and the Time Lords are working together somehow.
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Isn't the vast majority of the world's population dead by this point in time? I doubt future Kendra is still alive.
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And so we have the sudden but inevitable betrayal by the Time Masters, not sure how Rip and Co will be able to defeat them and Savage in the remaining episodes.
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Just been looking at the original trailer and I'd forgotten it showed the Flash fighting Savage's minions (presumably in 2166) along with the team.
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#332 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Just wondering what Kendra and Carter would do if they both died at the same time and were reborn as brother and sister ?
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#333 |
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I'm just wondering about people wondering what Kendra and Carter would do if they both died at the same time and were reborn as brother and sister...
![]() Edit: To actually answer the question though, it probably wouldn't make much difference to the outcome. The social stigma of siblings sleeping together is merely something created by our society (no doubt in some areas of the world, it's allowed or encouraged, we know, or at least can speculate it was common back in ancient times). The common reason for being against it today though is, if I'm right, genetic deficiency in offspring. Kendra and Carter will never share the same biology; they'll always be who they are, so I suppose they'd never be a true brother and sister. |
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#334 |
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 727
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Every time the 'romance' thing between the two lovers comes up the shows hits a 0, it is terrible, terrible.
It's dawning on me that this show really isn't very good, the writing is utterly balls. |
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#335 |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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It makes some sort of sense that Barry would be around at some point (time travel etc), but I wouldn't put too much faith in the trailer. In one of them, I swear both Ollie and Barry were atop the roof when Rip was assembling his team, when in actual fact, neither of them were. What I'm wondering is if the scene of the Flash and the team being attacked by a Giant Robot after defeating the minions was part of the same presentation or if it will actually be in the show. Since Barry is wearing his season 1 flash outfit I would guess they'll have had to redo the scene anyway if it is meant to be in the show. |
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#336 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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That's one of the scenes I was on about when I said it was filmed just for the trailer though it seems it was actually done for an Upfront presentation for the network to give them an idea of the show.
What I'm wondering is if the scene of the Flash and the team being attacked by a Giant Robot after defeating the minions was part of the same presentation or if it will actually be in the show. Since Barry is wearing his season 1 flash outfit I would guess they'll have had to redo the scene anyway if it is meant to be in the show. |
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#337 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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I'm just wondering...
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... Kendra and Carter will never share the same biology; they'll always be who they are, so I suppose they'd never be a true brother and sister.
akin to a Surrogate 'hosting' a fertilised egg until birth-time.Hmmm.... maybe their "reincarnations" are brought about by some fraternity of watcher-cult who've got a bunch of cloned fertilsed eggs in storage, and whenever one of the two is killed the cult remove an egg from the fridge and "pop it in" a nearby female. Then some kinda magic mumbojumbo is involved to imbue the resultant kid with the memories of past lives. QED. |
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#338 |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 13,064
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Why do all the characters insist on repeatedly calling Prince Khufu "Carter"?
Surely "Carter" was just the incarnation from our present day, the one that "Kendra" had her lame relationship with when she "awoke"? The one on the ship, the one that Kendra tried to reach through to by calling him "Carter Hall", wasn't "Carter Hall", he was <some other name I can't remember>. Anyway... This should be renamed Idiots of Tomorrow ![]() So many stupid decisions for the sake of the story (see also Arrow and The Flash), with Kendra (as always) being the worst offender. Still, it was good fun, and I loved the Time Master twist at the end. |
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#339 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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If The Flash is in it it may not be Barry it could be Bart his Grandson.
Rumours are Booster Gold will make a appreance next year.
Spoiler
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#340 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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This was one of the better Savage episodes but God, I'm so done with Kendra and Carter now. It's got to the point where I'm willing Savage to kill them both just so we can have at least some time without them on my screen!
Can't believe Ray was so dumb in this. Sure, he was pent up with emotion at the time but there was no excuse for that stupidity. Loved that Sara did visit Nyssa in Nanda Parbat. When Savage mentioned Laurel to Sara I thought for a second that he knew what had happened and was going to tell her! The Savage/Time Masters twist dawned on me as Rip was escorting him to that chamber. Still a good twist, though. And at least we get to see Sara & Snart team up to rescue the others now. Those two are great together. |
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#341 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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If The Flash is in it it may not be Barry it could be Bart his Grandson.
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When Savage mentioned Laurel to Sara I thought for a second that he knew what had happened and was going to tell her!
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#342 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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It's dawning on me that this show really isn't very good, the writing is utterly balls.
Either way, the writing is really big donkey balls! |
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#343 |
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This. It's not quite as bad as Batman V Superman, but it's up there.
Either way, the writing is really big donkey balls! Everyone (well...almost) plays their character so well and the chemistry between the team is mostly great. Stein, Jax, Sarah, Rip, Snart and Rory are all fantastic and have some great moments but then you have Kendra and Carter who have a) terribly bland actors playing the roles, b) the most unengaging character arcs I think I've ever seen, c) a pathetic love triangle that not only brings their characters down much further but also terribly affects Ray as a character too. Not to mention that Kendra and Ray both have the tendency to make some of the stupidest decisions I think I've ever witnessed and the plot often tends to rely on conveniences and the like to keep the show on a forward momentum. For instance, Savage could have been killed quite easily multiple times throughout the show but for inexplicable reasons the team (read: Kendra) decide not to. Regardless, like I said, the chemistry between the rest of the team gives it a unique charm that makes it enjoyable, even if a fair chunk of it is non-sensical and tedious. |
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#344 |
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Honestly I would agree if it weren't for one thing - the cast.
Everyone (well...almost) plays their character so well and the chemistry between the team is mostly great. Stein, Jax, Sarah, Rip, Snart and Rory are all fantastic and have some great moments but then you have Kendra and Carter who have a) terribly bland actors playing the roles, b) the most unengaging character arcs I think I've ever seen, c) a pathetic love triangle that not only brings their characters down much further but also terribly affects Ray as a character too. Regardless, like I said, the chemistry between the rest of the team gives it a unique charm that makes it enjoyable, even if a fair chunk of it is non-sensical and tedious. And, of course, Darvil, who I think is just hopelessly miscast and can't fathom who thought he had the pants for this role. |
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#345 |
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Honestly I would agree if it weren't for one thing - the cast.
Regardless, like I said, the chemistry between the rest of the team gives it a unique charm that makes it enjoyable, even if a fair chunk of it is non-sensical and tedious. Quote:
I agree. I love them all bar Kendra and Carter, and Ray. They're all really rather dreary compared to the others.
And, of course, Darvil, who I think is just hopelessly miscast and can't fathom who thought he had the pants for this role. Kendra and Carter were introduced on Arrow and Flash purely for the sake of Legends, and Rip was introduced on Legends, but I find his character to be very one dimensional; he's assembled this mighty team to defeat Savage in an attempt to save his family - that's his main concern in all of this, not the atrocities that Savage is responsible for, but just his family. This is the same universe where we know Supergirl and Flash exist (amongst other Speedsters), we also know that Bruce Wayne exists, and unless I'm mistaken, we saw Kryptonite in one episode, so Superman (or Kryptonians at least) do/did exist. Rip Hunter needs a team to help him defeat an immortal tyrant, so he collects a group of (respectfully) second rate heroes and villains to get the job done. I know the show obviously can't afford the big names, but from a logical point of view, there's no logic to be had.I am hopeful (though I fear unrealistic) that the Vandal Savage plot is wrapped up this season, enabling Kendra and Carter to retire from the team and lead a normal life somewhere. They can then (both) be replaced. |
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#346 |
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I think a lot of the problem with the likes of Kendra, Carter, Hunter and Savage is that we don't know anything about them. All the other characters have shown up before, we we know who they are, we know why they do what they do, and we know about their history. Jax is partially an exception, though he has a connection to Stein that works really well. I personally think Ray is a great character - only when he isn't thrown into a stupid romance plot. Before him and Kendra happened, his character shined for me; the scenes with him and Mick were some of the best, we got a true sense of odd loyalty between them.
Kendra and Carter were introduced on Arrow and Flash purely for the sake of Legends, and Rip was introduced on Legends, but I find his character to be very one dimensional; he's assembled this mighty team to defeat Savage in an attempt to save his family - that's his main concern in all of this, not the atrocities that Savage is responsible for, but just his family. This is the same universe where we know Supergirl and Flash exist (amongst other Speedsters), we also know that Bruce Wayne exists, and unless I'm mistaken, we saw Kryptonite in one episode, so Superman (or Kryptonians at least) do/did exist. Rip Hunter needs a team to help him defeat an immortal tyrant, so he collects a group of (respectfully) second rate heroes and villains to get the job done. I know the show obviously can't afford the big names, but from a logical point of view, there's no logic to be had.I am hopeful (though I fear unrealistic) that the Vandal Savage plot is wrapped up this season, enabling Kendra and Carter to retire from the team and lead a normal life somewhere. They can then (both) be replaced. With Rip I actually think he's had some great moments this season and he's nowhere near as one dimensional as he seems on first glance. As for the Vandal Savage plot, I'm with you, as much as I liked the actor who played Savage this week, I think I've had my fill. And if they kill off Savage then neither Hawkman or Hawkgirl are immortal anymore so I suppose that'd (possibly) be their queue to leave the show - or at the very least stop talking about their past lives... possibly. |
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#347 |
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It makes for a never ending back and forth which just makes a good chunk of the episodes feel like filler until Hawgirl or Hawkman do decide to finally end things.
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As for the Vandal Savage plot, I'm with you, as much as I liked the actor who played Savage this week, I think I've had my fill. And if they kill off Savage then neither Hawkman or Hawkgirl are immortal anymore so I suppose that'd (possibly) be their queue to leave the show - or at the very least stop talking about their past lives... possibly.
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#348 |
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If they don't defeat Savage this season, then I can't see the show lasting another season with it still being about defeating Savage.
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#349 |
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If Savage dies, what becomes of the Hawks exactly? Where is it said that once Savage is defeated, the Hawks would revert to their mortal state? Would they lose their powers along with their immortality and resurrections?
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#350 |
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It was said in the episode just before this one, right before Hawgirl chickened out of killing Savage.
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I'm unsure if they lose their powers, but I don't think they do, I think they're just able to die by any means rather than just Savage killing them.
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Not to mention that Kendra as a character makes some of the most stupid decisions, drags Ray as a character down too and is just generally all round bland, while Carter is tedious at best, the actor who plays Carter showed more signs of passion in his 20 minute screen time in "The Flash" than he has in his entire stint on this show, both of them just completely kill whatever momentum the show has going for it, their scenes often make me cringe and judging from what else I can garner from reviews and comment sections around the web, I'm not alone.

