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Old 29-01-2016, 14:23
Shawn_Lunn
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I quite liked the second part, even if we had literally everyone acting recklessly and giving Savage way too many advantages over them in this one.

Hawkman's death didn't affect me but it was done well enough and without him, it can only be good for Hawkgirl to stand out a bit more on her own, character wise.

Sara, Jackson and Stein dealing with the latter's younger self was hilarious. I also liked Ray with Heatwave and Cold in this one too.

Nice cameo from Damien in this episode. I wonder will we get a Flash villain in another episode.

Not much of Rip in this one but that wasn't strictly a bad thing, 8/10
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Old 29-01-2016, 16:51
Flash525
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I wish they had launched Legends and shown both pilot episodes on the same night, save the break in between. This episode was a lot better than the first, though I fear some people might not have accepted the first, and in turn not returned for the second.

So what is the betting for when Hawkman comes back? I'm saying he will be back the episode after next.
The next question, which Hawkman will he be? One from the past, or one from the future? Is there a Hawk in every generation?

Nice cameo from Damien in this episode. I wonder will we get a Flash villain in another episode.
Indeed. It would seem he's immortal (to some extent) too. Also, considering the nature of this show, I am fully expecting an appearance from Eobard Thawne at some point. Whether that comes with an appearance from Barry or not is anyone's guess though. We do know (via trailers) that Barry is present in at least one episode.
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Old 29-01-2016, 18:32
MR_Pitkin
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So they are going to be stuck in 1975, and of course there's never any real impact when Hawkgirk/man get killed as presumably another one shows up.

What are the rules regarding that, are there a set number of years before reincarnation?
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Old 29-01-2016, 20:37
Flash525
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What are the rules regarding that, are there a set number of years before reincarnation?
I don't think that's been established yet.

Egyptians (of ancient mythology) existed somewhere between 2500 and 5000 years ago, in various stages and such. Vandal Savage is said to be a 4000 year old immortal, and Carter (Hawkman) stated that Savage had killed him/them 205 times (now 206 in his case).

A little bit of math doesn't quite add up correctly here though, because if Savage has been around for 4000 years, and has killed Hawkman (at least) 200 times, then by default, there would be a new incarnation of him (Hawkman) every 20 years, but that can't quite be the case, because surely Savage doesn't kill each incarnation within 20 years, each and every year since their first death?

Unless at some point, he found a way to track their incarnation and from time to time, kills them as children. Either way, I suspect it's an almost instantaneous occurrence; when one incarnation dies, another is born.
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Old 29-01-2016, 21:35
Andrew_Ballard
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Wanted to like this, but it is a bit silly. Sadly I don't care a bit about the birdy people, Mr Savage is far more interesting. The freezy dude looks like Michael Shanks and the time lord dude looks like Ricky Wilson :/
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Old 29-01-2016, 21:54
F1etch
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Echo the previous comments about not feeling much for the Hawk people. I find they hinder my enjoyment of the show. Are they stuck in75 forever or just till she gets better? Talking of her, how many twists are we going to get on how to kill Savage? First it was a magic staff, then it had to be a hawk person, then an obect from their past life and now an object from the past life being held by Kendra. What next? Is she going to stab himnext week only to find "Tada, you have to stab me with a weapon from your past while reciting humpty dumpty in egyptian and touching your nose"
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Old 29-01-2016, 23:34
geobrad
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All i can say is BACK TO THE FUTURE!!!! enough said
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Old 29-01-2016, 23:49
James Frederick
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A spoiler for a future ep involving a future verson of
Spoiler
https://m.facebook.com/video_redirec...44208&__tn__=F
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Old 30-01-2016, 00:12
Yuffie
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Yeah, that episode was ok.

I know we're only two episodes in but I feel like it's missing something.
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Old 30-01-2016, 00:12
Corwin
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The next question, which Hawkman will he be? One from the past, or one from the future? Is there a Hawk in every generation?
Makes more sense to go pick one up from the future as he will already know about the mission and it won't disrupt the Timeline (as recruiting a Hawkman from the past might).

The question is when does the next Hawkman get born.

Is he born in 2016 or will he be born in 1975?

If the latter it would mean there was probably two of him walking around for a while (Carter was probably born in the mid 1980's but there would probably have been an earlier version still alive in 1975).

I'm guessing we'll be having an adventure in roughly either 2035 or 2005.


Nice cameo from Damien in this episode.
Yeah I did a double take when I saw him walking in the background at the weapons auction.


Edit
Reading the details on the above spoiler I see
Spoiler
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Old 30-01-2016, 01:02
Cadiva
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btw: methinks this show is best watched without thinking too much about the timey wimey time travel logic stuff.
That's what I've been doing, makes life much easier to just go along with the ride! I thought it was a much better episode, pacing was better, the story narrative worked and it had some fabulous set piece fights.
You can see why the CGI budget and special effects/stunts budget must be sky high though, but exceptionally well done I thought. Loved the Firestorm/nuclear bomb vacuum bit where he hoovered up all the excess energy!

Some truly brilliant ensemble work as well with the various different dynamics on the team being mixed up again from last week and it working well. Snart could well have been another Palmer if he hadn't had a villain for a father and I liked how they showed their similarities with electronic tinkering etc.

Also the revelation for Stein that he was a bit of arrogant jerk as a young adult and he's still the same now. I like the subtle messages they're delivering about peoples' motivations and personalities and how what we think we're like isn't always as nice a portrayal as we'd like.

Absolutely LOVED the Damien Darhk cameo with him looking exactly the same as he does in present day Star City.
One other thing this show has been doing well is its use of classic musical tracks during epic fight scenes and this week's episode was no different. The weapons show fight scene was an absolute cracker with a great musical beat.

Also love Wentworth Miller and Dominic Purcell, their dynamic together is so finely tuned from all their earlier stuff that they just spark off each other perfectly. Adding in Ray to that mix brought lots of humour and allowed another insight to Leonard that we've seen on the odd occasion with Barry Allen - that maybe, just maybe, life as a criminal isn't his only ambition but something he's ended up doing by default.

I was totally not expecting Carter's death either. I mean it was obvious they wouldn't be defeating Vandal Savage any time soon otherwise no show, but I wasn't expecting him to take out one of the Hawks and nearly finish the other off. It'll be interesting now to see how they pick up Falk Hentschel's character again.
There's going to be all sorts of interesting narratives around how that could go as this version of Kendra Saunders has lost HER Hawkman from her time period so is the next one going to have already found the Chay-Ara incarnation of his time period - oooh complications abound!

I thoroughly enjoyed the whole episode so I'm giving it an 8 out of 10.
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Old 30-01-2016, 01:06
Cadiva
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Echo the previous comments about not feeling much for the Hawk people. I find they hinder my enjoyment of the show.
Are they stuck in75 forever or just till she gets better? Talking of her, how many twists are we going to get on how to kill Savage?
First it was a magic staff, then it had to be a hawk person, then an obect from their past life and now an object from the past life being held by Kendra.
What next? Is she going to stab himnext week only to find "Tada, you have to stab me with a weapon from your past while reciting humpty dumpty in egyptian and touching your nose"
No they've been fairly consistent that it has to be an item from their past. The Staff was an item from their past, as was the dagger. The difference being that the dagger belonged to Chay-ara therefore she had to wield it, whereas the staff belonged to Savage (if I remember rightly) in his Hath-Set incarnation so presumably it didn't matter who killed him with that.
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Old 30-01-2016, 21:47
SilverCrown
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Still really enjoyed episode two. While it's not perfect, I just love the different characters and how they interact with each other. I hope it does get a bit better, though.

I'm glad that Chay-Ara will have some breathing space away from Khufu. Hopefully by the time they meet his new reincarnation, she'll be a lot stronger and have more knowledge of her past with him.

Best bits for me was when Martin, Jefferson and Sara were dealing with Martin's younger self. Was great!
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Old 01-02-2016, 20:51
Sattrega
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In season 3 of Arrow wasn't it said that Darhk has access to some water from the Lazarus Pit, so while not as immortal as Savage it would explain him looking the same in 1975 as he does in 2016. (loved how he dressed as a Bond villain BTW)

Anyway, another fun episode. I was surprised to see Carter bumped off so soon but with all this timey wimey stuff I too don't believe it's the last we'll see of him. Personally I didn't mind him, it's Kendra I'm having a problem with, she has the on screen presence of a plum.

Ray and Cold played well off each other, I'm enjoying their relationship. Wentworth Miller in particular seems to be having great fun chewing the scenery.

Sara/Stein/Jax: That's a great little trio. Hope we get to see more of those three together. And I have a feeling I will say this every episode - Caity Lotz is just bloody gorgeous, loved her in her 70's garb.

And Firestorm looks awesome.
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Old 05-02-2016, 14:45
Shawn_Lunn
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Rip pretty much messed up royally there, didn't he? His own recklessness put his family in danger with Vandal Savage and it was hard to care about Rip killing Savage seeing as only Kendra can do it with permanent results, right?

Shallow note though, Rip and Sara both looked hot during their undercover stints this week and I liked that the effects of Sara being raised from the dead by the Lazarus Pit are being addressed as well.

Mixing and splitting up the teams each week really works in this show's favour and so far is keeping the dynamics pretty fresh as well.

I also liked Jackson hanging out with Cold and Heatwave, even if Cold's attempts of changing his own history predictably backfired.

Some good stuff with Ray and Stein working together to save Kendra as well. 8/10
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Old 05-02-2016, 15:30
zwixxx
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Didn't the recent ep of Arrow say
Spoiler
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Old 05-02-2016, 16:24
Flash525
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Didn't the recent ep of Arrow say
Spoiler
I believe the episode of Arrow stated that Sara wouldn't die, whereas Thea would. It was likely poor wording on the part of the cast/writers.

To explain though, both Thea and Sara have bloodlust, Thea's is literally linked to her lifeforce, if she acts on her bloodlust, she lives, if she doesn't, she deteriorates. Sara has the bloodlust, but I guess she gets to choose whether she acts on it or not; she's not going to die if she doesn't.
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Old 05-02-2016, 16:47
MR_Pitkin
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Deleted, answered above
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Old 05-02-2016, 21:30
James Frederick
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Guess in this you can touch a past/future version of yourself.

I wonder if we will meet a future Flash (Bart) and see Reverse Flash in his own timeline which is 14 years before Rip went back maybe RF even works for/with Savage?
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Old 06-02-2016, 05:14
zwixxx
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I believe the episode of Arrow stated that Sara wouldn't die, whereas Thea would. It was likely poor wording on the part of the cast/writers.

To explain though, both Thea and Sara have bloodlust, Thea's is literally linked to her lifeforce, if she acts on her bloodlust, she lives, if she doesn't, she deteriorates. Sara has the bloodlust, but I guess she gets to choose whether she acts on it or not; she's not going to die if she doesn't.
Thanx for this.. Maybe the show DID word it clearly and I just didn't take in the necessary bits of information to receive clarity.
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:47
Flash525
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Guess in this you can touch a past/future version of yourself.
I wonder if we will meet a future Flash (Bart) and see Reverse Flash in his own timeline which is 14 years before Rip went back maybe RF even works for/with Savage?
I'm not so sure about Bart, but Eobard is quite likely, as is future versions of Barry & Oliver.

I can't see Eobard working with Savage though; he seems fixated on dooming Flash, and is all intertwined with the speedforce. I don't think he's that sort of villain.

Thanx for this..
You're welcome.
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:54
James Frederick
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I can't see Eobard working with Savage though; he seems fixated on dooming Flash, and is all intertwined with the speedforce. I don't think he's that sort of villain.
It looks like a War though so in that time your either with him or against him so I think Thawne would most likley be with him.
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Old 06-02-2016, 13:43
Flash525
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It looks like a War though so in that time your either with him or against him so I think Thawne would most likley be with him.
Even in War you still have people that do their own thing.

Speaking of which though, Thawne has the ability to travel time, and did so to kill Barry's Mum. Where were these Time Masters when that occurred?
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Old 06-02-2016, 16:14
Corwin
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So last week Dr Stein interfering with his past self caused the timeline to change (at least briefly) so that he was no longer married.

Yet this week we have Rip interacting with Savage which seemingly results in the Timeline that we have already seen (Savage knowing who Rip is when he kills Rips wife and son).



So which is it?

Do the teams actions in the past create a new timeline (what they are trying to do)


Or do their actions just result in the Timeline that already exists?




I suppose it could turn out that the scene with Savage killing the wife and kid was from an altered timeline (just with the effect shown before the cause was) and that in the original while they were still killed it was just random and Savage had no idea who they were.
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Old 07-02-2016, 12:34
Flash525
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So last week Dr Stein interfering with his past self caused the timeline to change (at least briefly) so that he was no longer married.

Yet this week we have Rip interacting with Savage which seemingly results in the Timeline that we have already seen (Savage knowing who Rip is when he kills Rips wife and son).

So which is it?

Do the teams actions in the past create a new timeline (what they are trying to do)?

Or do their actions just result in the Timeline that already exists?
It's probably a combination of the two. Rip knew that if anyone from the team altered the past, then their future would change (even though by definition, shouldn't their memories also change? Should Cold have remembered his childhood differently?) but yeah, Rip doesn't know the how about the death of his family, only that it happened.

If the team changes the past for one of the characters, then ultimately, the future for that character is also going to change. Rip (when talking to Savage) didn't actually change anything, he just, I suppose, created the paradox that will be the death of his family.

But then, if they manage to kill Savage, he wont be a threat to the future, so they team wouldn't have come together in the first place to go back in time to stop him. I hate time travel.

Curious too, save them killing Savage each episode, wouldn't it just make more sense for them to capture him? Lock him away in a vault (surely that timeship has a secure area?) and then just let Kendra do her thing?
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