O2 no longer top for Customer Satisfaction and Smartphone Penetration drops to 49.3%

Everything Goes · 14-05-2015, 13:28

What is going on at O2? They are no longer the tops for customer satisfaction. The crown has been taken by Tesco (who are up for sale if anyone is interested). Plus O2 have made an amazing achievement that no other network has done. Their Smartphone Penetration has gone down to 49.3% it was 52.1% in December 2014. O2 have always been way behind the other networks but it amazing they are actually going in reverse

Guess they must be signing up a lot of Grannies and Grandpas as the youngsters look for better data networks!

Hope Wavejock can handle the news. He's probably in a padded cell what with Hutchison potentially taking them over. Clearly they have a lot of work to do.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...&postcount=249

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2071409

Lyceum · 14-05-2015, 13:43

I was with o2 for over 10 years. During that time they went from a company where any issue I had would be resolved with a phone call to a company where any issue I had required repeated phone calls, emails, escalations and eventually an email to the CEO to get it sorted.

Customer service became incompetent and at times down right rude.

Generally when renewal time came you call say you've seen a better deal. They'd match it. You'd stay.

When I left the opposite was true. I was sim only. Called said I'd seen the deal I am currently on with Tesco, which is 1000mins, 5000sms and 1gb data for £10. They said they could offer similar, the offer? 300mins unlimited text and 300mb data for £14. Not sure what world they're in where 40% more for 70% less is 'similar'.

At the time my entire extended family were with O2 and all but one of my friends. Now they're all with Tesco. That's at least 20 customers, which I know is small change but I'm sure we're not the only family to do similar.

It seems O2 stopped caring about keeping customers and stopped caring about keeping the customers they do have happy.

When that becomes the case there's only one way a company is going. Downward.

psionic · 14-05-2015, 15:46

They outsourced CS.....

wrexham103.4 · 14-05-2015, 16:40

***wavejock's head explodes****

jchamier · 14-05-2015, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by psionic

They outsourced CS.....

Why do most companies outsource bits? To get a handle on costs ensure they're defined and limited - typically ready for takeover/merger etc.

O2's owners have no money; which is why they're selling up.

d123 · 14-05-2015, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrexham103.4

***wavejock's head explodes****

Don't be nasty (rumour is, said Mr wavejock still frequents these very rooms)

.

Thine Wonk · 14-05-2015, 21:38

Three has beaten them 2 quarters running now I think.

Thine Wonk · 14-05-2015, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by d123

Don't be nasty (rumour is, said Mr wavejock still frequents these very rooms)

.

I did see that rumour doing the rounds!

By the way, just how do they go backwards by such a jump in smartphone penetration? everyone else is significantly higher and they are going backwards?

clewsy · 14-05-2015, 22:07

What is the definition of a smart phone?

Is if they have loads of sim only does this not class as a smart phone, even if the customer with the deal is using an iPhone?

Thine Wonk · 14-05-2015, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

What is the definition of a smart phone?

Is if they have loads of sim only does this not class as a smart phone, even if the customer with the deal is using an iPhone?

I think they can tell what phone you're using can't they? doesn't the phone pass details back to the network about the device?

Unless they just class anybody that accesses 3G and 4G as smartphone customers? I guess only O2 knows how they arrive at that figure.

Everything Goes · 14-05-2015, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

I think they can tell what phone you're using can't they? doesn't the phone pass details back to the network about the device?

Unless they just class anybody that accesses 3G and 4G as smartphone customers? I guess only O2 knows how they arrive at that figure.

If you go on to O2's website and go into your account settings it displays the phone you currently have your Sim in. All networks can do this as the phone transmits its IMEI number to the network.

Thine Wonk · 14-05-2015, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

What is the definition of a smart phone?

I see it as a phone that isn't just pre-programmed to do set functions, but has the ability to install packages and be modified to run programs and use the phones CPU, memory, api's of the operating system to do those tasks. Multi tasking, package management, application switching are all key parts of the definition of a smartphone to me.

clewsy · 14-05-2015, 22:52

Is it an o2 measure or an industry one? Just think maybe its something to do with sim only deals increasing.

moox · 14-05-2015, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everything Goes

If you go on to O2's website and go into your account settings it displays the phone you currently have your Sim in. All networks can do this as the phone transmits its IMEI number to the network.

And some non-UK networks enjoy using this information to screw their customers even more. If it detects you have a smartphone, the billing system decides to automatically upgrade you to a much more expensive smartphone data plan.

Within the UK of course there's 3's efforts to block tethering through IMEI detection - even today I noticed that a 3 321 SIM won't work in a 3 dongle but works perfectly in a dongle from a different network (and a different 321 SIM works fine in either, which makes total sense)

BKM · 14-05-2015, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everything Goes

What is going on at O2? They are no longer the tops for customer satisfaction. .

Will all of O2's posters with the smug cat wearing the #1 medal be shortly withdrawn then?

eljmayes · 14-05-2015, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

I did see that rumour doing the rounds!

By the way, just how do they go backwards by such a jump in smartphone penetration? everyone else is significantly higher and they are going backwards?

What I want to know is how the low smartphone penetration does to the 4G experience? Is it relatively speedy because of the lack of congestion?

jonmorris · 15-05-2015, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by d123

Don't be nasty (rumour is, said Mr wavejock still frequents these very rooms)

.

Stands to reason, although it wouldn't be hard to spot him. How many people post sycophantic praise about O2? He would stand out a mile!

Grayburn · 15-05-2015, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by eljmayes

What I want to know is how the low smartphone penetration does to the 4G experience? Is it relatively speedy because of the lack of congestion?

It can be very good but it all depends on location. It's a bit congested in some parts of The City but in others it's quite surprising as it was so shit 2 minutes down the road. I rarely rely on 4G whilst at work though due to WiFi.

Good speeds where i live so all good on O2 4G here.

Redcoat · 15-05-2015, 19:10

Sounds like the performance of a network whose owner doesn't have any notable plans to take it forward. Sale to Hutchinson inevitable.

Gigabit · 15-05-2015, 19:17

O2 4G works quite well in my experience, 20Mbps being my average speed. Never seen higher than 55Mbps.

The issue is that it will only work well in large towns and cities. Leave and it's back to GPRS where I just give up.

d123 · 15-05-2015, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

Stands to reason, although it wouldn't be hard to spot him. How many people post sycophantic praise about O2? He would stand out a mile!

He could just be posting criticism and crap about other networks without mentioning O2 and still getting the same result

.

japaul · 15-05-2015, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

Is it an o2 measure or an industry one? Just think maybe its something to do with sim only deals increasing.

There's no industry standard but from memory I think I'm correct in saying TEF's definition of smartphone penetration is purely tariff based, not handset based.

jonmorris · 15-05-2015, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by d123

He could just be posting criticism and crap about other networks without mentioning O2 and still getting the same result

.

True. Anyone seen any overly exaggerated anti-Three rants lately?

clewsy · 15-05-2015, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by japaul

There's no industry standard but from memory I think I'm correct in saying TEF's definition of smartphone penetration is purely tariff based, not handset based.

Thanks. Bit of a joke then as some of the claims made by the networks depends on the stats used, which may not be equal.

I suspect the o2 de could fall over. Saw something on the news about it last night and implied the competition commission could block this deal, as the benefits to the consumer are hard to see. If this did happen, where does this leave o2?

Thine Wonk · 15-05-2015, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

Thanks. Bit of a joke then as some of the claims made by the networks depends on the stats used, which may not be equal.

I suspect the o2 de could fall over. Saw something on the news about it last night and implied the competition commission could block this deal, as the benefits to the consumer are hard to see. If this did happen, where does this leave o2?

I can tell you if this did happen I think HWL would exit the UK as I don't think they would continue to operate up against the likes of BT, Vodafone etc they may as well invest in other European countries or look into other markets than try to operate a minority share network in such a powerful market.

However, if 3 large operators existed in the market there would be real competition between the 3, we do have to accept increases to prices though as data has always been subsidised and many of the additional revenue opportunities have been lost in recent years, roaming rates, european roaming caps, termination rates, sms and call costs dropping, iMessage and WhatsApp replacing some revenue, Skype replacing network video charges, 0800 numbers going free, other 03 numbers going into packages, the new caps coming into force of £100 liability for fraud and charges when a phone is lost / stolen etc.

All of these changes mean we will see rises in data costs as it will become the main billing factor. That won't be because of competition, but because of all the reasons listed above.

14-05-2015, 13:28	#1
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	O2 no longer top for Customer Satisfaction and Smartphone Penetration drops to 49.3% What is going on at O2? They are no longer the tops for customer satisfaction. The crown has been taken by Tesco (who are up for sale if anyone is interested). Plus O2 have made an amazing achievement that no other network has done. Their Smartphone Penetration has gone down to 49.3% it was 52.1% in December 2014. O2 have always been way behind the other networks but it amazing they are actually going in reverse Guess they must be signing up a lot of Grannies and Grandpas as the youngsters look for better data networks! Hope Wavejock can handle the news. He's probably in a padded cell what with Hutchison potentially taking them over. Clearly they have a lot of work to do. http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...&postcount=249 http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2071409

14-05-2015, 13:43	#2
Lyceum Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,124	I was with o2 for over 10 years. During that time they went from a company where any issue I had would be resolved with a phone call to a company where any issue I had required repeated phone calls, emails, escalations and eventually an email to the CEO to get it sorted. Customer service became incompetent and at times down right rude. Generally when renewal time came you call say you've seen a better deal. They'd match it. You'd stay. When I left the opposite was true. I was sim only. Called said I'd seen the deal I am currently on with Tesco, which is 1000mins, 5000sms and 1gb data for £10. They said they could offer similar, the offer? 300mins unlimited text and 300mb data for £14. Not sure what world they're in where 40% more for 70% less is 'similar'. At the time my entire extended family were with O2 and all but one of my friends. Now they're all with Tesco. That's at least 20 customers, which I know is small change but I'm sure we're not the only family to do similar. It seems O2 stopped caring about keeping customers and stopped caring about keeping the customers they do have happy. When that becomes the case there's only one way a company is going. Downward.

14-05-2015, 15:46	#3
psionic Forum Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Crystal Palace TX Posts: 19,702	They outsourced CS.....

14-05-2015, 16:40	#4
wrexham103.4 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,140	*wavejock's head explodes**

14-05-2015, 18:50	#5
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by psionic They outsourced CS..... Why do most companies outsource bits? To get a handle on costs ensure they're defined and limited - typically ready for takeover/merger etc. O2's owners have no money; which is why they're selling up.

14-05-2015, 19:27	#6
d123 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,993	Quote: Originally Posted by wrexham103.4 *wavejock's head explodes** Don't be nasty (rumour is, said Mr wavejock still frequents these very rooms) .

14-05-2015, 21:38	#7
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Three has beaten them 2 quarters running now I think.

14-05-2015, 21:38	#8
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by d123 Don't be nasty (rumour is, said Mr wavejock still frequents these very rooms) . I did see that rumour doing the rounds! By the way, just how do they go backwards by such a jump in smartphone penetration? everyone else is significantly higher and they are going backwards?

14-05-2015, 22:07	#9
clewsy Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midlands Posts: 2,860	What is the definition of a smart phone? Is if they have loads of sim only does this not class as a smart phone, even if the customer with the deal is using an iPhone?

14-05-2015, 22:33	#10
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by clewsy What is the definition of a smart phone? Is if they have loads of sim only does this not class as a smart phone, even if the customer with the deal is using an iPhone? I think they can tell what phone you're using can't they? doesn't the phone pass details back to the network about the device? Unless they just class anybody that accesses 3G and 4G as smartphone customers? I guess only O2 knows how they arrive at that figure.

14-05-2015, 22:48	#11
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk I think they can tell what phone you're using can't they? doesn't the phone pass details back to the network about the device? Unless they just class anybody that accesses 3G and 4G as smartphone customers? I guess only O2 knows how they arrive at that figure. If you go on to O2's website and go into your account settings it displays the phone you currently have your Sim in. All networks can do this as the phone transmits its IMEI number to the network.

14-05-2015, 22:51	#12
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by clewsy What is the definition of a smart phone? I see it as a phone that isn't just pre-programmed to do set functions, but has the ability to install packages and be modified to run programs and use the phones CPU, memory, api's of the operating system to do those tasks. Multi tasking, package management, application switching are all key parts of the definition of a smartphone to me.

14-05-2015, 22:52	#13
clewsy Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midlands Posts: 2,860	Is it an o2 measure or an industry one? Just think maybe its something to do with sim only deals increasing.

14-05-2015, 22:56	#14
moox Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,645	Quote: Originally Posted by Everything Goes If you go on to O2's website and go into your account settings it displays the phone you currently have your Sim in. All networks can do this as the phone transmits its IMEI number to the network. And some non-UK networks enjoy using this information to screw their customers even more. If it detects you have a smartphone, the billing system decides to automatically upgrade you to a much more expensive smartphone data plan. Within the UK of course there's 3's efforts to block tethering through IMEI detection - even today I noticed that a 3 321 SIM won't work in a 3 dongle but works perfectly in a dongle from a different network (and a different 321 SIM works fine in either, which makes total sense)

14-05-2015, 23:41	#15
BKM Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,288	Quote: Originally Posted by Everything Goes What is going on at O2? They are no longer the tops for customer satisfaction. . Will all of O2's posters with the smug cat wearing the #1 medal be shortly withdrawn then?

14-05-2015, 23:45	#16
eljmayes Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 925	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk I did see that rumour doing the rounds! By the way, just how do they go backwards by such a jump in smartphone penetration? everyone else is significantly higher and they are going backwards? What I want to know is how the low smartphone penetration does to the 4G experience? Is it relatively speedy because of the lack of congestion?

15-05-2015, 15:47	#17
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by d123 Don't be nasty (rumour is, said Mr wavejock still frequents these very rooms) . Stands to reason, although it wouldn't be hard to spot him. How many people post sycophantic praise about O2? He would stand out a mile!

15-05-2015, 16:00	#18
Grayburn Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Essex Posts: 225	Quote: Originally Posted by eljmayes What I want to know is how the low smartphone penetration does to the 4G experience? Is it relatively speedy because of the lack of congestion? It can be very good but it all depends on location. It's a bit congested in some parts of The City but in others it's quite surprising as it was so shit 2 minutes down the road. I rarely rely on 4G whilst at work though due to WiFi. Good speeds where i live so all good on O2 4G here.

15-05-2015, 19:10	#19
Redcoat Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The wilds of West Tyrone Posts: 2,122	Sounds like the performance of a network whose owner doesn't have any notable plans to take it forward. Sale to Hutchinson inevitable.

15-05-2015, 19:17	#20
Gigabit Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2,887	O2 4G works quite well in my experience, 20Mbps being my average speed. Never seen higher than 55Mbps. The issue is that it will only work well in large towns and cities. Leave and it's back to GPRS where I just give up.

DS Forums

O2 no longer top for Customer Satisfaction and Smartphone Penetration drops to 49.3%

15-05-2015, 19:40	#21
d123 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,993	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris Stands to reason, although it wouldn't be hard to spot him. How many people post sycophantic praise about O2? He would stand out a mile! He could just be posting criticism and crap about other networks without mentioning O2 and still getting the same result .

15-05-2015, 19:49	#22
japaul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,662	Quote: Originally Posted by clewsy Is it an o2 measure or an industry one? Just think maybe its something to do with sim only deals increasing. There's no industry standard but from memory I think I'm correct in saying TEF's definition of smartphone penetration is purely tariff based, not handset based.

15-05-2015, 19:55	#23
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by d123 He could just be posting criticism and crap about other networks without mentioning O2 and still getting the same result . True. Anyone seen any overly exaggerated anti-Three rants lately?

15-05-2015, 20:29	#24
clewsy Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midlands Posts: 2,860	Quote: Originally Posted by japaul There's no industry standard but from memory I think I'm correct in saying TEF's definition of smartphone penetration is purely tariff based, not handset based. Thanks. Bit of a joke then as some of the claims made by the networks depends on the stats used, which may not be equal. I suspect the o2 de could fall over. Saw something on the news about it last night and implied the competition commission could block this deal, as the benefits to the consumer are hard to see. If this did happen, where does this leave o2?

15-05-2015, 20:40	#25
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by clewsy Thanks. Bit of a joke then as some of the claims made by the networks depends on the stats used, which may not be equal. I suspect the o2 de could fall over. Saw something on the news about it last night and implied the competition commission could block this deal, as the benefits to the consumer are hard to see. If this did happen, where does this leave o2? I can tell you if this did happen I think HWL would exit the UK as I don't think they would continue to operate up against the likes of BT, Vodafone etc they may as well invest in other European countries or look into other markets than try to operate a minority share network in such a powerful market. However, if 3 large operators existed in the market there would be real competition between the 3, we do have to accept increases to prices though as data has always been subsidised and many of the additional revenue opportunities have been lost in recent years, roaming rates, european roaming caps, termination rates, sms and call costs dropping, iMessage and WhatsApp replacing some revenue, Skype replacing network video charges, 0800 numbers going free, other 03 numbers going into packages, the new caps coming into force of £100 liability for fraud and charges when a phone is lost / stolen etc. All of these changes mean we will see rises in data costs as it will become the main billing factor. That won't be because of competition, but because of all the reasons listed above.