[clewsy]

That isn't going to wash though is it. They sited the price hikes in other countries where this has happened and the lack of investment that followed.

Clearly this is not a good deal for the consumer and its great news that the competition commission could actually for once be about to act in favour of tbr consumer.

As for leave the UK, no way. They have spent too much on the network, however suspect they could consolidate. As for o2 who would want to buy a network who would not be purchasing a monopoly?

[Stereo Steve]

Obviously a good deal of spite in this thread and no I'm not an O2 customer (was once) and neither do I work for them. We know that O2's 3G rollout has been tragic but we also know that since 3 lost a lot of 2G backup, their voice service has gone downhill in some areas. Where EE and VOD have a good spread of frequencies, it seems O2 and 3 are a little hamstrung by what they have. So the 'merge' makes sense to me. They will still lack 2600 (I think?) but will have a huge amount of 800.

Where they to merge tomorrow and customers of both were immediately able to use 3 for data and O2 for 900 2G, it would be a pretty damn good network for most people. Of course it will take time and the other 2 will be improving 4G and VoLTE may be a game changer over all.

I see no problem with the takeover. It will make one good network out of 2 flawed ones. I suspect they may have to surrender some 800 to EE who don't have enough.

CS? Dunno, they don't have a lot to fear from EE and 3 who are appalling in this regard. Not had the pleasure of dealing with VOD CS yet.

Smartphones? Why sweat it? A good chunk of customers who pay their bills but use little data is surely a good thing business wise. You may write them off as oldies or whatever but they are paying every month. Sneer all you like but heavy data users and speed freaks are not actually helpful when you have limited capacity. All those taxi drivers etc. doing their voice business over 2G are bringing in valuable revenue through infrastructure that is already paid for.

[jonmorris]

Three has worked really hard for 2-3 years to improve customer service, and I'd say it's achieved that aim. It has now won a number of awards for customer service.

Mud sticks of course, so it's hard to convince Joe Public that Three has improved - just as I am sure people will think O2 is top dog (or cat?) for many years from now.

It can't help that Carphone Warehouse will have been slating Three for ages too!

[Gigabit]

I think both Three and O2 customers would benefit. Three customers would have a decent-ish 4G network and O2 customers would have a decent-ish 3G network.

[Gigabit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

It can't help that Carphone Warehouse will have been slating Three for ages too!

Sounds like a Bad Luck Brian meme:

Hates on Three.

Launches MVNO using Three's network.

[lightspeed2398]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stereo Steve

They will still lack 2600 (I think?) but will have a huge amount of 800.

Where they to merge tomorrow and customers of both were immediately able to use 3 for data and O2 for 900 2G

2x15Mhz of 800 would make a good network but doesn't it put them over a <1Ghz cap that Ofcom made or am I making that up?

[Stereo Steve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

Three has worked really hard for 2-3 years to improve customer service, and I'd say it's achieved that aim. It has now won a number of awards for customer service.

Mud sticks of course, so it's hard to convince Joe Public that Three has improved - just as I am sure people will think O2 is top dog (or cat?) for many years from now.

It can't help that Carphone Warehouse will have been slating Three for ages too!

I'll take your word for it. Last time I was with them we were unable to get my address right after 5 calls to Bombay and lots of shouting out of letters. It was comical but that was a couple years ago.

[Stereo Steve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

2x15Mhz of 800 would make a good network but doesn't it put them over a <1Ghz cap that Ofcom made or am I making that up?

Dunno. The more 800 the better. Not particularly interested in speed unless I can tether. For the phone, decent data coverage so I can check the bank with good calls is all I need at the mo.

[Tariq_ali1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

I can tell you if this did happen I think HWL would exit the UK as I don't think they would continue to operate up against the likes of BT, Vodafone etc they may as well invest in other European countries or look into other markets than try to operate a minority share network in such a powerful market.

However, if 3 large operators existed in the market there would be real competition between the 3, we do have to accept increases to prices though as data has always been subsidised and many of the additional revenue opportunities have been lost in recent years, roaming rates, european roaming caps, termination rates, sms and call costs dropping, iMessage and WhatsApp replacing some revenue, Skype replacing network video charges, 0800 numbers going free, other 03 numbers going into packages, the new caps coming into force of £100 liability for fraud and charges when a phone is lost / stolen etc.

All of these changes mean we will see rises in data costs as it will become the main billing factor. That won't be because of competition, but because of all the reasons listed above.

Very well put.

It's easy to get caught in one metric without looking at the overall picture.

[mrgs12]

Quote:

Originally Posted by japaul

There's no industry standard but from memory I think I'm correct in saying TEF's definition of smartphone penetration is purely tariff based, not handset based.

So my HTC one and wife's S4 are seen as non smartphones because we don't have a data tariff just simple Payg?

[Everything Goes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrgs12

So my HTC one and wife's S4 are seen as non smartphones because we don't have a data tariff just simple Payg?

No they are clearly smartphones. All plans from Pay As You Go to Contract have Data available even if costs a lot to use it. Its unimportant how much or how little Data you use. Even if you use nothing. O2 will detect what phone you are using regardless.

[JamieEarl]

Last time I used o2 it was great CS, Appeared to always be UK call centers and I must say from what I remember it was a decent experience. On the other hand I was on the phone too many times to CS due to their poor network..

Up hear in Cumbria they have very poor 3G network, Dire 2G network coverage. Where networks like EE/3 have 3G coverage all over the main A/B roads including the M6! What more could anyone in a car want! Not only that, the orange 2G network seems to be really good!

( I would also like to point out o2 are poor here but in Cumbria especially Carlisle Vodafone is the most hated for their 3g coverage and data speeds. There is a dedicated we hate Vodafone Facebook page along with frequent newspaper reports on them).

Jamie

[jonmorris]

O2 is also laughably bad in East Anglia too. 2G coverage isn't too terrible, but 3G coverage is incredibly patchy, especially if you ignore the 'outdoor' coverage elements.

By contrast, EE and Three are miles ahead (Vodafone also being very poor).

It's amazing that for so many years, O2 and Vodafone must have virtually halted any roll out.

When I was in the Lake District some 3-4 years ago, I was quite amazed that it was only Three that gave me a signal in our cottage. It wasn't a good signal by any means, but a signal nonetheless - and I was able to get my laptop online and get speeds of around 1-2Mbps.

[moox]

In Cornwall it's much the same. I'm not even sure if the cell site serving my village is working correctly.

I have some old Blackberry with an O2 SIM in it. Sometimes it reports a belting 3G signal, sometimes it's a low 3G signal, sometimes it's on GPRS. It doesn't seem to do this with Vodafone or other networks. I think it's 900MHz mostly, with a very crappy 2100MHz signal (which may be the low 3G signal).

Vodafone here is doing 900MHz now and it really gets out there, but they have awful backhaul so it's useless anyway (I really do think it's literally a 56k modem, or BRI ISDN line or something).

EE or 3 remains unbeatable. 4G from EE, very good HSPA from 3. Hopefully Vodafone and O2 will step up their game if 4G ever gets here

[Grayburn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

O2 is also laughably bad in East Anglia too. 2G coverage isn't too terrible, but 3G coverage is incredibly patchy, especially if you ignore the 'outdoor' coverage elements.
.

Fully agree there. I was at Potters for the weekend a month or so ago and signal was fine but trying to use data was just a big fat waste of time.

[Resonance]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

O2 is also laughably bad in East Anglia too. 2G coverage isn't too terrible, but 3G coverage is incredibly patchy, especially if you ignore the 'outdoor' coverage elements.

By contrast, EE and Three are miles ahead (Vodafone also being very poor).

It's amazing that for so many years, O2 and Vodafone must have virtually halted any roll out.

When I was in the Lake District some 3-4 years ago, I was quite amazed that it was only Three that gave me a signal in our cottage. It wasn't a good signal by any means, but a signal nonetheless - and I was able to get my laptop online and get speeds of around 1-2Mbps.

I was surprised how good EE's 3G coverage was in the Lakes about a year ago. I was driving around streaming online radio (via Tunein) and it was surprisingly reliable. I was driving through areas that were seemingly nothing but mountains and still streaming over 3G no problem. I was very impressed.

Compared to one of our party who was on Tesco (O2's network) the difference was stark. They basically hardly ever got a sniff of 3G.

[Mark in Essex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resonance

I was surprised how good EE's 3G coverage was in the Lakes about a year ago. I was driving around streaming online radio (via Tunein) and it was surprisingly reliable. I was driving through areas that were seemingly nothing but mountains and still streaming over 3G no problem. I was very impressed.

Compared to one of our party who was on Tesco (O2's network) the difference was stark. They basically hardly ever got a sniff of 3G.

Same here with Three.

I streamed high quality internet radio from Poole, Dorset to Harlow and then another day from Basildon to Norwich (that time taking a lot of small roads in rural areas) and the only time it cut out was for around 2 mins on the A140.

My works Vodafone phone was lucky to get any reception, let alone 3G.

Also I've been camping several times and where I'd have fairly good speeds of 3G on Three my friend on O2 and wife on Vodafone (at the time) were lucky if they got Edge, let alone 3G - I spent most of the time with them tethering to my phone.

Three seems ideal for me as I'm not too bothered about silly download speeds (10meg+) in built up areas, I'm just happy if I get at least 3/4meg wherever I am in the country and that's what II usually get with Three even when I'm working in the more rural locations.

[Resonance]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark in Essex

Same here with Three.

I streamed high quality internet radio from Poole, Dorset to Harlow and then another day from Basildon to Norwich (that time taking a lot of small roads in rural areas) and the only time it cut out was for around 2 mins on the A140.

My works Vodafone phone was lucky to get any reception, let alone 3G.

Also I've been camping several times and where I'd have fairly good speeds of 3G on Three my friend on O2 and wife on Vodafone (at the time) were lucky if they got Edge, let alone 3G - I spent most of the time with them tethering to my phone.

Three seems ideal for me as I'm not too bothered about silly download speeds (10meg+) in built up areas, I'm just happy if I get at least 3/4meg wherever I am in the country and that's what II usually get with Three even when I'm working in the more rural locations.

The thing that amazes me is that streaming internet radio over EE 3G/4G is a lot more reliable than DAB in a lot of places and that's with my phone in a mount on the windscreen and a roof aerial for DAB.

EE and Three seem to have done a great job in covering even very rural areas with 3G. They really are streets ahead of O2/Vodafone.

[Stereo Steve]

I had an O2 sim for a while as I need calls and for that, it's superior to EE/3 where I live at least and I thought they were ahead of VOD for 3G900. The truth is that even when you get a full 3G signal like in Newton Abbot, you would often just get no data at all. Nothing. Quite absurd.

[d123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resonance

The thing that amazes me is that streaming internet radio over EE 3G/4G is a lot more reliable than DAB in a lot of places and that's with my phone in a mount on the windscreen and a roof aerial for DAB.

EE and Three seem to have done a great job in covering even very rural areas with 3G. They really are streets ahead of O2/Vodafone.

I've even found both EE and Three be better at streaming than conventional FM in some parts of the country.

[Resonance]

Quote:

Originally Posted by d123

I've even found both EE and Three be better at streaming than conventional FM in some parts of the country.

Yes, there's certainly a place or two around here where that is the case. Maybe online radio will be the future, even in cars (provided you're on a good network)?

[jonmorris]

Data charges aside, a car fitted with a SIM, decent antenna and acting as a wireless hotspot could probably easily stream music, and even video, on the go.

Once we have 800MHz LTE covering areas never covered before, it could well become a reality.

[Thine Wonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

Data charges aside, a car fitted with a SIM, decent antenna and acting as a wireless hotspot could probably easily stream music, and even video, on the go.

Once we have 800MHz LTE covering areas never covered before, it could well become a reality.

Multicast reduces the overhead too, as well as an LTE enhancement in the later versions that supports non duplication of data streams I think. It could become the standard listening method in years to come. I see DAB and older technologies as redundant in the long-term as they are very wasteful of spectrum and they need whole networks of masts just to steam digital MP2 audio streams only.

Somebody will bring up the free at the point of use question again, but there's nothing to stop development of a radio chip that works on IP data and where it is free to use because the broadcasters pay a (or multiple) network(s) to carry the permitted streams restricted and walled. We have already seen the likes of Amazon do deals with Vodafone for the Kindle that has a sim and permits access based on the Amazon to Vodafone contract, not the consumer. TomTom do the same with Vodafone.

[JamieEarl]

Seems to be a nice thread hating on o2/Vodafone and complimenting 3/EE. Like the people above complimenting 3/EE in the lakes, I must say I live there and it's great! Speeds are usually decent too!

[Gigabit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamieEarl

Seems to be a nice thread hating on o2/Vodafone and complimenting 3/EE. Like the people above complimenting 3/EE in the lakes, I must say I live there and it's great! Speeds are usually decent too!

This forum has actually been rather balanced of late. When the jock went it all got better (although he might still be around...).