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Old 29-06-2015, 13:38
EmmaGx
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Why is it? He's just starting winding down - seems very reminiscent of what happens to a computer before it clunks out to me.

I think the Dr knew what was going to happen - he meant to leave Odi out in the forest because he didn't want to destroy him but also couldn't keep him in the house with Rebecca Front.
... it's basically showing us that all the aware synths we know of have a very short life, that will end in what amounts to some form of dementia ... and because they're synths not human, nobody wants to prolong their life, they will just be wrenched from those that love them and recycled ...
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Old 29-06-2015, 13:46
solare
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The kid who's determined to hack every Synth she finds is annoying. The others don't bother me.

How old is that kid supposed to be? Because she acts like a moody two year old.
I can't stand Brattie either. Very annoying. Laura, I don't mind too much. I can understand she feels threatened by Anita. Loved the part where her husband gets to examine Anita's naked body in the garage while Laura's left to wheel the bike home!

Of all the synths, I find Anita to be the most convincing and that's down to the superb acting by Gemma Chan. Her expressions and body language really capture the subtlety of being a machine without appearing too robotic. The moment last night where she suddenly became Mia before reverting back to Anita was excellent.

Rebecca Front, on the other hand, just seems to be a grumpier version of Chief Superintendent Innocent reprimanding George instead of Lewis.

As from Odi, I'm worried him, out in the woods all alone - stuttering and running out of power!
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Old 29-06-2015, 13:47
striing
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... it's basically showing us that all the aware synths we know of have a very short life, that will end in what amounts to some form of dementia ... and because they're synths not human, nobody wants to prolong their life, they will just be wrenched from those that love them and recycled ...
Or that they have a similar lifespan to a computer and identify when they're runnning down. Odi said 'multiple faults detected on start up'. That isn't dementia. It's a machine coming to the end of it's life.

A programme like this wouldn't have worked in the past when equipment was made to last forever (or for many, many years) but it's entirely in keeping with our modern phone upgrade every 2 years culture.
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Old 29-06-2015, 13:56
StressMonkey
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Or that they have a similar lifespan to a computer and identify when they're runnning down. Odi said 'multiple faults detected on start up'. That isn't dementia. It's a machine coming to the end of it's life.

A programme like this wouldn't have worked in the past when equipment was made to last forever (or for many, many years) but it's entirely in keeping with our modern phone upgrade every 2 years culture.
Interesting perspective. Rather than a deliberate limiting of life span to prevent awareness that we had in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep/Bladerunner, we have a limited lifespan for commercial/sociological/technological reasons. The self awareness - whether achieved by accident or design - of Mia/Anita and the others are just as at risk though - they will still 'die' . Unlike Odi who will just become u/s.
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Old 29-06-2015, 13:58
EmmaGx
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Or that they have a similar lifespan to a computer and identify when they're runnning down. Odi said 'multiple faults detected on start up'. That isn't dementia. It's a machine coming to the end of it's life.

A programme like this wouldn't have worked in the past when equipment was made to last forever (or for many, many years) but it's entirely in keeping with our modern phone upgrade every 2 years culture.
... that's great for all the regular machine synths ... but is going to be heartbreaking for the conscious ones!
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Old 29-06-2015, 14:11
Dalekbuster523
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I don't know why there is so much criticism of the daughter. Having working with teenagers I find her very convincing, especially when her motivation is feeling that the synths are making her existence pointless (which teenagers tend to think about something or other anyway!).
I understand the motivation but I just can't find her likeable when what she's doing is basically vandalism and possibly (seeing as she seems to have feelings) torture for Anita.

Anita clearly cares a lot about her as well as the other kids in the household and that's the way she treats her?

If the character's supposed to be 18, I'm of a similar age of 19 and if I was living in this parallel present I wouldn't treat someone who's shown nothing but kindness like that Synth or otherwise.
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Old 29-06-2015, 14:20
Shawn_Lunn
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Another great episode. I still don't like either Laura or Matilda (or anyone from that family) but I did like them both trying to find out more about Anita though.

Max and Leo were pretty useless in trying to stop Niska though, weren't they?

Felt bad for Odi and George in this episode as well. 8/10
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Old 29-06-2015, 14:20
Doctor_Wibble
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They're talking about Leo ... they didn't understand why the Synths would have food and water, as they wouldn't need that to survive ... they're definitely counting Leo as a synth whether we do or not.
Are they talking about Leo though? Is it possible that they don't know he is involved and that it is a synth-only group? I'm guessing that the hunter didn't think that at first but is now getting an idea that there is a human helping them because there's no other reason to take food - unless it was camouflage in case they got stopped or searched?
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Old 29-06-2015, 14:27
EmmaGx
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Are they talking about Leo though? Is it possible that they don't know he is involved and that it is a synth-only group? I'm guessing that the hunter didn't think that at first but is now getting an idea that there is a human helping them because there's no other reason to take food - unless it was camouflage in case they got stopped or searched?
I think you're over thinking this ... they know of a group of 5 synths on the run ... why would they think that group is 4 synths plus a human, or 5 synths +human ... especially when we know Leo is at least part synth ... and they're clearly confused about why they would need food and water. They think Leo is part of the group, and a synth just like the others.
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Old 29-06-2015, 14:38
striing
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... that's great for all the regular machine synths ... but is going to be heartbreaking for the conscious ones!
I can't see it like that. They're not conscious in the human sense - they have mechanisms to mimic some traits of consciousness. That isn't the same thing.

Interesting perspective. Rather than a deliberate limiting of life span to prevent awareness that we had in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep/Bladerunner, we have a limited lifespan for commercial/sociological/technological reasons. The self awareness - whether achieved by accident or design - of Mia/Anita and the others are just as at risk though - they will still 'die' . Unlike Odi who will just become u/s.
Uh - okay that might as well have been written in Russian for how much I understand. Can I just ask, what is u/s?
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Old 29-06-2015, 15:06
EmmaGx
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I can't see it like that. They're not conscious in the human sense - they have mechanisms to mimic some traits of consciousness. That isn't the same thing.


Uh - okay that might as well have been written in Russian for how much I understand. Can I just ask, what is u/s?
... if you don't buy into the consciousness what's the point in the show? ... so far as you're concerned it really doesn't matter if Leo & Co are captured & destroyed as they're just machines?

As humans we anthropomorphise without even thinking about it. Laura knows that Anita is a machine and doesn't feel pain (and we know it's special effects) but simply can't watch someone poking themselves in the eye with a cocktail stick.

The point of these conscious synths is that they are conscious, have free will, and to a greater or lesser extent are acting very human & have formed emotional attachments to one another. But it's ok, because they're machines, so they will just be switched off one day?

I guess that's your way of looking at it, but it's definitely not mine! ... I find it sad that Odi is dying, and if he has any consciousness at all it's minuscule in comparison to Leo & Co.
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Old 29-06-2015, 15:14
GodAtum
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I do think the actress who plays Mattie is quite pretty
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Old 29-06-2015, 15:21
StressMonkey
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I can't see it like that. They're not conscious in the human sense - they have mechanisms to mimic some traits of consciousness. That isn't the same thing.


Uh - okay that might as well have been written in Russian for how much I understand. Can I just ask, what is u/s?
u/s = unserviceable - i.e. knackered.

I was taking forward (i hope) your original point regarding the disposability of the synths. The synths are disposable because of the current culture or replacing everything - especially technology - rather than repairing. That culture being for commercial and sociological reasons - a consumer driven, throw away society. Which for Odi is one thing, but for the five with consciousness is a 'death' sentence.

I compared it with the book 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep' (made into the film Bladerunner) where the equivalent of the synths (Replicants) gain consciousness if they stay operating for too long so have a limited life span built in to stop this happening - a deliberate act rather than one that arises consequentially as in Humans.

Both Humans and Bladerunner deal with the themes of what makes us human, what is consciousness, what is life. What is the value of life.

Not sure if I've explained any better that time!!

Извините !!
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Old 29-06-2015, 15:27
striing
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... if you don't buy into the consciousness what's the point in the show? ... so far as you're concerned it really doesn't matter if Leo & Co are captured & destroyed as they're just machines?

As humans we anthropomorphise without even thinking about it. Laura knows that Anita is a machine and doesn't feel pain (and we know it's special effects) but simply can't watch someone poking themselves in the eye with a cocktail stick.

The point of these conscious synths is that they are conscious, have free will, and to a greater or lesser extent are acting very human & have formed emotional attachments to one another. But it's ok, because they're machines, so they will just be switched off one day?

I guess that's your way of looking at it, but it's definitely not mine! ... I find it sad that Odi is dying, and if he has any consciousness at all it's minuscule in comparison to Leo & Co.
Who is trying to destroy them? Isn't the point that Danny Webb wants to work out how they work ie what the modification was? Of course, he also wants to make sure all the synths aren't modified in the same way or they won't work as synths.

I use words like 'dying' when referring to my kettle breaking. I might even be a bit sad if it's a kettle I particuarly like but I don't for one moment feel the same about my kettle 'dying' as I did when my mother died. Odi isn't dying in the human sense - he's dying in the same way a kettle/computer/car dies. The Dr is clearly ill and has over identified with the machine. It probably helps to explain why the replacement nurse is such a bitch. It would arguably be more cruel to give elderly people suffering from memory loss a kind machine they will have to lose when its battery wears out (or whatever) as they might not have the cognitive ability to realise it's just a machine ending. I still don't think the nurse should be that powerful though - that is frightening and I wouldn't want one near my relative or me. That shows the danger of replacing some jobs with a machine. A machine to pick fruit - fine but for nursing - risky.
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Old 29-06-2015, 15:35
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Who is trying to destroy them? Isn't the point that Danny Webb wants to work out how they work ie what the modification was? Of course, he also wants to make sure all the synths aren't modified in the same way or they won't work as synths.

I use words like 'dying' when referring to my kettle breaking. I might even be a bit sad if it's a kettle I particuarly like but I don't for one moment feel the same about my kettle 'dying' as I did when my mother died. Odi isn't dying in the human sense - he's dying in the same way a kettle/computer/car dies. The Dr is clearly ill and has over identified with the machine. It probably helps to explain why the replacement nurse is such a bitch. It would arguably be more cruel to give elderly people suffering from memory loss a kind machine they will have to lose when its battery wears out (or whatever) as they might not have the cognitive ability to realise it's just a machine ending. I still don't think the nurse should be that powerful though - that is frightening and I wouldn't want one near my relative or me. That shows the danger of replacing some jobs with a machine. A machine to pick fruit - fine but for nursing - risky.
They should just be able to back up Odi's files ans transfer them to a synth that looks exactly the same? It cant be that hard.
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Old 29-06-2015, 15:46
striing
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u/s = unserviceable - i.e. knackered.

I was taking forward (i hope) your original point regarding the disposability of the synths. The synths are disposable because of the current culture or replacing everything - especially technology - rather than repairing. That culture being for commercial and sociological reasons - a consumer driven, throw away society. Which for Odi is one thing, but for the five with consciousness is a 'death' sentence.

I compared it with the book 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep' (made into the film Bladerunner) where the equivalent of the synths (Replicants) gain consciousness if they stay operating for too long so have a limited life span built in to stop this happening - a deliberate act rather than one that arises consequentially as in Humans.

Both Humans and Bladerunner deal with the themes of what makes us human, what is consciousness, what is life. What is the value of life.

Not sure if I've explained any better that time!!

Извините !!
Yes I understood that! It was the references that threw me the first time as I don't have any previous sci-fi knowledge. I am interested in the theme of what makes us human, but possibly from the other end. My awareness of the subject (other than being brought up religious - sorry ) links to linguistics rather than science. I remember one topic on a masters in linguistics that was essentially around how do we know that what you call a table and what I call a table are the same thing. I can't remember the intricacies of it but it extended to things like 'how do I know if I throw the ball against the wall it doesn't feel pain'. It was something to do with the fact that everything is essentially made out of the same material and that we define our world through language (so different cultures perceive things in different ways due to the lingusitic construction - a table isn't just a table - it depends on who is defining it).

Anyway that's probably nothing to do with sci-fi! But it does link back to how we define death - is your concept of death the same as mine? Do the synths have a 'death'? Who gets to define what death is in the new world of synths?
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Old 29-06-2015, 16:24
Charnham
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It seems many synths are in menial jobs, that involve them being out all day ... public charging points seem a sensible option! ... how many of us need to charge our mobiles when we're out!
fair enough some of the out door synths need someplace to charge, but that is not the middle of the shopping centre.
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Old 29-06-2015, 16:48
striing
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fair enough some of the out door synths need someplace to charge, but that is not the middle of the shopping centre.
I thought the point of that scene was just to show how ordinary synths are in that world. Like we see electric car charging points (though admittedly they are only in limited areas at the moment).
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Old 29-06-2015, 16:50
koantemplation
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fair enough some of the out door synths need someplace to charge, but that is not the middle of the shopping centre.
If robot charging points are going to be any where, they will be in shopping centers.
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Old 29-06-2015, 17:01
Mitu_Pappi
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Police still driving Kia cars in the future then? Sadly most of the technology in the home and streets appears to be same as present. But the synth tech seems to be 100 years in the future.
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Old 29-06-2015, 17:06
striing
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Police still driving Kia cars in the future then? Sadly most of the technology in the home and streets appears to be same as present. But the synth tech seems to be 100 years in the future.
100 years - really? Isn't it just a case of the focus that has been put on working on the synths by a few people who were capable of doing it? The fact that we flew to the moon in the 60s doesn't mean that all 60s technology was at that level - or even that all technology is at that level today. We know a synth costs £20K. It makes sense that most of the everyday stuff is much more mundane - and cheaper.
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Old 29-06-2015, 17:07
GodAtum
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Police still driving Kia cars in the future then? Sadly most of the technology in the home and streets appears to be same as present. But the synth tech seems to be 100 years in the future.
And the fit daughter was using a Microsoft Surface lol.
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Old 29-06-2015, 17:38
Charnham
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I thought the point of that scene was just to show how ordinary synths are in that world. Like we see electric car charging points (though admittedly they are only in limited areas at the moment).
if you company owns synths, you will have a charging point for them, heck even those working on a building site, could easily bring one with them, and plug in, rather than downing tools to go charge outside Next for a couple of hours.

Cars and synths are not 100% the same here, as cars take us to places to do something once we are at the shops we no longer need the car for a couple of hours, the synths do work at the place they go to.

Meanwhile if you send your synth out shopping, and it takes 2 hours due to charging you are going to wonder why its taking so long, we have nothing from Anita to suggest that she does not need to charge during the day, after her night charge. Its possible that older models dont have such a good battery of course.
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Old 29-06-2015, 17:50
striing
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if you company owns synths, you will have a charging point for them, heck even those working on a building site, could easily bring one with them, and plug in, rather than downing tools to go charge outside Next for a couple of hours.

Cars and synths are not 100% the same here, as cars take us to places to do something once we are at the shops we no longer need the car for a couple of hours, the synths do work at the place they go to.

Meanwhile if you send your synth out shopping, and it takes 2 hours due to charging you are going to wonder why its taking so long, we have nothing from Anita to suggest that she does not need to charge during the day, after her night charge. Its possible that older models dont have such a good battery of course.
What you say makes sense but I don't think everything is necessarily thought out to that degree ie I think they just wanted to show charging points in a shopping centre to show they are 'normal'.

There are loads of things you could pick up if you were going to question every bit of the story ie why did Greg wait until he got Niska back to his flat before saying his name and asking hers? In real life that would have happened in the bar but they wanted to show us Greg trying to interact with Niska and they probably preferred the flat setting. It is ultimately just a drama and something will be plot devices.
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Old 29-06-2015, 17:55
Charnham
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What you say makes sense but I don't think everything is necessarily thought out to that degree ie I think they just wanted to show charging points in a shopping centre to show they are 'normal'.

There are loads of things you could pick up if you were going to question every bit of the story ie why did Greg wait until he got Niska back to his flat before saying his name and asking hers? In real life that would have happened in the bar but they wanted to show us Greg trying to interact with Niska and they probably preferred the flat setting. It is ultimately just a drama and something will be plot devices.
fair enough, just something we are meant to accept to show that a synth can get a charge without needing an owner, and that she wasnt interested in talking to other synths. It just seemed odd to me when I watched it, and the more I thought about it, the less I could find a reason for such charge ports to exist.
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