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Humans - Channel 4
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Keviness
29-06-2015
The actress playing Anita is absolutely brilliant.
cedricthedog
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by Mitu_Pappi:
“Police still driving Kia cars in the future then? Sadly most of the technology in the home and streets appears to be same as present. But the synth tech seems to be 100 years in the future.”

Originally Posted by GodAtum:
“And the fit daughter was using a Microsoft Surface lol.”

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think the story is set in the future, rather that it's supposed to be an alternate reality, so the use of current/common car and IT devices is used to reinforce this, and in some ways add to the creepiness!
bokonon
29-06-2015
It is an interesting and enjoyable show.

Of course the theme of artificial consciousness is constantly being dramatized in science fiction. Is there any difference between a machine made from meat (our brains) and a machine made from electrical components (their brains)? At present it looks like the writers are suggesting there isn't, with the machines quite capable of exercising a range of emotions from compassion to murderous anger.
striing
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by bokonon:
“It is an interesting and enjoyable show.

Of course the theme of artificial consciousness is constantly being dramatized in science fiction. Is there any difference between a machine made from meat (our brains) and a machine made from electrical components (their brains)? At present it looks like the writers are suggesting there isn't, with the machines quite capable of exercising a range of emotions from compassion to murderous anger.”

I'm not getting that from it. I can't see the synths as human at all - they're missing so much. The only one that is getting close is the policewoman - and it's entirely possible she's not a synth but a crap actress.
Doctor_Wibble
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by striing:
“... and it's entirely possible she's not a synth but a crap actress.”

Or possibly a very good one
koantemplation
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by Keviness:
“The actress playing Anita is absolutely brilliant.”

I think all the synths are well acted. Rebecca Front is definitely good as a stern synth.

And the Niska synth does deranged well.
koantemplation
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by striing:
“I'm not getting that from it. I can't see the synths as human at all - they're missing so much. The only one that is getting close is the policewoman - and it's entirely possible she's not a synth but a crap actress.”

The hair cut doesn't help. Very synth like.
striing
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by koantemplation:
“The hair cut doesn't help. Very synth like.”

Exactly. The hair, the eyes, the movement. There is also a burn on her neck - I've been googling to see if that is the actress rather than the character but I can't find anything either way.

Spoiler
If IMDB has the number of episodes someone is in, is that definitely correct or could it be wrong this early in the series?
seejay63
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by Mitu_Pappi:
“Police still driving Kia cars in the future then? Sadly most of the technology in the home and streets appears to be same as present. But the synth tech seems to be 100 years in the future.”

It's an alternative present.

Originally Posted by striing:
“The fact that we flew to the moon in the 60s doesn't mean that all 60s technology was at that level - or even that all technology is at that level today.”

There's more technology in your mobile phone than was in the entire computer system which sent Apollo to the moon.
seejay63
29-06-2015
It's all a bit Stepford Wives isn't it?
koantemplation
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by striing:
“Exactly. The hair, the eyes, the movement. There is also a burn on her neck - I've been googling to see if that is the actress rather than the character but I can't find anything either way.”

Yes I wasn't sure if the burn on the neck was significant or not.

I don't think it shows if she is a synth or not. It doesn't really look like burnt plastic.
Charnham
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by bokonon:
“It is an interesting and enjoyable show.

Of course the theme of artificial consciousness is constantly being dramatized in science fiction. Is there any difference between a machine made from meat (our brains) and a machine made from electrical components (their brains)? At present it looks like the writers are suggesting there isn't, with the machines quite capable of exercising a range of emotions from compassion to murderous anger.”

The interesting idea that Niska raises, is that whilst some synths are more human than others, even without the group of synths who are much more human, its possible that some are more human than others, in that some react to the more human feelings they have, better than others.
striing
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by seejay63:
“There's more technology in your mobile phone than was in the entire computer system which sent Apollo to the moon.”

I suspect you are overestimating the quality of my mobile phone.

I was just using the moon landing as an example of something that happened at a time when most people were still washing their clothes by hand ie the fact that one thing can be done doesn't mean that all the other technology, or people's access to it, suddenly speeds up.
Charnham
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by striing:
“I suspect you are overestimating the quality of my mobile phone.

I was just using the moon landing as an example of something that happened at a time when most people were still washing their clothes by hand ie the fact that one thing can be done doesn't mean that all the other technology, or people's access to it, suddenly speeds up.”

its not impossible to believe that if a company had focused on the creation of syths, its not impossible for us to have synths today. The biggest difference between the machine workers of this world, and those in the show, is that they appear human, whilst the robots who build our cars are not built like that. Lets not forget we are on the cusp of self driving cars.
koantemplation
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by striing:
“I'm not getting that from it. I can't see the synths as human at all - they're missing so much. The only one that is getting close is the policewoman - and it's entirely possible she's not a synth but a crap actress.”

Yes I agree. Most of the synths seem very robotic. It is just Niska, Anita and the other synths that seem to have more human like emotion, and I believe that is because they have been created using human memories or personality transplant.
Doctor_Wibble
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by bokonon:
“... Is there any difference between a machine made from meat (our brains) and a machine made from electrical components (their brains)? At present it looks like the writers are suggesting there isn't, ...”

The way it comes across to me is not so much that they are saying there is no difference, but that there isn't a clear line between the two, deliberately muddying the waters.

If I am the sum of my experiences, what is the difference betwen me and a machine that has my brain copied into it? I have no illusions about my own integrity, I think if I woke up to find myself smarter, faster, stronger etc with super observational skills and a calculator brain I'd be off to the casinos with some cunning disguises... erm I mean off to save the world for the betterment of mankind...
Natarhi
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by striing:
“I meant are we suddenly supposed to accept that Mattie is fine with the fact that Anita is an atypical synth - but it was answered almost immediately - she hasn't just become fine with Anita because she saved Toby; she's still trying to find out what is going on (ie hacking into her).

I didn't quite understand how the others would recognise Mia either. Maybe Silas lied when he said he'd seen her and/or when he said he did a full wipe.”

I didn't understand why Mattie didn't go straight to her mum after Mia came out while she was hacking Anita. She knows that Laura is very suspicious of Anita.

Leo and Max had some conversation about scanning for Mia when they got to that warehouse place. I think they said something about 'base code' and Max said that would only work if someone *technology burble* so I didn't understand it but what I took from it was that whatever they were scanning for was something that would have been unaffected by the reset/personality wipe.

Originally Posted by Tishtoshtess:
“Im finding the mum equally as annoying as everyone else. Instead of saying "I think Anita is out to get me" (or something along those lines) why doesn't she construct a proper argument, "Anita isn't working as she should be..shes said this, shes done that, I've seen her doing this, so can we take her to the shop for testing please?"

Surely that would make more sense (but quite a short show!)”

She tried after the accident but used the most flimsy examples, that could be easily dismissed as her being paranoid. What she should have said in her argument was how Anita is not supposed to be able to touch the children without checking with an adult user, and furthermore Laura had given her a direct order to not touch Sophie, and yet she found Anita hugging Sophie. She could also have mentioned that Anita is not sharing with other synths like she is supposed to. Both of those things are objective faults that would at least warrant Anita being checked by a technician of some sort. Although maybe not to the moron father.

Originally Posted by solare:
“As from Odi, I'm worried him, out in the woods all alone - stuttering and running out of power!”

I can't understand why George thought that was a better thing to do with him. Surely he will very quickly run out of power? And we've already seen that once he shuts down it's incredibly difficult for him to start up again.

Originally Posted by Charnham:
“The interesting idea that Niska raises, is that whilst some synths are more human than others, even without the group of synths who are much more human, its possible that some are more human than others, in that some react to the more human feelings they have, better than others.”

Unless I've completely misunderstood something then as far as we've been told/shown at this point it is only the specific 4 or 5 synths who are "much more human" that have feelings at all. The rest of them do not, and are not even particularly good at recognising emotions in humans.
Doctor_Wibble
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by Natarhi:
“... *technology burble* so I didn't understand it but what I took from it was that whatever they were scanning for was something that would have been unaffected by the reset/personality wipe.”

Yes I'd need to check what they said but I think that was one of those things that just needed to sound technical and be noted to exist so they could search for it. Maybe a strange thing noted by a human checkout operator (there must be some left!) at the local supermarket and posted on e.g. a 'nutso customer demanding a single custard-flavoured chamomile teabag today' thread.

Quote:
“I can't understand why George thought that was a better thing to do with him.”

I think he just wanted to make sure he was nowhere near the accident scene but maybe expected to get back there sooner?
bokonon
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by striing:
“I'm not getting that from it. I can't see the synths as human at all - they're missing so much. The only one that is getting close is the policewoman - and it's entirely possible she's not a synth but a crap actress.”

Anita demonstrates empathy and compassion by understanding that she is disempowering the mother in the course of performing her duties. So she arranges for her to tell the bedtime story.
koantemplation
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by bokonon:
“Anita demonstrates empathy and compassion by understanding that she is disempowering the mother in the course of performing her duties. So she arranges for her to tell the bedtime story.”

Was that compassion or her trying to stop the mother from being too suspicious about her being 'human'?
bokonon
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by Doctor_Wibble:
“The way it comes across to me is not so much that they are saying there is no difference, but that there isn't a clear line between the two, deliberately muddying the waters.

If I am the sum of my experiences, what is the difference betwen me and a machine that has my brain copied into it? I have no illusions about my own integrity, I think if I woke up to find myself smarter, faster, stronger etc with super observational skills and a calculator brain I'd be off to the casinos with some cunning disguises... erm I mean off to save the world for the betterment of mankind...”

Yes I agree they are deliberately trying to blur the lines but often in a way that elicits sympathy for the synthetic humans.

The conditional 'if' is crucial to your second point because you are not just the sum of your experiences. You live in the present as a physical entity in relation to a physical environment and dependent on it in many respects. People overestimate their own autonomy in all kinds of ways. In that respect I agree that becoming more autonomous (smarter, faster) might make one less human but given the laws of physics pretty much any organism is going to be dependent on some external source of energy.
bokonon
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by koantemplation:
“Was that compassion or her trying to stop the mother from being too suspicious about her being 'human'?”

Well we shall see but in the script Anita told the mother the child had changed her mind and it was the child who revealed that Anita was behind the change of heart.
Paul237
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by striing:
“Who is trying to destroy them? Isn't the point that Danny Webb wants to work out how they work ie what the modification was? Of course, he also wants to make sure all the synths aren't modified in the same way or they won't work as synths.

I use words like 'dying' when referring to my kettle breaking. I might even be a bit sad if it's a kettle I particuarly like but I don't for one moment feel the same about my kettle 'dying' as I did when my mother died. Odi isn't dying in the human sense - he's dying in the same way a kettle/computer/car dies. The Dr is clearly ill and has over identified with the machine. It probably helps to explain why the replacement nurse is such a bitch. It would arguably be more cruel to give elderly people suffering from memory loss a kind machine they will have to lose when its battery wears out (or whatever) as they might not have the cognitive ability to realise it's just a machine ending. I still don't think the nurse should be that powerful though - that is frightening and I wouldn't want one near my relative or me. That shows the danger of replacing some jobs with a machine. A machine to pick fruit - fine but for nursing - risky.”

I think a medical synth would need that kind of strength for the reason we saw. Imagine if an ill person was in the bathroom then collapsed. If the medical synth couldn't get to them they wouldn't be much use. I imagine it's in their programming that they're only allowed to cause damage to property if they feel their patient is in direct danger, which Rebecca Front clearly did when she ripped the door off.
koantemplation
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by bokonon:
“Well we shall see but in the script Anita told the mother the child had changed her mind and it was the child who revealed that Anita was behind the change of heart.”

Yes but as far as Anita was concerned she was just telling the mother that the child had changed her mind, she didn't know that the daughter would tell the mother that Anita had asked her to choose the mother instead.

If the daughter had said nothing, then it would have just looked like Anita was passing on a message. But now, with the daughter saying what she did, it will look even more like Anita has a better understanding of how human emotions works.
striing
29-06-2015
Originally Posted by Natarhi:
“I didn't understand why Mattie didn't go straight to her mum after Mia came out while she was hacking Anita. She knows that Laura is very suspicious of Anita.”

I thought it was because mum told her not to hack into Anita. I also think she wants to find out what it means and knows full well her mum can't answer that so it makes more sense to post it on the forum.

Quote:
“I can't understand why George thought that was a better thing to do with him. Surely he will very quickly run out of power? And we've already seen that once he shuts down it's incredibly difficult for him to start up again.”

Didn't George say before that Odi knows things so he can't just be recycled as it will let out secrets (presumably about what George and Elster where up to with modifications). George knows Odi is broken but he can't bring himself to 'kill' him because he's anthropomorphised him - so the next best option is for him to power down somewhere where no one will find him (unlike in the house where he will be found).

Originally Posted by bokonon:
“Anita demonstrates empathy and compassion by understanding that she is disempowering the mother in the course of performing her duties. So she arranges for her to tell the bedtime story.”

There is a big difference between doing something and feeling it. I don't think she feels it. I do loads of things at work every day that look good/kind but I deliberately don't feel them - I wouldn't be able to do my job if I invested emotionally in the lives of the people I work with/for. That's a choice I make - I don't think Anita is choosing not to take on the emotion - she just doesn't have it because she's a machine.
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