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Old 20-07-2015, 18:47
striing
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Well said Thrombin .. you clearly waited until after the episode to provide us with a considered analysis of the Joe character!

I still can't believe the number of people who seem to be able to type a post during the showing of the episode! Problem is, if they were only ever watching with one eye on the TV in the first place, while the other was on their smart whatsit, then of course they're going to post damn fool questions in the vein of 'I missed so and so .. what happened?'!
What's with these silly comments? You sound ridiculous using the phrase 'smart whatsit'. You have already been told earlier in the thread that, incredible as this may seem, some people own both a TV set and a computer and for some of us posting on the forum is part of the fun of watching a show like this. No one is asking you to watch and post at the same time but you might want to think about how your comments make you come across. Just a thought.
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Old 20-07-2015, 19:23
SepangBlue
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You are clearly not on the forums during the show or immediately afterwards so 1. why do you care what other people are doing? Also while you seem unable to grasp the concept it is perfectly possible to type and concentrate on the action, the one person who asked what happened because they missed something said they "couldn't watch", it was 2. nothing to do with being too busy typing.
1. Because I see questions on here that, as someone who has watched the show all the way through before coming on here, I just want to yell at the computer screen "Bloody watch the programme, then you'll find out!"

2. In this specific instance I'll grant you are absolutely correct. However, I'm frequently seeing questions posted during shows, the answers to which are there just a few minutes later, if people would only bother to stay with it and actually watch!
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Old 20-07-2015, 19:28
Doctor_Wibble
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Perhaps we should all rummage in the props cupboard for some wigs, moustaches and shell suits and take upon our vocalities an accent reminiscent of those who inhabit the region proximate to the Mersey in an attempt to repeatedly suggest to one another the possibility of becoming somewhat less agitated, a method I recall most ably presented to the public by a certain Mr Enfield and his associates some decades ago and which continues to be relevant even today...
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Old 20-07-2015, 20:04
Natarhi
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That too, with an added because mistakes happen, so I think I will never eat at anyone's house ever again ever...
What a horrifying thought. *shudder*

not to be sexist, but dont we do that with regular women anyways? we dont have a woman for cleaning, and one for shagging, we do use the same woman for both the woman you ****ed last night is the same one who cooks yours kids breakfast, not sue why its suddenly a bad thing because its with a synth not a human female.
I think the comment was more relating to Joe trying to excuse his behaviour by saying Anita was just "a sex toy". Hence the (horrifying) tea towel analogy.

1. Because I see questions on here that, as someone who has watched the show all the way through before coming on here, I just want to yell at the computer screen "Bloody watch the programme, then you'll find out!"

2. In this specific instance I'll grant you are absolutely correct. However, I'm frequently seeing questions posted during shows, the answers to which are there just a few minutes later, if people would only bother to stay with it and actually watch!
I still say that having a chat online as the show goes along is not really any different to having a chat with someone in the room; if I'm watching a program with someone we might discuss and ask questions as the show goes along, and those questions might well be answered in the next 10 minutes on the show. We are watching the show to find out, just chatting as we do. I don't see the big deal.

I think the easiest solution would be for you to check the time of the posts and skip past any made during the show being on air (or if you're reading back through then just don't go further back than 10pm), then you won't get annoyed by what's written.
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Old 20-07-2015, 20:14
Mr Master X
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I looked at it more as protecting his family. They wouldn't let him stay to keep an eye on them,so he needed to do something. This is a world where modding synths for nefarious means is likely common. If he witnessed her like that (acting human) and not his wife, I doubt she'd have believed him either, right? To him it was just some nut jobs with an illegally modded synth that could be harmful to his family. Clearly as this episode shows, synths CAN get pretty out of control from modding. Ignore YOUR point of view watching the TV and see his; what's more likely "sentient synth" or "modded, threat to family" synth?

As for sex with the synth. He has no idea she's sentient. To him she was no different than a computerised masturbatory aid. In his defence there's no way on Earth he knew she was sentient and would never have done it with her had he known she was anything more than a material object. As to whether it's considered cheating...is a vibrator cheating? A blow-up doll? I think his family were way too harsh on him. Sure, WE know she's sentient, but to the people on the show they're walking Ipods.
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Old 20-07-2015, 20:29
striing
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I was a bit spooked by Fred's comment that humans underestimate him. He's the second synth we've seen do the door smashing thing and the second one strangle someone. Does this mean they can all do that give the 'right' conditions? If so that is pretty creepy. Sure I know some people will say all humans have the capacity to kill too but this seems much more abstract and therefore potentially dangerous. With people you can usually tell when they're about to flip.

I've also had a chance to see the bit with Leo's memories and noticed Elster is played by Stephen Boxer - I can't believe he won't be in at least one scene where he speaks so maybe there will be more reveal next week.
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Old 20-07-2015, 20:32
myss
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I thought the wife could have been a bit more grateful to Pete for rescuing her.
The actress playing Anita/Mia is fantastic.
Agree with all (the second relating to the Dad/Joe). One of the better episodes this week, still some scenes where commonsense seem to be taken out of situations but there you go.
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Old 20-07-2015, 20:45
GodAtum
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Maybe I'm being really stupid, but why are the synths so afraid of dying? Cant they upload to the internet, then they'll be immortal?
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Old 20-07-2015, 20:47
Westy2
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Stephen Boxer?

Wasnt he in one of those Itv lunchtime pre-school things years ago?
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Old 20-07-2015, 20:47
striing
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Maybe I'm being really stupid, but why are the synths so afraid of dying? Cant they upload to the internet, then they'll be immortal?
What makes you think they are afraid of dying?

I thought the point was that they want to be able to live without being captured?

Stephen Boxer?

Wasnt he in one of those Itv lunchtime pre-school things years ago?
Dunno - I've watched him in theatre for years. He's got a fabulous voice. Seems a waste to be on silent film but I suppose it's not impossible if it was a bit of (relatively) easy money which would subsidise more theatre work.
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Old 20-07-2015, 20:50
koantemplation
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Maybe I'm being really stupid, but why are the synths so afraid of dying? Cant they upload to the internet, then they'll be immortal?
I don't think they can upload themselves until they all get together an figure out what the images mean they are seeing.
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Old 20-07-2015, 21:32
Natarhi
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I looked at it more as protecting his family. They wouldn't let him stay to keep an eye on them,so he needed to do something. This is a world where modding synths for nefarious means is likely common. If he witnessed her like that (acting human) and not his wife, I doubt she'd have believed him either, right? To him it was just some nut jobs with an illegally modded synth that could be harmful to his family. Clearly as this episode shows, synths CAN get pretty out of control from modding. Ignore YOUR point of view watching the TV and see his; what's more likely "sentient synth" or "modded, threat to family" synth?

As for sex with the synth. He has no idea she's sentient. To him she was no different than a computerised masturbatory aid. In his defence there's no way on Earth he knew she was sentient and would never have done it with her had he known she was anything more than a material object. As to whether it's considered cheating...is a vibrator cheating? A blow-up doll? I think his family were way too harsh on him. Sure, WE know she's sentient, but to the people on the show they're walking Ipods.
Actually even a modded synth should not be able to hurt anyone. Niska and Fred only could because they have a human conciousness.

And as for the sex thing I do think it's a blurred line that's nothing to do with Anita being concious or not; while technically a synth could be argued not to be any different to a vibrator/fleshlight or blow-up doll I think most people, if they were confronted by their parter having sex with a synth, would feel it was different. It probably has to do with a synth being far more human-like in behaviour and appearance, and the fact that they are integrated into your home life and family in a way that other sex toys/aids are not.

I was a bit spooked by Fred's comment that humans underestimate him. He's the second synth we've seen do the door smashing thing and the second one strangle someone. Does this mean they can all do that give the 'right' conditions? If so that is pretty creepy. Sure I know some people will say all humans have the capacity to kill too but this seems much more abstract and therefore potentially dangerous. With people you can usually tell when they're about to flip.
I thought that scene was brilliant, the fact that his attack was such a surprise definitely made it more disturbing. I don't think Fred actually killed anyone though, he checked the pulse of the guy he strangled through the door so I assumed he had choked him just enough to make him pass out. I'm not sure I'd call it abstract, these were people who had been experimenting on him (perhaps painfully) and were holding him captive with the intention of capturing the rest of his family too. You can't really blame him for resorting to desperate measures to get away.

Maybe I'm being really stupid, but why are the synths so afraid of dying? Cant they upload to the internet, then they'll be immortal?
I don't think they could, no. They could perhaps save some memories to a computer file, but I doubt they could save their personality.
I don't think they can upload themselves until they all get together an figure out what the images mean they are seeing.
I thought that once they all get together they'll be able to figure out the code that gives them conciousness (as it seems they each have a piece of it), with the potential then to add that code to any normal synth and turn them concious. I don't think they'll be uploading themselves into the other synths or the internet.
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Old 20-07-2015, 23:50
Louise_
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I'm a bit confused about Niska... so she's only 9 but has the seemingly mental capacity of an adult. When these synths were created were they given adult personalities?

This also begs the question do you think each synth was created with a different personality/code that is unique to them or do you think they were all the same but their experiences have shaped them and altered their code to make them who they are? Or do you think it's a combination of both?
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Old 21-07-2015, 00:13
Natarhi
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I'm a bit confused about Niska... so she's only 9 but has the seemingly mental capacity of an adult. When these synths were created were they given adult personalities?
I don't think they were necessarily given adult personalities, I think it's more just that being a synth they have a knowledge of things/intelligence that we as humans would consider adult because of how long it would take us to learn the same information. Their brains are essentially super computers, so as soon as they were created they would have all that knowledge and processing power. Then I expect their personalities develop more over time, in a similar way to a child growing up. That's my take on it anyway.

This also begs the question do you think each synth was created with a different personality/code that is unique to them or do you think they were all the same but their experiences have shaped them and altered their code to make them who they are? Or do you think it's a combination of both?
That is basically a re-framing of the nature vs nurture question about human personality. My guess is a bit of both, I think that the code would be the same but would affect each synth slightly differently, and then their experiences would further shape them. For example Niska is more guarded and violent because of the abuse from her father and in the brothel, Mia is the most nurturing because she spent years taking care of Leo, Max seems the most naive and trusting which is probably because he was the youngest and always had the others looking out for him.
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Old 21-07-2015, 05:31
Alrightmate
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So despite seeing years of Leo's memories there was no sign of Karen there so it looks like she was created somewhere else, possibly by someone else.


Did someone else gain the knowledge to create the sentient synths from Elser?





There's obviously something wrong with Leo's memories of his Fathers death.


Leo believes his Father killed himself but I have a feeling Leo or one of the Synths actually killed him. Leo's memory of it was deleted/altered.
Well in the flashback of his memory you can just about make out the figure of Mia standing directly behind his father. Blink and you'd miss it. The framing and composition appeared to be deliberate so that some people might miss that on first glance.

The shot did seem to be composed to appear a little ambiguous with the intention to be revisited later on to fill in more of a complete story of what happened.
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Old 21-07-2015, 05:43
Alrightmate
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I'm a bit confused about Niska... so she's only 9 but has the seemingly mental capacity of an adult. When these synths were created were they given adult personalities?

This also begs the question do you think each synth was created with a different personality/code that is unique to them or do you think they were all the same but their experiences have shaped them and altered their code to make them who they are? Or do you think it's a combination of both?
I don't think it would work like that because personalities aren't really dependant on how old you are.
As Niska said in a previous episode to the William Hurt character, she would have no frame of reference. We do because we're human and can experience what it's like to be a child and an adult.
She's 9 years old in terms of from the date when she was created, but I don't think they would be programmed to specifically posses either adult or child personalities if such a thing exists.
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Old 21-07-2015, 09:18
Flash525
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With regard to none of the others having memories of Karen, is it possible that she is the one who altered/deleted Leo's memories, and that it was her (maybe) that killed Leo's father? This is assuming he was actually killed, and didn't kill himself like Leo believes (his memories could have been altered to save himself trauma).

Karen is the only sentient synth that doesn't seem to belong anywhere; she's been around long enough to position herself within the police force, but she's not being searched for by Leo and the group, so her existence is seemingly unknown. I suppose there's a chance (although unlikely) that she merely gained sentience via an accident or something, but there's a lot more about her - obviously.
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Old 21-07-2015, 09:49
Thrombin
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not to be sexist, but dont we do that with regular women anyways? we dont have a woman for cleaning, and one for shagging, we do use the same woman for both the woman you ****ed last night is the same one who cooks yours kids breakfast, not sue why its suddenly a bad thing because its with a synth not a human female.
I was thinking the same thing


With regard to none of the others having memories of Karen, is it possible that she is the one who altered/deleted Leo's memories, and that it was her (maybe) that killed Leo's father? This is assuming he was actually killed, and didn't kill himself like Leo believes (his memories could have been altered to save himself trauma).

Karen is the only sentient synth that doesn't seem to belong anywhere; she's been around long enough to position herself within the police force, but she's not being searched for by Leo and the group, so her existence is seemingly unknown. I suppose there's a chance (although unlikely) that she merely gained sentience via an accident or something, but there's a lot more about her - obviously.
If, as some have suggested, Leo's father isn't dead then Karen may be something he created since the others. She seems to be more advanced than the others in that she has more life-like eyes and can simulate eating and drinking. Perhaps she's part of some plan of his. She may know all about the others and is trying to find them in order to further some plan or other.
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Old 21-07-2015, 10:22
StressMonkey
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Dunno - I've watched him in theatre for years. He's got a fabulous voice. Seems a waste to be on silent film but I suppose it's not impossible if it was a bit of (relatively) easy money which would subsidise more theatre work.
Hmmm.

You do have a point. Does seem a waste.....

So, are we absolutely sure Eisler is dead and not a Synth himself? Or he is the thing that all of them need to get together to unleash?
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Old 21-07-2015, 10:22
jonparadise
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From what I could tell from the sequences, it was Mia behind Mad Prof Elster in that last one - I didn't think Leo was cornered and the couple of bits where the Prof was expressing anger weren't necessarily clear who he was angry at.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough, I meant the Prof looked corned, he looked surrounded by the synths.
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Old 21-07-2015, 10:26
Doctor_Wibble
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Sorry, I wasn't clear enough, I meant the Prof looked corned, he looked surrounded by the synths.
Ah OK that helps my incomprehension! And thinking about it in that light does raise some other possibilities about whodunnit and which might give a much better explanation of the memory footage, which after looking back at what was said previously I guess you were already hinting at anyway...

I can only fit so much backpedalling in the one post
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Old 21-07-2015, 10:38
striing
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I thought that scene was brilliant, the fact that his attack was such a surprise definitely made it more disturbing. I don't think Fred actually killed anyone though, he checked the pulse of the guy he strangled through the door so I assumed he had choked him just enough to make him pass out. I'm not sure I'd call it abstract, these were people who had been experimenting on him (perhaps painfully) and were holding him captive with the intention of capturing the rest of his family too. You can't really blame him for resorting to desperate measures to get away.
I meant unpredictable in the sense that there was nothing in his face/body that gave away that he was about to do what he did before he did it and also that the fact that he was that strong/potentially destructive was unknown; I'm assuming it was unknown - that seems to be what Fred was indicating by saying that Hobb was underestimating him. If Fred is right, and humans can't really conceptualise the fact that their creation surpasses them then the synths will always be unpredictable to humans.
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Old 21-07-2015, 11:12
Natarhi
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With regard to none of the others having memories of Karen, is it possible that she is the one who altered/deleted Leo's memories, and that it was her (maybe) that killed Leo's father? This is assuming he was actually killed, and didn't kill himself like Leo believes (his memories could have been altered to save himself trauma).

Karen is the only sentient synth that doesn't seem to belong anywhere; she's been around long enough to position herself within the police force, but she's not being searched for by Leo and the group, so her existence is seemingly unknown. I suppose there's a chance (although unlikely) that she merely gained sentience via an accident or something, but there's a lot more about her - obviously.
Anything's possible. That's an interesting idea, and Karen's going to have to fit in somewhere so it could be. However I'm not at all convinced Elster is really dead, it's exactly the kind of plot point that could be revealed at the end of this series to give an ongoing storyline for series 2.
If, as some have suggested, Leo's father isn't dead then Karen may be something he created since the others. She seems to be more advanced than the others in that she has more life-like eyes and can simulate eating and drinking. Perhaps she's part of some plan of his. She may know all about the others and is trying to find them in order to further some plan or other.
That would be a good answer too, at this stage it's hard to tell if Karen is so interested in the others because she knows who they are or just because she realises they must be like her and wants to meet them. But I'd be disappointed if it was the latter, she's got to be linked to Elster somehow.

I meant unpredictable in the sense that there was nothing in his face/body that gave away that he was about to do what he did before he did it and also that the fact that he was that strong/potentially destructive was unknown; I'm assuming it was unknown - that seems to be what Fred was indicating by saying that Hobb was underestimating him. If Fred is right, and humans can't really conceptualise the fact that their creation surpasses them then the synths will always be unpredictable to humans.
I wonder if it was unknown or if it was just kind of forgotten about. I can see how if you're used to synths being very passive and only using their strength in situations to help/save humans you might overlook the fact that one could break through a door at any moment. Hobb had all his guards around as a precaution but it seems to me that what he really underestimated was the fact that Fred was capable of deception and planning ahead (pretending to be friendly and chatty in order to distract Hobb from his plan to escape). I think the concious synths will be unpredictable to humans as long as humans think of them as synths, because when you categorise them as synths you subconsciously expect them to behave as normal synths do, you need to think of them as super smart, fast and strong people.
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Old 21-07-2015, 12:05
seejay63
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I reckon Hobb should gave ordered the two goons to go into the water and fish Max out. He's such a nice synth .. we're all rooting for him!
I hope he's ok. He's just adorable.
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Old 21-07-2015, 12:08
seejay63
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Stephen Boxer?

Wasnt he in one of those Itv lunchtime pre-school things years ago?
He was on Doctors for quite a while a few years ago. He was also in Garrow's Law.
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