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Humans - Channel 4 |
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#1701 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,075
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Quote:
They still haven't proved the new synths are conscious.
They are just using behaviorism to say they are conscious because they act more human than other synths. Also they are only acting more human because they have had real human memories implanted in them. The Chinese room argument rules out procedural coding as the basis for sentience. The Matrix like coding with the tree appearing in the coding is just visual stuff for us viewers. No idea where you got that they have had real human memories implanted in them? That was never shown. I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the "Chinese room argument" but even if it rules out coding as a basis for sentience in reality, this is science fiction; it doesn't have to follow our rules. ![]() Quote:
The writers needed to work at it. Anita was the central hook of the show; she was a mystery, potential danger and interesting. Then she became boring!
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#1702 |
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,009
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Why was William Hurt left out the credits of the last ep and Jill Halfpenny and Rebecca Front amongst others left in? :/
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#1703 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
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Such promise shown in the first few episodes and this is how it ended. Utter rubbish ending. Seems like the writer walked out of the programme half way.
Anita was the main interest. Bringing the others in ruined it. Leo was rubbish. There were too many synths to care for them as a viewer. They should have kept Anita as the main synth. Laura was useless as an actor and character. Her Tom brother killed guilt story was laughable. No one cared. The family in the end was too plain. Just ordinary. How they ruined a good story. This will go down in the books on how not to End a series 1. Anita/Mia was almost the main protagonist throughout the series, but in the last episode it was almost as if she was an extra. Niska too. Very prominent character who was building up over the series, but she too fizzled out in this episode and like Mia hardly had much to do. For some reason in the final episode they seemed to feel that Fred was more important, and the detective synth. Both characters who only really started to feature in the last couple of episodes. Plus I felt it was lacking the William Hurt character and his faulty synth. Their story in the series doesn't seem to have had much point in the grand scheme of things. That was a story thread which just stopped dead and only appeared to serve to give Niska a place to hide out for an episode or two. The Neil Maskell character too. It seems like his only real purpose in this series was to give the two kids a lift in the final episode. ![]() Still enjoyable, but I felt that there was no payoff. The story writers seemed to think that their family story of the couple getting back together was enough. It probably was enough for most people who like to watch television for comfort and familiarity, but not for me it wasn't. I think so much more could have and should have been done with the set-up they had here. Some characters seem to have been wasted. |
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#1704 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 12,226
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An ok series overall, but nothing amazing. Quote:
And Ewwww Neil Maskell and the synth at the end - yeuch.
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#1705 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,070
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Thoroughly enjoyed the series. Really looking forward to the next. There are plenty of "loose ends" to be carried over!
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#1706 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
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re Niska; I'm not convinced she's evil, but I am convinced that she'll create evil. She obviously has a copy of the code, and we know her intentions with it. I'm going to throw a prediction out here that she's going to play Frankenstein - she'll give consciousness to another synth and in turn, create some sort of monster which she and the others will need to stop. Said synth will likely do something bad (maybe kill one of the family) and then she'll learn that her intentions need some forethought before they're implemented.
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#1707 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,040
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When the young daughter was pretending to be Anita and said: "I'm sorry Mathilda, I don't understand the question", I thought for a moment that perhaps something had happened to her when Anita took her out that night. We still don't know why she did that.
Overall, I enjoyed the final episode but really wasn't interested in Laura's and Joe's relationship and the story about Tom. I hope they don't feature too much in series 2. I think it will be interesting now Leo and co. have split up. There's the opportunity to introduce new human characters and Niska is clearly a loose cannon intent on some kind of mischief. I missed George and Odi, though. I hope the writers find a way to bring one or both of them back for series 2. Perhaps Niska will be able to rescue Odi before he's scrapped and give him human feelings. |
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#1708 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,931
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I don't understand why people didn't like that episode - everything covered and plenty of scope for continuation - I would have been a bit disappointed if everything was 'resolved' and everyone had gone home for a nice cup of tea because those endings can feel very dead.
Pete and Karen was the closest thing to a 'sunset' ending but even there we have scope for uncertainty because we don't know if the resumed friendship will ever return to the 'benefits' side of things. Laura's final realisation that Niska probably has a copy of the magic beans was I think enough to take the edge off that 'happy family' bit - which when it started with showing only Mattie at the laptop and some odd male-sounding noises in the background I was wondering if a bit of Anita's memory had somehow got in there ![]() Niska will of course head for the highlands where she will create an army and paint herself with the blood of synths who 'willingly' sacrificed themselves though the initial effect will be spoilt by her misunderstanding and wearing a short tartan skirt instead of a proper kilt but fortunately someone spots it before it's too late... And now the runaways have money for clothes, boots and motorcycles which is just as well because a bunch of people wearing same-style wooly hats will always stand out from a crowd - one of whom I think almost recognised Niska. |
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#1709 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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Quote:
I'd be surprised if most reviews didn't slate this episode and express disappointment in it...
(Perhaps a difference in sensibilities between arts graduate reviewers and this science gradutate? Or maybe not.)Quote:
Yes, but I really think she was those things because of Mia being trapped inside her. Mia was never going to be as interesting as Anita, how could she be?
![]() Maybe they're saving that or similar for next season? I think the fact that she hugged Laura but wasn't going to - as Sophie pointed out to any audience members who might have missed it - say goodbye to the kids (not saying anything to Joe is more understandable) is going to be significant. |
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#1710 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,931
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Quote:
Anita was taking Sophie out to get her made into a cyborg. We seen at the end Sophie talking like a synth and cleaning the house, so that was her conversion complete.
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... For some reason in the final episode they seemed to feel that Fred was more important, and the detective synth. ...
The detective seems to have control over what happened in the virtual environment, not just participation, presumably programmed as 'mother' even there - and maybe required to be there to open the door and allow the kids to fly the nest, as it were. I'd guess the programmed maternal instinct overrode the desire to eliminate the free synths as that would also kill Leo. Quote:
... I missed George and Odi, though. I hope the writers find a way to bring one or both of them back for series 2. ...
* I would suggest 'in anecdotal form' is the natural state for a memory, not a 'file of facts'
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#1711 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 11,892
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I assume Voss's eyes are brown either because Elster specifically made them to be brown so she would look like Beatrice, or because she got contacts like Niska in order to blend in as a human.
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But we've seen there are public charging points. And they were in tents in the first episode so they must be okay outside.
I think they'd have wanted to get contact lenses in order to pass as human, and then other documents, eg to travel. Quote:
Hmmm, so the idea that free will is an illusion is unable to be proved or disproved. How do you know it's an illusion? Do you know it? Or have you made a free will decision to believe it
![]() Even if you think you have a non-physical soul and the soul makes all the decisions, that just begs the question. What rules is the soul subject to? How does the soul make its decisions? Do souls also have souls; is this an infinite regress? If souls have some mechanism that makes decisions directly, why can't humans have that mechanism directly too? Quote:
Interesting. So does that make us all robots then?
My experience is that I'm making choices. If I'm not making those choices, who or what is? Who or what has programmed me? Quote:
They still haven't proved the new synths are conscious.
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The Chinese room argument rules out procedural coding as the basis for sentience.
No, it doesn't. It just shows that Searle isn't as smart as he thinks he is. He thinks if the room as a whole understands, then some component of the room must being doing the understanding. That's not how it works.
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#1712 |
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,906
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:sorry rubbish:
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#1713 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,075
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#1714 |
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,884
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Confused by the whole flash drive thing; so they appeared to give Laura a hard drive (containing the secret coding?) which she hid in the airing cupboard. But Niska had a duplicate - or the real info & Laura's was blank.
Then Mattie seemed to discover that she had lost a flash drive - was this something else & what did it contain if so? Sorry, I couldn't follow it, if anyone can explain... |
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#1715 |
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Join Date: Oct 2014
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In the end and from reading peoples reactions i wonder if this series was targeted at the young adult generation that has been raised on Hunger Games, Twilight etc. easily pleased and liable to break into juvenile tears for no reason.
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#1716 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: nr Peterborough, England
Posts: 48,128
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Quote:
Confused by the whole flash drive thing; so they appeared to give Laura a hard drive (containing the secret coding?) which she hid in the airing cupboard. But Niska had a duplicate - or the real info & Laura's was blank.
Then Mattie seemed to discover that she had lost a flash drive - was this something else & what did it contain if so? Sorry, I couldn't follow it, if anyone can explain... |
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#1717 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 5,740
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Quote:
Confused by the whole flash drive thing; so they appeared to give Laura a hard drive (containing the secret coding?) which she hid in the airing cupboard. But Niska had a duplicate - or the real info & Laura's was blank.
Then Mattie seemed to discover that she had lost a flash drive - was this something else & what did it contain if so? Sorry, I couldn't follow it, if anyone can explain... |
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#1718 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 8,101
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I've enjoyed the series, it was left open ended for the second series which I'm looking forward to.
The only thing I couldn't understand was the lack of "come back" on the family. They were pretty much threatened if they helped then when they did nothing was done. Confused about that. With regards to the hard disc I just assumed 2 copies were made. |
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#1719 |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 13,064
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Why was William Hurt left out the credits of the last ep and Jill Halfpenny and Rebecca Front amongst others left in? :/
Maybe Hurt was paid per episode, and so was only credited for episodes that he appeared in. |
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#1720 |
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,884
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Quote:
I assumed that the flash drive which Niska had is Mattie's.
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#1721 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 649
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I would prefer my science fiction to be more science fictioney, however Humans was not a bad series and enjoyable in parts. The scenes I most enjoyed were with William Hurt and I do hope Odi can come back in some form.
The scenes I enjoyed least were with Laura and the family. Sometimes I wondered if I was watching a soap. The terrible guilt she felt about her brother and not being able to tell her husband seemed implausible. There were a lot of unexplained events and the last episode was boring and lack lustre. It could have been so much better but they seemed to drag it out and concentrate far too much on the family and not so much on the significance of the code and the synths and their past. I am not sure if the next series will throw more light on the outstanding questions but somehow I doubt it and to be honest I am not sure if I will watch if the last episode is anything to go by. |
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#1722 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65,806
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Quote:
So, colour me surprised!
(Perhaps a difference in sensibilities between arts graduate reviewers and this science gradutate? Or maybe not.)Well, we - but not most of the characters - could, for instance, have found out that Mia was indeed in control during her tryst with Joe. That would raise all sorts of questions; add anticipation of this secret coming out; pose a threat to, and therefore conflict with, Laura; give Mia internal emotional conflicts of her own; etc. Alternatively, maybe Mia's love for Leo is all-consuming making her possessive and seeing anyone else getting emotionally close to him (Karen, Mattie?) as a threat? Maybe they're saving that or similar for next season? I think the fact that she hugged Laura but wasn't going to - as Sophie pointed out to any audience members who might have missed it - say goodbye to the kids (not saying anything to Joe is more understandable) is going to be significant. |
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#1723 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,063
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Overall I enjoyed the series, and at very least C4 should be commended for at least trying something new and different.
The bits I enjoyed most where where I found myself contemplating the issues, would sh*gging a synth count as cheating? What actually 'makes' a human, where would it lead for Humanity if we could make things like that? Also, that Gemma Chan is lovely and the Niska! The little girl was a good actor too and William Hurt brought some gravitas.However, I did think the last epsiode was a bit weak. Hard to explain exactly why, it just needed a bit more...peril!? Some of the technology baffled me a bit....so we can make super advanced robots that will still need to charge themselves form a car charger!? And some of the family scenes I did find myself thinking it all seemed a bit Brookside rather than heavy hitting sci-fi. Finally the over-acting Leo rubbed me up the wrong way. |
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#1724 |
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 4,536
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Quote:
The most interesting bit was where Fred was conscious, but had no free will. It brought home you can't really be human without free will, whether you use it for good or bad, without it, people are just robots.
Otherwise, I was a bit disappointed with this episode, lots of loose ends, but then, I guess there needs to be to pave the way for the next series. Is the Swedish version available dubbed anywhere?
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#1725 |
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 779
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I endured it to the end but I won't be watching the second series.
After a promising start (as ever with most mini series) I thought it went downhill fast with implausible scenes and mediocre acting. I was glad to see the end credits, what a crock. |
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and the Niska! The little girl was a good actor too and William Hurt brought some gravitas.