[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark in Essex

I would not use it all the time to pay for things, but only for when I've been caught short and don't have my card on me (say maybe once a month).

Just as easy to grab cash and throw that over the counter or a debit card. I do not have a NFC card now anyway, My bank have at last decided to give me what I want, a standard chip and pin card.

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggyt

Waitrose, Wilkinson, Pumpkin...

Poundland, Nero, wetherspoons, Co-op

[Thine Wonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wb9999

When walking my dog I don't carry my wallet or coins, but I always have my phone. Sometimes I pass a shop or cafe and think it would be nice to get or coffee or a snack, but I don't have the means to pay. Paying by phone would be great for the odd time when you don't have any other way to pay.

With Home Depot it wasn't the payment system that was compromised. They stupidly stored the card details unencrypted in their POS database. Anybody with half a brain should have known that was a foolish thing to do.

Very niche market then, just take your card, get a phone case it slots into maybe? top up a starbucks or costa card and pop that in with your phone.

POS = point of sale! yes it was their till and payment processing systems. The point I'm making is that your mobile phone can be a lot less secure running an OS with a permanent internet connection than a dumb card. If we go down this route further there will be malware that pops up and asks for the users pin (and users are stupid) and all sorts of other problems down the line.

It isn't as if the contactless payment card system that we already have (unlike America), is an issue being 1-2mm thick and east to take anywhere.

What would be cool is keyring size contactless cards like you get for the supermarket self scan systems. Cards are bigger than they need to be now the mag strip is redundant and that would probably kill off the wallet!

[MTUK1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjb101

Maybe because in this country there is no real need? The Americans, from where this technology is driven to all intents and purposes didn't go for chip and pin. I'm going to assume - im guessing the next bit now - that they also don't have wave and pay cards either. It might be nice to do but you have a bit of plastic that does the same thing.

The Americans do have Contactless. They started rolling it out in 07 two years before us. And Chip Cards are being issued along with terminals in shops. By October this year if retailers don't have chip reading machines they will be liable for fraud on cards. Although initially it will be Chip and Signature in shops rather than Chip and Pin.

[MTUK1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Very niche market then, just take your card, get a phone case it slots into maybe? top up a starbucks or costa card and pop that in with your phone.

POS = point of sale! yes it was their till and payment processing systems. The point I'm making is that your mobile phone can be a lot less secure running an OS with a permanent internet connection than a dumb card. If we go down this route further there will be malware that pops up and asks for the users pin (and users are stupid) and all sorts of other problems down the line.

It isn't as if the contactless payment card system that we already have (unlike America), is an issue being 1-2mm thick and east to take anywhere.

What would be cool is keyring size contactless cards like you get for the supermarket self scan systems. Cards are bigger than they need to be now the mag strip is redundant and that would probably kill off the wallet!

America does have Contactless. They started it before us. The Magnetic Stripe will not be made redundant on cards until all countries worldwide have gone chip and pin.

[wb9999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Very niche market then, just take your card, get a phone case it slots into maybe? top up a starbucks or costa card and pop that in with your phone.

POS = point of sale! yes it was their till and payment processing systems. The point I'm making is that your mobile phone can be a lot less secure running an OS with a permanent internet connection than a dumb card. If we go down this route further there will be malware that pops up and asks for the users pin (and users are stupid) and all sorts of other problems down the line.

It isn't as if the contactless payment card system that we already have (unlike America), is an issue being 1-2mm thick and east to take anywhere.

What would be cool is keyring size contactless cards like you get for the supermarket self scan systems. Cards are bigger than they need to be now the mag strip is redundant and that would probably kill off the wallet!

Topping up a Starbucks or Costa card would be great, if the places I visit were either of those brands. But sadly the independent coffee shops near me don't have such facilities. There are occasions when people forget their cards - ask any petrol station.

Chip and pin/contactless terminals are susceptible to hacking so it would be wrong to assume a dumb card is safer. A mobile phone is probably no less secure than a terminal.

POS and payment systems are separate. It wasn't the payment system that was compromised at Home Depot - that was secure. The payment system has to be approved by a bank, but the POS doesn't.

[Mark in Essex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

Just as easy to grab cash and throw that over the counter or a debit card. I do not have a NFC card now anyway, My bank have at last decided to give me what I want, a standard chip and pin card.

How could I grab some cash or a card and throw it over the counter if I don't have any on me and I'm 2+ miles away from any?

[Thine Wonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wb9999

A mobile phone is probably no less secure than a terminal.

POS and payment systems are separate. It wasn't the payment system that was compromised at Home Depot - that was secure. The payment system has to be approved by a bank, but the POS doesn't.

I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement and I know about The Home Depot compromise.

A handheld software device in the hands of ordinary non tech users who install their own software on it is always going to be more insecure or susceptible to tricking the user than a fixed separate dumb card.

[wb9999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement and I know about The Home Depot compromise.

A handheld software device in the hands of ordinary non tech users who install their own software on it is always going to be more insecure or susceptible to tricking the user than a fixed separate dumb card.

I was involved as external POS consultant in the postmortem of a smaller, but very similar, data compromise with another US retailer. The reasons for these lapses in security are due to silly mistakes, complacency and old systems with lack of investment. I have to disagree with your disagreement

It's quite easy to get around the security concerns of using a mobile phone for payments, as Apple has done with Apple Pay. The actual card details don't need to be stored on the phone. This makes it more secure than a card, which displays the card number and security code for anyone to see and copy. A card is a 1960s invention that isn't fit for purpose in the 21st century.

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark in Essex

How could I grab some cash or a card and throw it over the counter if I don't have any on me and I'm 2+ miles away from any?

Make sure you got it on you. I can not see how anyone can manage without some cash. Maybe it is because i live in a small city and we do not have the infrastructure like many larger cities. But I could not go out of the house without some cash, certainly at the moment where I rely on the bus to get me into town.

[Mark in Essex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

Make sure you got it on you. I can not see how anyone can manage without some cash. Maybe it is because i live in a small city and we do not have the infrastructure like many larger cities. But I could not go out of the house without some cash, certainly at the moment where I rely on the bus to get me into town.

Have you never been out somewhere where you think "I don't need any cash" like going for a walk somewhere and then see a shop somewhere and think "it's got a bit hotter now and I fancy a drink". Or just totally forgotten to take your wallet with you?

I don't even live in a city - I live in a town.

I guess it's because you use the bus and need it for that, but sometimes I jump in the car to work and realize half way through the day I've forgotten to put my wallet in the car (sometimes a lot of rushing around in the morning with 6 year old twins).

[tealady]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark in Essex

Have you never been out somewhere where you think .... I've forgotten to put my wallet in the car (sometimes a lot of rushing around in the morning with 6 year old twins).

Should have been a boy scout !

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark in Essex

Have you never been out somewhere where you think "I don't need any cash" like going for a walk somewhere and then see a shop somewhere and think "it's got a bit hotter now and I fancy a drink". Or just totally forgotten to take your wallet with you?

I always carry cash, even if I am going out for a walk. I have never forgotten to take my wallet with me, now my mobile I have forgotten that a few times.

Quote:

I don't even live in a city - I live in a town.

Just because Hereford is called a city, do not think for one minute it is large, only a small place.

Quote:

I guess it's because you use the bus and need it for that, but sometimes I jump in the car to work and realize half way through the day I've forgotten to put my wallet in the car (sometimes a lot of rushing around in the morning with 6 year old twins).

Last year I was walking everywhere in the city, I would only use a bus if I had a lot of shopping, once i get back to normal I will be walking again, but is too expensive. But unlike some places our buses do not have a contactless way to pay, it is cash only. I think First must have some form of reader, but I think it is only for their day, week or month past. The buses up here do not have that as it is a local company.


If I do not take my wallet out with me I feel lost to be honest.