You can't say that. The franchise has grown. It's now watched worldwide in over 85 countries. LEGO are even making TWO LEGO Doctor Who sets based on it now; that surely shows how big the franchise has become.

Does any of this stuff about two potential candidates turning it down come from an official source?

In my opinion the most likely thing is that Moffat has simply decided to stay on, something which is (sadly for me) well within his rights.

It was watched worldwide long before Moffat took over! And I think Lego's going to have to go some to beat the sales of the remote control Dalek that hit the shops for Christmas 2005.

The point I am making is about the production of episodes and spin-off shows. In my opinion a lack of time-commitment from Moffat has meant, very simply, there has been a lot less Who on TV since he took over. The show feels smaller somehow.

We have fewer Who episodes each year and no spin-off shows, and perhaps a new show-runner would have more time to develop spin-offs and ensure the consistent production of Doctor Who itself.

But, as I said originally, its not all bad. I think season 8 was a vast improvement and so I'm not devastated that he's staying on. A little disappointed, perhaps.

However, from what other people have been posting it does sound a little as though Doctor Who is considered something of a poisoned chalice by other top writers and that's a great shame.

It wasn't watched in as many countries as it is now. And it wasn't considered a worldwide success; certainly not big enough for LEGO to consider making Doctor Who sets.



Pfft. LEGO will beat those sales easily. LEGO are much more popular than Character's remote control toys.

The show was a worldwide success by the 1970s!

And new Who was being watched all over the world by the time RTD left the show. David Tennant was being greeted like a rock style whenever he appeared at fan conventions or comic-con events around the world. This is how he was greeted by fans in San Diego in 2009 (3 mins in). The idea Doctor Who became an overnight success in 2010 is just preposterous.

It really wasn't.

I sent two emails to LEGO when RTD was in charge suggesting they make LEGO Doctor Who sets and both times I got the reply that it wasn't global enough. LEGO know more than any of us what is and isn't a worldwide success.

Mmmm, delicious salt. More popcorn, please!

2 things I know about Lego;

Growing up in the Seventies, it was still vaguely popular, but once we got that thrilling ping pong game you could play on the telly, it was history. And;

Standing on a piece when you were barefoot *really* hurt.


You're welcome.

Sorry. That made me laugh out loud. The idea Doctor Who has only just become an international success and the proof is a Lego email.

Perhaps if you can't name the show runners then you could name the shows that you speak of? The only other noteworthy British sic-fi show that I can think of off the top of my head is Fortitude (at a push), and the producers and writers are probably quite busy making that.

I would say that the show was successful on an international scale many, many years ago. A good number of people elsewhere could have identitifed Tom Baker as "Doctor Who" or would have at least recognised the design of a Dalek, even if they didn't know what they were by name.

I personally think that's the difference. Whilst it was successful many yesteryears ago, it was still nonetheless quite a niche show, and rather cult status outside of the UK. That's no slight against the show, back then far fewer shows broke international levels of recognition at all. But it has only been since the revival that it has caught on with mainstream audiences and has been revered globally. You can think what you like of RTD and/or Moffat but the truth is that both of them have done a good job at putting the show out to a worldwide audience.

It's Moffat whose overseen the development really, but RTD who laid the foundations for it to get there. It's hard to deny the fact that it is bigger now than it ever really was before, and that's backed up by the fact that it's being continually distributed to more and more countries each and every year. It's second only to Top Gear (though it's a long way off from that level of global distribution) for the BBC - the 50th anniversary holds the world record for being simulcast in 94 countries, whilst the typical episode gets an average of 110 million viewers on a global scale in its first month of broadcast.

I don't think I'm ever going to agree with some of the views on this forum/in this thread about when New Who became internationally successful.

Classic Doctor Who wasn't originally a niche show. I think it became so in its later years, but in the 60s, 70s and early 80s it was prime time family viewing. And those viewing patterns were replicated around the world - it was a family show, not a niche sci-fi fan favourite.

The show's current popularity continues to grow around the world, but RTD did more than just lay the foundations for that. He left a show in 2010 that was already an international hit. And I personally think it sad that so many fans on here refuse to acknowledge that early success.

All that's happened since then is a continuation of that upward trend. Some of the countries where the show is now broadcast haven't even reached the Matt Smith episodes yet but we would still be expected to count that success as Moffat's.

I also think there is some confusion as to the role RTD/Moffat play in this. They produce a popular product and one that can be sold profitably around the world. But they certainly don't play a role in where/how it is sold or how it is marketed.

In recent years there have been such shows as misfits, being human, in the flesh, black mirror (which features sci fi concepts on most of its episodes), life on mars/ashes to ashes, not to mention channel 4's new upcoming show 'humans' about a society which has domestic robot servants, and is currently being heavily advertised. I could mention many more if we were just talking about good writers in general (given that RTD wasn't exactly known for sci fi prior to the show, so anyone who is a good writer in general could be a potential candidate)

My main point is that when people moaned or still do, about RTD leaving people jump on them to shout 'the show is all about change' and another one i've heard from Moffat defenders is 'people who only liked the RTD stuff are just RTD fans rather real doctor who fans' or 'the show existed for many years before RTD came along'. Equally all of these points can be said about Moffat in relation to why it's crazy to act as though the show's continuation and fate is all down to one man.

I really can't believe that if Moffat wanted to, or for some personal reason had to just up and quit tomorrow that the show would just fold overnight.

Completely agree with everything you have said here. Series 8 was an improvement, but it feels like there still yet to be a series which as a whole matched any of the RTD one's. It's as though the show was left by someone who knew exactly how to competently write a story arc and make a series work as a whole, and given to a person who has been trying to experiment on how to do it as well ever since (evident by all the format changes) and hasn't quite gotten there yet. But yes, series 8 was an improvement on that front, and like you I stay open minded because basically, what else can you do? Having the show is better than no show at all, and we still get some good individual episodes, but I would like to think that in the future that it could hit, what I personally perceive to be the quality highs of the RTD era.

Also before anyone says it, I'm not trying to bash Moffat exactly, I'm saying I want him to produce quality, I want to be able to praise his latest series and how it perfectly worked as a whole, but unfortunately that oppourtunity hasn't arisen for me yet.


You can't honestly believe that lego is the ultimate marker of a succesful show. If that is the case I suppose you'll have to go and tell all the many shows around the world that think they are successful because of there good ratings, critical praise, and dvd sales that actually, if there hasn't been a lego set made of their show then they are wrong and will actually be facing immenent cancellation soon.


Again I agree with you. RTD created a successful revival of the show which at that time never seemed to be out of the papers and often seemed to be in general conversation. Then, when thanks to those initial years it was already solidified as a success and sure to return year on year, the bbc then began more and more marketing it worldwide.

There has been no magical jump in quality since 2010.I personally think there has been the opposite, but If I was trying to look objectively without my personal feelings involved, I would say that the quality has roughly stayed the same since 2005 to now

What I absolutely believe though, is that those first few years were crucial. Think how Rose was so perfectly balanced. It invited in new audience members such as myself whilst being completely respectful to established fans. As such I feel that RTD's contribution is the reason the show is still on air today, and that had Moffat been the show runner from the start, and series 5 had been series 1, I doubt the show would have ever made it this far.

That is the precise reason why I want to see Moffat leave the show very soon. If this was a show that Moffat had created in 2010 starring Smith, Gillan, etc and now starring Capaldi and Coleman, I would see no problem with him staying on as long as he liked, as ultimately it's his creation. But ultimately, it isn't. It's Doctor Who, a show which Moffat did not create. His role is simply it's current maintainer.

When RTD the show back, it was amazing, brand new and made me fall in love with the show. Fast forward four years, and RTD's style was getting stale. By the time of The End of Time, it was clear that RTD needed to go in order for the show to continue. I respect him for getting out at the right time, even if his grand finale wasn't to my tastes. Then Moffat took over, and made me fall in love with the show all over again, giving it that much needed refresh.

The problem is that for me, Moffat has already reached that point in his era and we need another refresh, and while I thought staying on for series 9 was reasonable, news that he had stayed on for a sixth season has made me lose all respect for the man.

Hmm Charlie Brooker does Doctor Who. Now there's a tantalising thought. I wonder why he hasn't written an episode yet? He is a lifelong fan after all…

Humans is a co-production between C4 and AMC so it will be interesting to see how that works out too.

Not really sure if your comment there is genuine or somehow sarcastic, but based on black mirror, I think he would be great as a guest writer for a dark episode.

I'm in agreement there. I've been hoping he'd write an episode for absolutely ages. It would be very dark and very funny, ultimately probably quite depressing but in a good almost comforting way.

A girl can dream! Maybe one day.

My comment was genuine. I would love to see a Charlie Brooker episode as I thought Black Mirror was great.

Cool.

Why in the world is your level of a show's success based on whether or not Lego does a set for it?


Under RTD, we had:

- Doctor Who
- Torchwood
- The Sarah Jane Adventures
- Animated Doctor Who (The Infinite Quest and Dreamland)


Under Moffat we have:

- Doctor Who


I really enjoyed the spin-off shows. They were great. The tie-in episodes were a lot of fun. The Doctor Who universe was expansive. Now, it is much smaller.

Also, Moffat keeps trying to be way too clever for his own good and the storytelling has greatly diminished on the show. Series 5 was pretty good (when he kept it reasonably non-convoluted), but Series 6 just got weird and Series 7 sucked. I haven't even watched Series 8 as of yet.

One of the nice things about Doctor Who is that, if you don't like a Doctor or a companion or a show runner, you can just wait because they will be gone in three or four years on the outside. Unfortunately, my friends and I (we have discussed this at length and we all are of the same opinion on Moffat) have been suffering through Moffat for four Series (five years with the split in Series 7) and now we are being told that we have to wait at least two more years before we can watch an episode by a new showrunner. Sigh.

He has way overstayed any welcome that he may have ever once had.

But this is all your own opinion which of course you're entitled to. But it isn't fact. You can't claim that he has outstayed his welcome because that sentence is entirely relative. Just because you voice your opinion in a smug self satisfied way doesn't make it universal.

If you want to stick to facts, sure. Let's stick to facts:


Under RTD, we had:

- Doctor Who
- Torchwood
- The Sarah Jane Adventures
- Animated Doctor Who (The Infinite Quest and Dreamland)


Under Moffat we have:

- Doctor Who


That is all fact. The Doctor Who universe has shrunk under Moffat. Significantly.



In my opinion, that is not good for the show.

Oh, and, by the way, yes, my opinions are my opinions, but they are held by many others. Attacking them as only opinions does not change that fact.

Try debating the facts of how the show got smaller and not attacking my opinions, why don't you?

If you state your opinions on a public forum then you are leaving them open for scrutiny and debate. I'm not going to pretend I'm above the general ethos of bitching and moaning this forum adopts so I shan't be apologising for that.

Again, it's all relative. I don't know enough about the worldwide appeal of the show to attack you with facts and figures. I understand the popularity has waned in recent years but I hardly think Moffat can be solely to blame for that. Odds are, it's the Tennant fangirl morons that only watched it because he was in it. I know a few people that just stopped watching when he left. They never even bothered with The Eleventh Hour. Maybe the appeal hasn't diminished, it was probably never there in the first place.

Again, just my opinion. Probably and almost definitely total bullshit. Do calm down love!

If you preferred series 5 then you might actually like series 8 as well. I would say it's closer to your description of series 5 (reasonably non-convoluted) than series 6 or 7.