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How does 3 detect tethering abroad?


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Old 17-05-2015, 17:31
JamieEarl
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Hello,
Unsure if anyone will have experience with this issue but recently 3 has offered its customeres free internet when abroad. GREAT!

Now this is allowed on your own device and is not allowed/Blocked on tethering. Does anyone know how this is detected/How fast they are at blocking?

The only reason I ask is in summer I will be driving to Spain, I have a Tomtom Go500 that tethers to your phone for traffic updates and POI, it uses minium amount of data but I would love to use this as its a great feature.. (It also uses a tiny amount of data amonth).

I have read online that they check what browser you use and that connecting things such as an iPad/Other mobile device can go under the net. I am wondering if a Tomtom devce would also slide underthere...

If you've had any experience that would be great!

Thanks,
Jamie
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Old 17-05-2015, 18:00
d123
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Three have spent a lot of money updating their systems, how and what they do to detect tethering (and they have become very efficient at it) has never been made public and I doubt Three will ever publicise how their system works.
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Old 17-05-2015, 21:04
InfamousTeal
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On android anyway, three are installing a new setting into phones with lollipop, that tethering traffic must go through a certain APN.

Normal traffic goes through the normal three.co.uk APN, tethering traffic must go through an APN of type "dun". (Type is an attribute of each APN, near the bottom)

The 3Hotspot APN is of type "dun".
The three.co.uk APN is not.

All traffic going through this APN, three knows is tethering traffic, because the phone is set to require "dun" for tethering.

That is my basic understanding , from real life, of how tethering works and is detected by three

As for iPhone, it's in the carrier profile - which, it being an apple device, cannot be altered. For me, tethering is always detected on an iPhone .
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Old 17-05-2015, 21:10
jabbamk1
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Three have spent a lot of money updating their systems, how and what they do to detect tethering (and they have become very efficient at it) has never been made public and I doubt Three will ever publicise how their system works.
Do a bit of reading around products and services offered by Velocent Systems and Procera (Packet Logic).

There are a few white papers you can find through google as well as website info that can help.
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Old 17-05-2015, 21:14
lightspeed2398
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Do a bit of reading around products and services offered by Velocent Systems and Procera (Packet Logic).

There are a few white papers you can find through google as well as website info that can help.
I've seen a couple of things about this and I seem to recall you mentioning them before. Is the Velocent one the monitoring one where they can see monitoring statistics about congestion and the like?
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Old 17-05-2015, 22:38
jonmorris
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As more and more people get Lollipop, and don't know how to root and change APN settings, Three won't even need to worry about tethering detection - as the phone will be just like an iOS device. Enable tethering, and it's using different settings so knows straight away.

It might also make setting up some handsets a bit more tricky. When Sony first issued updates for the Xperia Z3 to Lollipop, it didn't set up the tethering settings so when you enabled tethering (even on a One Plan account) it simply didn't work. Or should I say, it worked but you couldn't send/receive any data over the tethered connections.
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Old 18-05-2015, 08:13
Thine Wonk
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Hello,
Unsure if anyone will have experience with this issue but recently 3 has offered its customeres free internet when abroad. GREAT!

Now this is allowed on your own device and is not allowed/Blocked on tethering. Does anyone know how this is detected/How fast they are at blocking?

The only reason I ask is in summer I will be driving to Spain, I have a Tomtom Go500 that tethers to your phone for traffic updates and POI, it uses minium amount of data but I would love to use this as its a great feature.. (It also uses a tiny amount of data amonth).

I have read online that they check what browser you use and that connecting things such as an iPad/Other mobile device can go under the net. I am wondering if a Tomtom devce would also slide underthere...

If you've had any experience that would be great!

Thanks,
Jamie
I think you can download the POI beforehand and I wouldn't bother with traffic abroad. You won't be able to tether, but you could always get a mifi device or a local sim when you're out there.
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Old 18-05-2015, 10:36
grumpyoldbat
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Why not just put a maps app on your phone and use that as the GPS? Make sure it's one where you have all the maps installed on the phone and you won't need any data.
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Old 18-05-2015, 10:59
jonmorris
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I now use the TomTom app (or CoPilot) so don't need to tether for traffic, which was always hit and miss with standalone satnavs. Traffic abroad is just as useful as at home.

Indeed, I often use my satnav for traffic updates not actual navigation (I know the route already).
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Old 18-05-2015, 14:19
SkipTracer
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The Tom-Tom Go 40, 400, 50, 500, 60 and 600 amongst others use Bluetooth PAN tethering to connect to your phone so can they detect this?

Had my Go400 connected to an old San Francisco Blade using BT PAN and a 3, 3-2-1 sim for over a year with no problems.
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Old 18-05-2015, 18:51
Thine Wonk
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I now use the TomTom app (or CoPilot) so don't need to tether for traffic, which was always hit and miss with standalone satnavs. Traffic abroad is just as useful as at home.

Indeed, I often use my satnav for traffic updates not actual navigation (I know the route already).
Well, if you're on holiday it's not like you've got appointments, meetings, times to meet. The OP could always check traffic on the phone that's what I mean. Generally it isn't such a big issue or it could be easily worked around by checking traffic on google maps or using satnav on the phone as you say.

I use google maps navigation and I always wonder why people go with external TomToms devices as everything you need is on the phone including traffic, maps, it is just brilliant, even lane guidance was added recently, and since Google acquired Waze it has began adding more and more.
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Old 18-05-2015, 18:54
Thine Wonk
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The Tom-Tom Go 40, 400, 50, 500, 60 and 600 amongst others use Bluetooth PAN tethering to connect to your phone so can they detect this?

Had my Go400 connected to an old San Francisco Blade using BT PAN and a 3, 3-2-1 sim for over a year with no problems.
I can't see bluetooth working around it, it's still tethering and it's still another device / different user agent.
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Old 18-05-2015, 19:09
moox
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I use google maps navigation and I always wonder why people go with external TomToms devices as everything you need is on the phone including traffic, maps, it is just brilliant, even lane guidance was added recently, and since Google acquired Waze it has began adding more and more.
For the same reasons why people buy digital cameras, audio recorders, computers, etc. Smartphones are fine in general for these tasks but the ultimate performance is always found in a dedicated device

At least with TomTom you don't have to worry about sluggish performance, data plans, mobile signal availability, battery life (unless you buy a car charger), mounting (another extra, etc - and you can give it to someone and they can use it straight away.
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Old 18-05-2015, 19:16
Thine Wonk
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For the same reasons why people buy digital cameras, audio recorders, computers, etc. Smartphones are fine in general for these tasks but the ultimate performance is always found in a dedicated device

At least with TomTom you don't have to worry about sluggish performance, data plans, mobile signal availability, battery life (unless you buy a car charger), mounting (another extra, etc - and you can give it to someone and they can use it straight away.
I don't, I dock my phone in the car on the charger and I'm on Three so I get data coverage everywhere. You only need data when programming the destination, not even that if you download the sections of the map for offline use, if you want traffic updates it'll grab those along the way. My LG G3 and performance wise it is great, probably much better than a slower satnav.

You have to mount a tomtom, you have to pair it, charge it, give it data so I don't see your point at all. I could understand with a digital camera with a really good lens etc, but not with a satnav as everything you said that applies to the phone applies to the satnav.
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Old 18-05-2015, 19:19
moox
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I don't, I dock my phone in the car on the charger and I'm on Three so I get data coverage everywhere (you only need it when programming the device anyway). It's an LG G3 and performance wise it is great.

You have to mount a tomtom, you have to pair it, charge it, give it data so I don't see your point at all. I could understand with a digital camera with a really good lens etc, but not with a satnav as everything you said that applies to the phone applies to the satnav.
"docking your phone" suggests you've bought a cradle or something, which most people haven't and would need to buy to use it as a proper car GPS.

Yes, 3 coverage is good, but again, not everyone has 3, there are places where 3 doesn't work and Google Maps would just sit there and say nothing, or in this case you will be roaming and it might be iffy or unavailable (whereas you can buy country/Europe maps for TomTom and download them on a good connection).

You don't have to pair/charge/connect it to the internet if you don't want to. You'd probably have the thing plugged into the car anyway while driving, and the more higher end TomToms have SIM cards/GSM modems anyway for traffic information and other stuff - TomTom may well have worked out a deal for Europe roaming similar to how a Kindle with 3G will work anywhere in Europe at no additional cost - and even without any of this, it'll still work fine for navigation, just no traffic data.

With a TomTom you can pop into Halfords, buy everything you need as a single kit and start using it. With a phone you have to buy cradles, chargers and whatnot
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Old 18-05-2015, 20:28
Thine Wonk
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£18 and a lot cheaper than an external satnav, which you also need a cradle or mount for, you can get the suction cup ones if you prefer just like the satnav mounts.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...ilpage_o05_s00

Also as pointed out, you can download maps to store offline and signal is available 99% of the time and is only needed when setting destinations. Just pre-download sections on google maps navigation, it is all available, as is lane guidance now and voice navigation is much better as it says things like "turn left into Lisson Grove, then right into Arnos Way". It is totally free to smartphone owners with totally free traffic updates. You can also put businesses in and it is updated frequently by crowdsourced data in terms of map corrections and traffic / time estimates by using smart crowdsource data.

It's a no brainer really, better and free and global maps and the OP wouldn't have the tethering issues.
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Old 19-05-2015, 09:04
JamieEarl
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Hello,
The mapping I can use offline using the tomtom but the traffic alerts are nice to have abroad, if it wasn't for this in February (When I was paying for data with T-Mobile ) we could of missed our ferry. As as soon as traffic is detected it would alert and auto reroute. Some cases the traffic was updated 2 seconds after the closed lane signed would come on!

I have used some iPhone profile creators at work, editing the apn will have a play with that today and see if that will make a difference. I will see if I tether up and check of my data allowance for tethering goes down.. (Not scientific but may work).

I used to push google maps always on people as in my opinion it is the best and it is free but when abroad you're already feeling uneasy on their roads and the tomtom has a beautiful clear indication of where to turn and what exit to take, unlike Google maps as this isn't as clear.

Jamie
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Old 19-05-2015, 13:22
Jack_Wilson2
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"How does 3 detect tethering"

It doesn't matter if it's abroad or not...

(They'll always be a few who get away with it, i've seen people on here admitting to tethering on the All-in-One 15 which isn't officially aloud most are greeted with a 'Sim Block' page some ain't)

- IMEI's
- BIA ID's such as MAC ID's, Serial Numbers
- HTTP Headers
- User Agents
- IP addresses on the network remember (Each device has a internal IP and external) your connected to three's connected and no doubt can discover devices connected to your phone as being the provider.
- A technique called DPI (Deep Packet Inspection) and inspecting packet data
- APN's (Which has been mentioned above)
- IP lookups and NS lookups and geolocating I.E if your connected to microsoft update servers on a android phone it's a bit obvious you're tethering to update windows.
- There's also digital footprint techniques they can use.

There's loads of techniques providers use to detect tethering that was just a few....

Of course everything can be 'bypassed' but that won't be shared here.
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Old 19-05-2015, 16:19
JamieEarl
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I used to be one of them bad people who would get a mobile sim card, put it in a dongle and use it. Done this with 3/Giffgaff and T-mobie. One of the best deals was 6 months of "Unlimited FUP" Data from T-mobile for £20. I would then put this simcard in to a Mi-Fi device/Dongle and use it. Never once was stopped even when hitting 10Gb a month on a 500mb fup.

Recently I've never needed to tether as my phone does everything my laptop did 4 years ago.
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Old 20-05-2015, 19:50
JamieEarl
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Update!

I have from advice from someone released that when turning on the "Portable Hotspot" feature on my iPhone that it dials out on a "3Tethering" APN.. Tried using the iPhone configurator to edit the APN. I can edit my devices APN but it doesn't give the option for editing the Tethering APN :/... Shame.
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Old 20-05-2015, 20:16
Thine Wonk
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Update!

I have from advice from someone released that when turning on the "Portable Hotspot" feature on my iPhone that it dials out on a "3Tethering" APN.. Tried using the iPhone configurator to edit the APN. I can edit my devices APN but it doesn't give the option for editing the Tethering APN :/... Shame.
It doesn't matter, there are other methods of detecting it as posted above.
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Old 20-05-2015, 20:35
moox
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It doesn't matter, there are other methods of detecting it as posted above.
They certainly don't seem very consistent though. I have two 3 PAYG SIMs, without unlimited data addons. One works fine in any device, even a 3 branded dongle, the other works fine in any device except a 3 branded dongle.

Types of traffic, user agents, doesn't matter - all works once you overcome the initial IMEI detection.

I'm going to assume that they don't care too much because I don't have unlimited data and at an effective rate of £10 a gig they're either going to make a ton of money or not have much load on their network at all from me
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Old 20-05-2015, 21:05
jabbamk1
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They certainly don't seem very consistent though. I have two 3 PAYG SIMs, without unlimited data addons. One works fine in any device, even a 3 branded dongle, the other works fine in any device except a 3 branded dongle.

Types of traffic, user agents, doesn't matter - all works once you overcome the initial IMEI detection.

I'm going to assume that they don't care too much because I don't have unlimited data and at an effective rate of £10 a gig they're either going to make a ton of money or not have much load on their network at all from me
How old is the one that works in any device and how new is the one that doesn't?
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Old 20-05-2015, 21:10
moox
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How old is the one that works in any device and how new is the one that doesn't?
The new one is very new, I couldn't tell you exactly how old the other one is, but well over a year or even 18 months.

Does 3's system treat them differently depending on age?
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Old 20-05-2015, 21:15
jabbamk1
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The new one is very new, I couldn't tell you exactly how old the other one is, but well over a year or even 18 months.

Does 3's system treat them differently depending on age?
Yes,

The newer SIM cards block tethering automatically.

The older SIM cards are a bit hit and miss but usually you can get away with tethering. Three are fully aware of this and at this point they have plans to crackdown on older SIM cards but it's not a priority right this second. It will happen though.

This will probably happen when Three update their pay as you go tariffs.
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