I think there is a slight difference between one kiss as part of a game of truth or dare and the situation in the bedroom.
The two things would be more comparable if Aaron had continued pressuring Joel into kissing him or something.

I mean since Joel had made it obvious that he was against kissing in the game of truth or dare then the incident in the bedroom should never have happened. It almost felt like Aaron's way of getting back at him.

Well then what does that say about Eileen in her 50's and finding it all rather funny

GET HER OUT!!!!!!!!!!

But Nick was also one of the main ones egging Aaron on in the bedroom.

When did Eileen find it funny? She was silent throughout the whole thing.

Not to mention finding it funny and actually participating in the act are two completely separate things.

Wasn't it Danny who did the dare?

I've seen Joel and Nick have what I would call honest conversations. They're both well spoken teenagers and seem to relate but I wouldn't term it best friends. Joel nominated Nick. Some have complained that Nick and Jade of late have been apart from the others. They relate and chat but I'm not seeing best friends. Not yet anyway.

I think they like each other but at this moment seems that Nick and Jade might be seen as best friends not Nick and Joel. Joel had more sweeping conversations with Aaron. Shame Aaron couldn't just be friends with Joel. Had to push it over and over.

That does show a lack of perception from Nick. But if others are to blame for Aaron's actions then it further shows that Aaron is incredibly impressionable and can't control himself in the situation.
I'm glad I no longer have to wonder that if this is what Aaron's doing now then what on earth is it going to be tomorrow or next week.

Agreed

I can't be sure who it was who did the dare. Perhaps ultros has a point where Nick is concerned on that score.

However, i completely agee with you on the point of Aaron pushing the boundaries of friendship where Joel was concerned. It sickened and saddened me really that he had to sexualise the whole thing.

i don't think ultros is arguing that Nick is to blame for Aaron's behaviour.

Instead ultros is arguing that Joel did not make "his uncomfortableness in Aaron's behavior as apparent as people are now saying", because one of Joel's best friends in the house, Nick, evidently didn't realise Joel was so uncomfortable.

Earlier ultros used Nick daring Joel to kiss Aaron as the example. You replied "there is a slight difference between one kiss as part of a game of truth or dare and the situation in the bedroom". So ultros pointed to Nick egging Aaron on in the bedroom.

You think "that does show a lack of perception from Nick", but couldn't it instead (or also) be that Joel hadn't made "his uncomfortableness in Aaron's behavior as apparent as people are now saying"?

BIB But my point is if Aaron (and the others) were made aware of how Joel expressed he felt in the DR then I'm pretty sure Aaron & the others wouldn't have continued that behavior if they knew how distressed it was making Joel.
Therefore you wouldn't of had to worry about tomorrow or next week.. and a housemate wouldn't have had to be harshly kicked out.

Who else is Joel ever going to talk to after this event other than BB? Who can he trust in amongst a house of game players, all of whom loved the shenanigans of the night before?

Well I did admit that BB hasn't done their job in this and warned Aaron off.

Joel has stated that he is straight numerous times and he did express his discomfort in the bedroom.
Perhaps it demonstrates the naivety of the group, as they may have put too much trust in Aaron who should probably be the one most experienced when it comes to suitable behaviour from a gay man to a straight man.


But the problem for me is that Aaron doesn't even seem to realize that flashing his bits and constantly climbing naked in the bed of a straight 19 year old would be uncomfortable.

But Aaron had never gone this far. It was only tonight that Aaron totally violated Joel's personal space. Up until tonight the sexual innuendo and banter which Joel always rebuffed, didn't go on and on. When Joel said he couldn't kiss Aaron, Aaron left the game. He pushed too far IMO but he did finally accept Joel saying no. That didn't happen late in the night, Aaron didn't back off nor stop. Joel did tell him to stop and said no. Short of punching him, which is also against the rules, what else need he do to be clear?

BB asked him how he felt, he felt that his personal space was violated, and it was.

Then the whole issue here is Nick's gameplan as opposed to Joel's.

It was Nick who dared him.


See myself, Aaron & clearly the rest of the house just saw it as a friend having fun winding up another friend... Joshing... Pulling his tail.
It's a bit of a stretch to suggest Aaron had sinister motives. Yet I guess you have to see it this way to justify Joel's OTT reaction in the diary room afterwards to distance himself from the hijinks when he realized it was serious

Ultros, thanks for clarifying that it was Nick that did the dare. Appreciated.

But cant agree with your other points. Sorry

Spot on Veri

I think maybe Cat that somewhere down the line it will become apparent that perhaps young Joel is the biggest gameplayer of them all

And neither did any of the others!!!

So like I keep saying... they ALL should have been made aware, bish bash bosh, move on, job done, misunderstanding over, nobody chucked out.

Ok no problem

(sorry I take so long to reply, I'm also doing something else)

I wouldn't disagree ultros.

But manipulation or not, Aaron was putty in BB's hands..... sadly.

Whether Joel was making his feelings obvious or not to everyone else, how many times did he say 'NO'? And even after Joel kept saying no, and moving away from Aaron repeatedly with Aaron going after him, did Aaron not try to rub up (whilst being completely naked) against Joel? That is termed as sexual harrassment. There are no excuses for it. If someone is repeatedly saying no, whether it is in a mild mannered way or aggressively, you stop.

For all those people making excuses for Aaron saying Joel should have been more firm. No, the responsibility lies with Aaron to stop. Joel should not have even needed to say no more than once. And Joel is not the type to speak aggressively. I am not a fan of his one bit and I think he can be a right little b*tch, so not biased, but even when he had that little argument with Jade, his voice was pretty low.

If it was so clear then why were his friends still egging Aaron on?
Maybe because Joel was also laughing and throwing pillows at Aaron?
And that Joel's 'oh put your lodger away Aaron' protestations could easily be misconstrued as part of the harmless banter they all thought they were a part of?

Agreed

I think Joel could have made it clearer, but perhaps he didn't feel comfortable with taking a stronger line and hoped it would end so he wouldn't have to.