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Who expected Joel's reaction?


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Old 29-05-2015, 03:28
Cat-
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I think Joel could have made it clearer, but perhaps he didn't feel comfortable with taking a stronger line and hoped it would end so he wouldn't have to.
The second half of your sentence is what I feel was the most likely scenario.
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Old 29-05-2015, 03:42
ultros
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I think Joel could have made it clearer, but perhaps he didn't feel comfortable with taking a stronger line and hoped it would end so he wouldn't have to.
I just found his reaction in the DR bizarre.
At this point Joel would have known that (his supposed friend) Aaron had gotten the message loud and clear not to behave like that anymore towards him yet he acted like he was also on trial, desperately trying to distance himself from the bedroom hijinks. Almost like he threw Aaron to the wolves to avoid a stain on his character.
You would think as they were pals he would say it was just a bit of fun that perhaps got out of hand but no... he went straight for the jugular and signed his death warrant
Nothing to do with me Your Honor, send him to the gallows !!!
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Old 29-05-2015, 03:45
Veri
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Whether Joel was making his feelings obvious or not to everyone else, how many times did he say 'NO'? And even after Joel kept saying no, and moving away from Aaron repeatedly with Aaron going after him, did Aaron not try to rub up (whilst being completely naked) against Joel? That is termed as sexual harrassment. There are no excuses for it. If someone is repeatedly saying no, whether it is in a mild mannered way or aggressively, you stop.
But there was more to it than that. Joel wasn't just saying "no"; it wasn't always Aaron going after him. At one point at least Joel chased Aaron; there was pillow fighting; and so on. I'm not saying any of that makes Aaron's behaviour ok, but there was room for misunderstanding, and it wasn't only Aaron who misunderstood.

Remember that we're seeing it already knowing it got Aaron thrown out. That can cause us to notice different things, or give them different significance, then if we watched without knowing how it would end.

For all those people making excuses for Aaron saying Joel should have been more firm. No, the responsibility lies with Aaron to stop. Joel should not have even needed to say no more than once. And Joel is not the type to speak aggressively. I am not a fan of his one bit and I think he can be a right little b*tch, so not biased, but even when he had that little argument with Jade, his voice was pretty low.
Do you think only shouting counts? Joel's manner of speaking was quite vehement with Jade nonetheless, or remember how he was in the debates.

Anyway, of course Aaron is responsible for his behaviour. I don't think there are many (if any) who think otherwise.
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Old 29-05-2015, 03:52
Veri
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Well I did admit that BB hasn't done their job in this and warned Aaron off.

Joel has stated that he is straight numerous times and he did express his discomfort in the bedroom.
Perhaps it demonstrates the naivety of the group, as they may have put too much trust in Aaron who should probably be the one most experienced when it comes to suitable behaviour from a gay man to a straight man.
I think that at first it was a lot easier to see it as just Aaron messing around in fun and Nick not much minding and even joining in. For instance, after the first thing we see Aaron do, Joel chases him back to his bed and does an air kick at his retreating rear.

But Aaron goes on and on, and by the time Aaron says "look at you scratching your nipple" and Nick replies, with some anger or irritation and admonishing pointing, "I wasn't scratching my nipple; I was scratching my chest", the atmosphere is much more uncomfortable, though some of the other HMs are still laughing. Yet even then Joel throws a pillow at him, which could seem to be participating in play; and he laughed at some things after that.

But it was late at night; the HMs who were most wake and active were laughing; they may just not have picked up on the change soon enough. And while I think BB should have stepped in earlier, I think BB came in about as quickly as they usually do, once things reach a point where it's clearly called for.

But the problem for me is that Aaron doesn't even seem to realize that flashing his bits and constantly climbing naked in the bed of a straight 19 year old would be uncomfortable.
Joel wasn't in the bed when Aaron climbed in, however.
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Old 29-05-2015, 03:52
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But there was more to it than that. Joel wasn't just saying "no"; it wasn't always Aaron going after him. At one point at least Joel chased Aaron; there was pillow fighting; and so on. I'm not saying any of that makes Aaron's behaviour ok, but there was room for misunderstanding, and it wasn't only Aaron who misunderstood.

Remember that we're seeing it already knowing it got Aaron thrown out. That can cause us to notice different things, or give them different significance, then if we watched without knowing how it would end.



Do you think only shouting counts? Joel's manner of speaking was quite vehement with Jade nonetheless, or remember how he was in the debates.

Anyway, of course Aaron is responsible for his behaviour. I don't think there are many (if any) who think otherwise.
Do you seriously expect anyone to give this response any credibility.?
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Old 29-05-2015, 03:53
dd68
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His action was appropriate, I am surprised no other HMs felt uncomfortable
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Old 29-05-2015, 03:57
Veri
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Do you seriously expect anyone to give this response any credibility.?
What's supposed to be the problem with it? Or are you just making a dig at me personally?
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Old 29-05-2015, 04:00
Cat-
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What's supposed to be the problem with it? Or are you just making a dig at me personally?
It just sounds so persuasively biased
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Old 29-05-2015, 04:07
Veri
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It just sounds so persuasively biased
What do you think is biased about it?

It's too late for me to post more now (I should have gone to sleep hours ago), but I'd still like to know what you think the problem with it is, and I may have time to reply tomorrow.
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Old 29-05-2015, 04:10
SULLA
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Joel didn't know how to deal with it and I felt sorry for him.

I now feel sorry for Aaron but no more than all those who will be kicked out tonight.
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Old 29-05-2015, 21:00
BROXI BEAR
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I'm sure if Joel had said 'I'm serious Aaron, just **** off' instead of laughing the incident would have stopped.
Totally agree!
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Old 29-05-2015, 21:21
5hane
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People love to play the part of the victim, be it on BB or in real life.
Now it's Joels turn to play the part.
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Old 29-05-2015, 21:26
meglosmurmurs
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People love to play the part of the victim, be it on BB or in real life.
Now it's Joels turn to play the part.
Though as the saying goes - if you don't want someone to play the victim, then don't treat them like shite in the first place.
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Old 29-05-2015, 21:29
haphash
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I can't stand Joel but he was in no way to blame for what happened.
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Old 29-05-2015, 21:44
WanderinWonder
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But as you say Aaron was merely acting childishly.. not maliciously.
Just like when Joel's BFF Nick set the ball rolling daring Joel to kiss Aaron earlier on in the night.. he thought it was a bit of fun.
As far as they were all aware it was just a bit of childish fun that they were ALL complicit in, not just Aaron.
Just seems a bit harsh on Aaron to me.
It does indeed.

Joel looked like he was really enjoying it too, he was just embarrassed about being shown enjoying himself on national TV.
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