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Three 4G Discussion Thread (Part 2) |
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#4001 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 22
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I also got the letter and have moved to the £16 per month deal (Monthly Rolling Contract) including:
- 8GB of data (including tethering) - Unlimited calls - Unlimited texts Suits my needs fine. |
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#4002 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Central Scotland, UK
Posts: 871
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Two interesting articles have appeared on FT.com, I assume they will be in the paper copy tomorrow. The first is a news article reporting what the OFCOM chief executive Sharon White has reported and the 2nd is the actual article written by Sharon White. UK regulator calls for blocking of O2 and Three Ofcom chief Sharon White fears much higher bills for mobile phone users Source: https://next.ft.com/content/10bd9d7a...f-8231cd71622e Quote:
The British telecoms regulator has urged Brussels to block the proposed merger of telecoms operators O2 and Three, which it fears will send mobile phone bills for users in the UK sharply higher.
Writing in the FT ahead of Europe’s first formal statement on the deal, Ofcom chief executive Sharon White said the merger of two of Britain’s four operators could also hit rival high-street retailers and upset existing network arrangements. The arguments opposing the deal mark the strongest position taken on the £10.5bn merger to date by Ms White, the former Treasury enforcer who became head of Ofcom last year. Ofcom’s intervention will raise further doubts about the attempt by Hong Kong’s CK Hutchison to acquire O2 from Telefónica to merge with Three, the smallest mobile operator in the UK. The £10.5bn acquisition of O2 to create the UK’s largest mobile operator will this week come under scrutiny by the European Commission, which is due to send out a lengthy statement of objections listing why the merger will damage competition in the British mobile market. Ofcom has put its arguments to the commission, according to Ms White, and outlined several particular concerns. She says the creation of another, fourth network to replace O2 "might be one answer" for some of her concerns, but would take "time and considerable investment". “This is not a broken market,” said Ms White. “Last year, UK mobile firms generated £15bn of revenue. Competition, not consolidation, has driven investment.” While the decision to approve the merger lies with Europe’s steely antitrust chief Margrethe Vestager, Ofcom is working with the commission and has considerable influence with its decision makers. The proposed merger is seen as a test case for similar deals across Europe, including in Italy where CK Hutchison is trying to combine its mobile business with the operator owned by VimpelCom. Ms Vestager has raised concerns about the effects of reducing the number of operators from four to three. Ms White said the “deal could mean higher prices for consumers and businesses” after removing one of the competitors in the market. The merged group would have four in 10 mobile connections in the UK. Ofcom has carried out research analysing mobile prices over recent years in 25 countries that found that average prices were up to a fifth lower in markets with four operators compared with those with only three established networks. Ms White is worried the impact of the merger “may be felt on the high street” given it could tip the balance of power “between mobile networks and the independent retailers who help constrain the price of mobile handsets and bills”. Her worries are expected to be reflected in a forthcoming statement of objections that will be sent to the companies involved in the deal, which will then need to find “remedies” to resolve the concerns. Hutchison is expected to argue that the best solution to bolster competition would be by agreeing a fixed slice of its network that could be used by rivals groups such as Sky, TalkTalk and Virgin Media to create a more fully fledged mobile business. The FT revealed last week that French billionaire Xavier Niel would also be interested in entering the UK market. However, Ms White is sceptical about the benefits of this as a solution given “many of our concerns relate to competition between operators who own the networks on which mobile phones rely”. Hutchison is seen by analysts as unlikely to agree with her views given the benefit of the merger would be negated should it be forced to sell part of its business to create a new network operator. |
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#4003 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Central Scotland, UK
Posts: 871
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... and the article written by Sharon White: A UK mobile merger that threatens healthy competition A combined Three/O2 would shift balance of power between networks and retailers, writes Sharon White Source: https://next.ft.com/content/be8d03c8...f-8231cd71622e Quote:
What would Herbert Hoover, the pioneering US president who excelled at engineering and economics, make of today’s digital society? He would surely be impressed by the range of affordable devices we use each day, from smartphones to tablets. But I do not think he would be surprised by the economic forces that brought all this about.
Competition is the lifeblood of today’s telecoms market, spurring innovation, better coverage and fair prices. As President Hoover observed: “Competition is not only the basis of protection to the consumer, but is the incentive to progress.” To see that happening today, take the UK mobile phones sector, where four networks compete for customers. Consumers have enjoyed innovative services and pricing in recent years, from unlimited internet data to free overseas calls. UK prices are among the lowest in Europe, with the cost of a typical package falling by two-thirds since 2003. Ofcom, the UK communications regulator, aims to maintain that progress through competition. So we are concerned that the smallest mobile network, Three proposes to become the biggest by acquiring its rival, O2. The combined group would control more than four in 10 mobile connections. This follows a pattern of mobile mergers in Austria, Ireland and Germany. Like those countries, the UK would be left with just three networks. Some argue that operators must consolidate in order to boost revenues, increase efficiency and widen their scale to invest. But this is not a broken market. Last year, UK mobile companies generated £15bn of revenue. They have been investing billions to roll out 4G technology, while maintaining cash flow margins above 12 per cent. Competition, not consolidation, has driven investment. We have put those arguments to the European Commission, which is reviewing Three and O2’s proposals, and outlined particular concerns. First, the deal could mean higher prices for consumers and businesses. To date, Three’s owner Hutchison has often acted as a “disruptive” operator, successfully challenging established players through innovation and low prices. We are analysing mobile prices over recent years in 25 countries. Our findings show that average prices are around 10-20 per cent lower in markets with four operators and a disruptive player than in those with only three established networks. Austria’s regulator says that, since the deal there, overall mobile prices have climbed 15 per cent and by 30 per cent for customers who only make calls and send texts. Second, the UK’s networks would face disruption. Recently, the four operators have combined their cables and masts into two networks — one used by Three and EE, the other by O2 and Vodafone. This works well: the four companies are still effective retail competitors, who compete independently on coverage and quality. Any merger would threaten that arrangement. A third concern lies on the high street. Most phone contracts are still sold in shops, with independents taking a big share. A combined Three/O2 would shift the balance of power between mobile networks and the independent retailers who help constrain the price of mobile handsets and bills. Many of our concerns relate to competition between operators who own the networks on which mobile phones rely. Only these four companies can make your mobile signal faster, more reliable and widely available. Establishing a new mobile network might be one answer, but this would take time, and considerable investment. While the merger is reviewed, Ofcom will keep working to promote healthy rivalry between operators. We want UK consumers and businesses to enjoy fair mobile prices and cutting-edge products for years to come. For that, we need strong competition: the basis of protection and the incentive to progress. The writer is the chief executive of Ofcom |
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#4004 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a land filled with trolls
Posts: 12,014
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The negative publicity for Three right now seems like even worse timing. I'd have thought Three would be trying to portray itself as squeaky clean right now. Not annoying over a million of its subscribers!
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#4005 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,987
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Quote:
The negative publicity for Three right now seems like even worse timing. I'd have thought Three would be trying to portray itself as squeaky clean right now. Not annoying over a million of its subscribers!
I suspect other than to CKH/Three and their "yes men" that answer must be no. |
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#4006 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Leicester
Posts: 201
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Quote:
This isn't a new decision like people are making it out to be, this has been going on for 2 years and we're really raking over old coals because of a very vocal minority.
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#4007 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 91
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Selling off spectrum from a combined Three/O2 will not help or benefit anybody. The combined entity still doesn't have enough spectrum to compete as it is. It will not help competition or keep prices down. The only way is to just outright block the merger. Three also doesn't need any help to compete as it already has MBNL.
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#4008 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Midlands
Posts: 2,860
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Quote:
... and the article written by Sharon White:
A UK mobile merger that threatens healthy competition A combined Three/O2 would shift balance of power between networks and retailers, writes Sharon White Source: https://next.ft.com/content/be8d03c8...f-8231cd71622e |
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#4009 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Wales
Posts: 325
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So you think the majority of people are fine with the price of their plan being doubled and losing unlimited tethering?
I have no sympathy for those people who are moaning about it, either change plan or leave! It really is that simple, Three don't owe anyone anything. most of the people getting upset about unlimited tethering being removed are probably the ones that used it as a home connection. |
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#4010 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Retford
Posts: 20,453
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Don't see why this is being said, nobody is forcing them to stay. The One Plan is going and people are going to have to accept that. Unlimited tethering for £15 was too good a deal which is why it's ended up getting retired, along with the large amount of abuse from those using it as a home internet connection.
I have no sympathy for those people who are moaning about it, either change plan or leave! It really is that simple, Three don't owe anyone anything. Can you see why it gets people's backs up? What's to stop other mobile phone operators and other tech/media companies following Three's lead and doing the same thing to their customers? Moving to Vodafone/EE/O2 and then they move you onto a contract in due time which offers less for double the cash? Three has set a precedent and the danger is without Ofcom intervention, this'll be a profitable tactic repeated by other companies at the cost of higher prices and less allowances for consumers. |
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#4011 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Wales
Posts: 325
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"Pay us £30 a month and know your place".
Can you see why it gets people's backs up? What's to stop other mobile phone operators and other tech/media companies following Three's lead and doing the same thing to their customers? Moving to Vodafone/EE/O2 and then they move you onto a contract in due time which offers less for double the cash? Three has set a precedent and the danger is without Ofcom intervention, this'll be a profitable tactic repeated by other companies at the cost of higher prices and less allowances for consumers. |
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#4012 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a land filled with trolls
Posts: 12,014
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While some commenters may be blowing things out of proportion, I still see why people are angry. People are being asked to shell out £180 a year more for what they see as being a lesser offer.
If tethering had simply been aced, or cut, then I doubt there would have been the same level of anger. Ironically those in the £12.90 plan asked to pay over £10 more now get 12GB of tethering when they had 0GB before! |
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#4013 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the future....
Posts: 11,257
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Quote:
If Three were going to end unlimited data then they wouldn't be selling it now, assuming they followed the pattern of stopping selling something for a couple of years before moving people off.
I think it's a combination of the plan being so cheap from their era of trying to buy up customers and also the need to cut off unlimited tethering users who used a huge amount of capacity. They don't want the O2 / Three thing to begin badly as well, so I think part of it is levelling the playing field as anything they do post sale will be blamed on that. This isn't a new decision like people are making it out to be, this has been going on for 2 years and we're really raking over old coals because of a very vocal minority. We'll see what Three's numbers are like when they report the next financial statement in February.
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#4014 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Leicester
Posts: 201
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Quote:
Don't see why this is being said, nobody is forcing them to stay. The One Plan is going and people are going to have to accept that. Unlimited tethering for £15 was too good a deal which is why it's ended up getting retired, along with the large amount of abuse from those using it as a home internet connection.
I have no sympathy for those people who are moaning about it, either change plan or leave! It really is that simple, Three don't owe anyone anything. most of the people getting upset about unlimited tethering being removed are probably the ones that used it as a home connection. |
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#4015 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 720
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The fact is that Three are asking people to pay double to get an arguably worse package (I say arguably because in a couple of respects it is better) . That is not ok and people are well within their rights to not be happy about it. Hell if one of the energy companies did this there would be calls for a government enquiry into it!
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#4016 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a land filled with trolls
Posts: 12,014
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Energy companies that do fixed rate deals have expiry dates. The One Plan was never sold with an expiry date.
Perhaps from now on consumers should be told a date when they can expect a revision of the terms and price of a mobile tariff? |
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#4017 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 471
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Quote:
Energy companies that do fixed rate deals have expiry dates. The One Plan was never sold with an expiry date.
Perhaps from now on consumers should be told a date when they can expect a revision of the terms and price of a mobile tariff? That's life. Prices go up. I don't believe that any company should be expected to provide something forever at the same price. I want mobile companies to invest. Specifically Three to catch up with coverage and use the latest technology. That investment demands price rises. That said, it's disappointing to see them not automatically choose an equivalent cost tariff (with less mins/data etc.) instead of hiking prices steeply under the excuse of maintaining allowances. |
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#4018 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the future....
Posts: 11,257
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Quote:
Two interesting articles have appeared on FT.com, I assume they will be in the paper copy tomorrow. The first is a news article reporting what the OFCOM chief executive Sharon White has reported and the 2nd is the actual article written by Sharon White.
UK regulator calls for blocking of O2 and Three Ofcom chief Sharon White fears much higher bills for mobile phone users Source: https://next.ft.com/content/10bd9d7a...f-8231cd71622e Just the other week Thine Wonk posted that the EU was going to approve the deal and we would hear about it imminently ![]() Quote:
The approval for the purchase of O2 is rumoured to be approved next week, subject to spectrum sale and other conditions. It'll be really interesting if they have to give up half of the 800, or some other spectrum.
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#4019 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,876
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At this point I don't think it's got a chance of going through.
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#4020 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 14,546
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Quote:
So you think the majority of people are fine with the price of their plan being doubled and losing unlimited tethering?
Unlimited tethering isn't on sale anymore and hasn't been for nearly 2 years. The customers which are on those older plans are being given several options for the plans which they sell now, there's a range of options, not just one which is double. There's one which is £5 more which also includes unlimited data, texts and 12GB of tethering and there's the option of 8GB plans for cheaper than they were paying if they don't want the unlimited. |
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#4021 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a land filled with trolls
Posts: 12,014
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Quote:
Come on Jon, you're better than that! You know that is called a contract. It was provided, in writing, when you joined. They often last 12 months and then roll over monthly unless either party decides not to. If it's now finished there is no need to give you more notice than your contract states.
That's life. Prices go up. I don't believe that any company should be expected to provide something forever at the same price. I want mobile companies to invest. Specifically Three to catch up with coverage and use the latest technology. That investment demands price rises. That said, it's disappointing to see them not automatically choose an equivalent cost tariff (with less mins/data etc.) instead of hiking prices steeply under the excuse of maintaining allowances. I'm not saying Three has to let you stay on a tariff they offered too cheap, because of their own misjudgement. However, it hasn't been done before. Hence why they're clearing people off every plan they offered before 2014, not just the One Plan. My point is that now you are at 'risk' once the contract ends. Yes, call charges can increase, they might adjust the allowances, they are allowed RPI rental increases (all with sufficient notice) so I am NOT saying prices can't go up. This isn't a price adjustment or price rise though (as Three so like saying to pretend £30 from £15 isn't a price hike) - it's changing you to a totally different tariff. And those who are moved to the £30/30 day plan can be excused for wondering if Three will change them again when they revise their plans. Don't assume that the rental will go up 1 or 2% a year, but whatever Three decides. Three is after all banking on some people not doing anything. Apathy works brilliantly in the energy/insurance sectors, so why not mobile now? Then, those who do phone up - some will get lucky and others won't. How consistent and fair is that? So my reason for saying we should have an expiry date for a tariff isn't that crazy. At the end, we will know we have to choose a new plan or leave. |
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#4022 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a land filled with trolls
Posts: 12,014
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1 1/2 years ago when this started happening and letters stated going out after the plan stopped being sold 2 years ago we had these discussions, this is not new!
Unlimited tethering isn't on sale anymore and hasn't been for nearly 2 years. The customers which are on those older plans are being given several options for the plans which they sell now, there's a range of options, not just one which is double. There's one which is £5 more which also includes unlimited data, texts and 12GB of tethering and there's the option of 8GB plans for cheaper than they were paying if they don't want the unlimited. |
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#4023 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 731
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At this point I don't think it's got a chance of going through.
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#4024 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: This forum
Posts: 3,389
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I wonder if AT&T will start sniffing around then, wasnt there talk of sucking up European networks?
Perhaps Liberty Global, to merge with Virgin Media?? |
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#4025 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 622
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I wonder what this fuss is all about.
People expect an increase in their wages but don't want the prices to rise. Would you work for Three if they didn't give you raise? Their excuse being "We haven't raised the tariff for the customers" |
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