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Three 4G Discussion Thread (Part 2)
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jonmorris
25-05-2016
Originally Posted by jbmcg:
“Got a text from Three today saying my LG G4 has a software update to enable Super Voice - thing is it's not a native Three-firmware G4, so I can't find the update.

Did anyone else get this? Has anyone seen an update?

Fingers crossed it's the MM update too.”

This is what got me talking to Three earlier, as I was included in a Tweet about a message sent to a G3 owner and I became interested because I've got a G3 and it only works with inTouch.

The owner was told it was a message sent in error, so make of that what you will.
radii
26-05-2016
Originally Posted by jbmcg:
“
Fingers crossed it's the MM update too.”

Can anyone verify if the 3UK LG4 has had a MM release?
If so the kdz file would b appreciated.
blueacid
29-05-2016
I'm noticing that with my Z3 Compact and Three InTouch, in and around Manchester the phone does switch to 4G800 now and again. Although, the circumstances requiring this (low 3G 2100 signal) typically mean that when it switches to 4G the strength of that signal is also similarly poor.

It's not quite fixed the problem of poor signal in The Oxford or Ford Madox Brown pubs; the signal's still atrocious in there. Admittedly, in the Ford Madox Brown, signal is hopeless on any network...
jonmorris
29-05-2016
That's what I find. If 3G goes completely, 4G800 will likely be very poor too.

The 800 network seems to be too widely spread out. It may make for a nice lot of dark red on maps, but it's not really usable. Usable being defined as not enough to successfully make a call, or data so slow that it makes 2G look fast. Ping times in the thousands is NOT good, and for voice it's anything but 'super'.
blueacid
29-05-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“That's what I find. If 3G goes completely, 4G800 will likely be very poor too.

The 800 network seems to be too widely spread out. It may make for a nice lot of dark red on maps, but it's not really usable. Usable being defined as not enough to successfully make a call, or data so slow that it makes 2G look fast. Ping times in the thousands is NOT good, and for voice it's anything but 'super'.”

Well, where I have found it, it has worked quite well. I did a speed test the other day (with zero bars of signal showing) and got 12 down, 7 up, with a ping of around 100. Sure, good 3G can beat that, but it was coverage where previously there had been none.

I'm still weighing up a move to another network, but with me spending a lot of my time in areas with solid Three 3G/4G1800, I'm finding it hard to justify the extra expense. I suppose I'm squarely in their target market then!
Thine Wonk
29-05-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“That's what I find. If 3G goes completely, 4G800 will likely be very poor too.

The 800 network seems to be too widely spread out. It may make for a nice lot of dark red on maps, but it's not really usable. Usable being defined as not enough to successfully make a call, or data so slow that it makes 2G look fast. Ping times in the thousands is NOT good, and for voice it's anything but 'super'.”

I don't know why you're still on Three, every post these days seems to indicate they aren't satisfying you. Feel at home doesn't fit your needs, you don't like the 800Mhz, you don't like the price rise, you don't like this that or the other!

I think you'd be happier elsewhere, why do you do it to yourself?
jonmorris
29-05-2016
I have considered it, but it wouldn't help my network testing much. I should have an O2 SIM soon too.

I have every right to express my disappointment at the reduction in service, such as seeing huge reductions in speed on 3G and 4G.

I wrote such positive things about 800 but it has failed everywhere I've tried it so far, including places I've deliberately turned off 3G to force it.

If and when I get a positive experience, you know I'll say so.
jonmorris
29-05-2016
Also, what I was going to say is that on the My3 app I was offered a deal to upgrade (as well as buy new personal hotspot boosts) and it is offering me an upgrade to unlimited minutes and 30GB hotspot for £5 a month.

In other words, my discount that was applied can be carried over. No need to speak to anyone, which is an improvement.

Previously I was not entitled to do an online upgrade. The price guide suggests this is a new feature for all users, but with a £5 one off admin fee.

Also, it still talks about the £5 direct debit discount. EE from next week will be cutting their £3.50 a month fee to just 40 odd pence. Wonder if Three will drop this too, and if doing so would mean a reduction in the plan (haha!) cost?
Denco1
29-05-2016
Originally Posted by blueacid:
“
It's not quite fixed the problem of poor signal in The Oxford or Ford Madox Brown pubs; the signal's still atrocious in there. Admittedly, in the Ford Madox Brown, signal is hopeless on any network...”

You might be surprised to know, but there's two 800MHz transmitters less than 0.3 miles from the Ford Madox Brown and The Oxford pubs.
One is on the Hathersage Road NHS carpark, with the other being a street pole on Pencroft Way.

So your experience cements what I was saying months ago. 800MHz can travel miles and miles in clear line of sight conditions. But it can't work magic with dense city clutter. Three still need a dense rollout, like all the other networks have realised.
jonmorris
29-05-2016
Originally Posted by Denco1:
“Three still need a dense rollout, like all the other networks have realised.”

Now we know one reason could be the fact that despite the network sharing, Three is actually not using an awful lot of sites it could (should?) be.

Whoever is at fault, EE or Three (or a bit of both), the fact is Three's network is starting to struggle.

I am NOT saying Three won't now decide to invest in the network after the O2 purchase fell through, so it's not necessarily all doom and gloom, but it's not something that can be fixed overnight.
blueacid
29-05-2016
Originally Posted by Denco1:
“You might be surprised to know, but there's two 800MHz transmitters less than 0.3 miles from the Ford Madox Brown and The Oxford pubs.
One is on the Hathersage Road NHS carpark, with the other being a street pole on Pencroft Way.

So your experience cements what I was saying months ago. 800MHz can travel miles and miles in clear line of sight conditions. But it can't work magic with dense city clutter. Three still need a dense rollout, like all the other networks have realised.”

That is quite interesting to know, am I right in guessing that you've got access to perhaps a little more information than some others? If you are, then I suggest your network engineers have a drive down the A5103 Princess Parkway while streaming: somewhere the 4G is just slightly too weak and it drops to 3G. No big deal as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't buffer or stutter so the 3G network is still keeping up okay!

In the defence of Three, the FMB is a challenge for every network; certainly if you sit near the back you've got zero coverage from any provider or technology, so they're certainly not the odd one out in that particular location.

Jonmorris' comments about density are interesting though, I had also seen the comments that for whatever reason, Three were not using as many masts as EE are. With 3G cell breathing, this'll exacerbate any coverage issues - more users between fewer masts, meaning that the Three 3G footprint might shrink significantly compared to the EE 3G footprint. To what extent this is actually occurring I don't know; maybe it'll be even more pronounced with EE's 4G network presumably shouldering a lot of their data burden, leaving the 3G network unstressed and thus it'll be fully.. exhaling? What's the term for a network whose cells aren't breathing in?
Denco1
31-05-2016
I'm no bookey_uk
I just happened to have done far too much mast spotting in Manchester aha.

I've experienced the same thing on princess parkway while I was on my way to the airport. EE 4G just dropped out, so not surprising Three 4G dropped out as well.
blueacid
06-06-2016
Well, in the past couple of days I've done a few hundred miles through the Cheshire and Yorkshire countryside and found that the Three 4G800 is working quite well. Streaming music while travelling in the car, I noticed a few times a weak 3G signal being replaced by a weak-ish 4G signal - a quick look at the notifications showed Three intouch stating "4G calling ready".

I did also make a call from the TinT app while on 4G800 and it stuttered a little in the first couple of seconds but thereafter was very good. It didn't hand over to 3G during the call, not sure whether this was because the 3G never had a good enough signal to warrant the changeover or if the phone hung onto the 4G connection due to the call. Mostly my use is data, though, so having it available in more places was good!

Saying that though, Three (like the other networks) had awful coverage around the Yorkshire 3 Peaks when I walked them the other day. I turned on Rootmetrics just on the way up Pen-Y-Ghent, when one of the people I was walking with had to use my phone to quickly make a call, having discovered that the one bar of o2 2G he had wasn't good enough for a call. Looking back, it looks like we were lucky to have a working three signal at that time. Wonder whether as the 4G800 rollout of Three and EE continues remote areas like this will get mobile coverage after all!
jonmorris
06-06-2016
I hope so. It shouldn't be long until EE switches on 800 too, so it's going to be interesting to see what difference it makes, as well as any further extensions of 800 from Three.

Given Vodafone and O2 can't just ramp up the power of 800 as neither limit it to only VoLTE users, EE and Three have arguably the most to gain. Obviously EE has a target of 95% geographic coverage by 2020 and most of that will be down to 800.

I don't know where Three plans to be by 2020? I assume it hoped it would have sorted out the takeover of O2 by then, gaining loads of extra coverage that way.
camer_000
06-06-2016
http://arstechnica.co.uk/business/20...auction-ofcom/

What do you think?

For me it goes 2 ways, they should have some protection as the smallest operator with the least spectrum, especially compared to EE/BT.

But they also had the same oppotunity to aquire the spectrum and it's their fault they didn't want to spend and now don't have enough.
jonmorris
06-06-2016
Three needs to make up its mind on what it wants to do.

It offers loads of data, but then struggles with limited spectrum and too few sites. And just as soon as it kills unlimited tethering, it starts to increase allowances from 8 to 12 to 30GB.

It's as if Three can't think of another way to sell itself to the consumer so keeps coming back to loads of data.

Given it seems people are now finding ways around the personal hotspot restrictions, thus being able to use as much data as they like with their home computers, smart TVs, set top boxes and the like - it could become rather desperate in the years ahead.

But can't Three just bid to buy more spectrum?

EE is now offering a 64GB data only plan for under £30. BT will likely offer similar on its own mobile broadband plans, so Three may be forced to keep offering more data - and for less money to stand any chance of being competitive.

Three doesn't want to be perceived as the small player sticking it to the man anymore, so why would it expect to get any special favours going forward? It's in the premier league now and it's tough up there. Leicester had Claudio Ranieri, while Three has a purple muppet!
Thine Wonk
06-06-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“Three needs to make up its mind on what it wants to do.

It offers loads of data, but then struggles with limited spectrum and too few sites. And just as soon as it kills unlimited tethering, it starts to increase allowances from 8 to 12 to 30GB.

It's as if Three can't think of another way to sell itself to the consumer so keeps coming back to loads of data.

Given it seems people are now finding ways around the personal hotspot restrictions, thus being able to use as much data as they like with their home computers, smart TVs, set top boxes and the like - it could become rather desperate in the years ahead.

But can't Three just bid to buy more spectrum?

EE is now offering a 64GB data only plan for under £30. BT will likely offer similar on its own mobile broadband plans, so Three may be forced to keep offering more data - and for less money to stand any chance of being competitive.

Three doesn't want to be perceived as the small player sticking it to the man anymore, so why would it expect to get any special favours going forward? It's in the premier league now and it's tough up there. Leicester had Claudio Ranieri, while Three has a purple muppet! ”

No the regulators need to make their minds up, either they know the operator is small and therefore needs protections (which it has had in the past) or they allow a merger to enable them to compete.

Spending billions aquiring a huge amount of spectrum is not viable for a user base of 9M, the economics just don't work out, so either we have a heavily regulated environment where artificial controls are in place (preventing merger) or we don't. Either we have restrictions in place on other large operators or we don't.

It's actually the regulators that need to make their minds up, if they are going to artificially interfere with the market or not, and if so that means they need to apply regulation both ways.
d123
06-06-2016
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“No the regulators need to make their minds up, either they know the operator is small and therefore needs protections (which it has had in the past) or they allow a merger to enable them to compete.

Spending billions aquiring a huge amount of spectrum is not viable for a user base of 9M, the economics just don't work out, so either we have a heavily regulated environment where artificial controls are in place (preventing merger) or we don't. Either we have restrictions in place on other large operators or we don't.

It's actually the regulators that need to make their minds up, if they are going to artificially interfere with the market or not, and if so that means they need to apply regulation both ways.”

Wow...

You should apply for a job working in the Three PR department.
David_Johns
06-06-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“
EE is now offering a 64GB data only plan for under £30”

Have you got a link for that?
CheshireBumpkin
06-06-2016
Originally Posted by David_Johns:
“Have you got a link for that?”

I don't know if it's publicly available - it was offered to me, and one other on here, as an existing customer offer...
d123
06-06-2016
Originally Posted by CheshireBumpkin:
“I don't know if it's publicly available - it was offered to me, and one other on here, as an existing customer offer...”

The price plan is £28 for 32GB.

http://shop.ee.co.uk/sim-only/pay-monthly-data
GavinAshford
06-06-2016
Three coverage map updates.

800Mhz - http://gdurl.com/TyEs
1800Mhz - http://gdurl.com/Pbze

Purple = 3rd April, Red = 6th June
Thine Wonk
06-06-2016
Thanks Gavin, I appreciate these updates, I find them very interesting.
Zebb
06-06-2016
Three do amazingly well considering.

"When Orange and T Mobile merged in 2010 to form EE, one of the conditions of the deal being approved was that Three, which had shared its network with T Mobile, would be able to access 3,000 of EE’s 3G phone masts.
Court papers suggest that in six years EE has enabled Three to use fewer than half the masts it originally promised, giving access to just 1,301 sites over that period."
Denco1
06-06-2016
Pull the other one. Three have 15000 sites plus those 1301, so ~16500 sites. That currently gives them 97% population coverage. Their 4G800 covers around 65% population, and their 4G1800 considerably less than that. So to blame EE for Three's 4G rollout is bonkers.
If Three were struggling to cover the last 5% with 4G then yes there might be reason to be sympathetic. But to cheap out on a rollout, hike prices, try to buy a competitor, then going whining to the courts and regulators, who's going to feel sorry for them?
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