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Three 4G Discussion Thread (Part 2)


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Old 13-09-2015, 01:58
Chinda
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VoLTE on one 4G frequency (800), on one phone (S5), with one small slice of spectrum (5mhz). 1+1+1 = 3. Half-Life 3 confirmed.

So how's it looking in terms of priority? Is it actually 4G 1800, 3G 2100, 4G 800??
Volte & 800mhz 4G in theory should be great on Three network. O2 own 2 x 10mhz sprectrum of 800mhz which is only frequency used for their 4G which covers roughly 22 million customers. Three have 2 x 5mhz of 800mhz & currently use 1800mhz frequency on 4G for all their customers which is roughly 8 million, almost 3 times less than O2. But even with that in their advantage i reckon Three's super-voice 4G & Volte wont reach many of their customers for a long time.
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Old 13-09-2015, 06:52
Skippy2005
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Volte & 800mhz 4G in theory should be great on Three network. O2 own 2 x 10mhz sprectrum of 800mhz which is only frequency used for their 4G which covers roughly 22 million customers. Three have 2 x 5mhz of 800mhz & currently use 1800mhz frequency on 4G for all their customers which is roughly 8 million, almost 3 times less than O2. But even with that in their advantage i reckon Three's super-voice 4G & Volte wont reach many of their customers for a long time.
If the merger doesn't go through three still have 20mhz unpaired 1400 to CA with 800 greatly boosting speed and capacity.
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Old 13-09-2015, 09:59
Patrikvk
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I really do wonder how Three managed to get this reliability thing they apparently have got.

It completely bewilders me why anyone would think Three is the best network for iPhones how does that make any sense when Three doesn't have WiFi Calling or Visual Voicemail. Both which are brilliant baked in additions to the phone which aren't gimmicks but actually help people.

Unless I'm talking complete rubbish but I find them to be really useful.
I don't see how Three can be best network for just iphones , why not for every other smart phone?
Personally I am glad that WiFi calling isn't native/baked in, because I sometimes don't want to be reachable by phone, so I turn on airplane mode and activate WiFi so that I can still use my phone to surf etc. I don't like using "Do Not Disturb" or "Quiet Hours" because it's not the same as to have the phone on Airplane mode on with Wifi activated.

I would like to have Visual voicemail, that's something I use on Skype when I can't reach someone.
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Old 13-09-2015, 10:51
d123
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Volte & 800mhz 4G in theory should be great on Three network. O2 own 2 x 10mhz sprectrum of 800mhz which is only frequency used for their 4G which covers roughly 22 million customers.
Not a valid comparison when you actually look at the smartphone base on o2 and then see how many of those smartphones are actually 4G capable. I'd be surprised if o2 even have 4 million customers using their 4G at present (they had 3 million 4G customers as of Jan 2015).

Personally I am glad that WiFi calling isn't native/baked in, because I sometimes don't want to be reachable by phone, so I turn on airplane mode and activate WiFi so that I can still use my phone to surf etc. I don't like using "Do Not Disturb" or "Quiet Hours" because it's not the same as to have the phone on Airplane mode on with Wifi activated..
You do realise that WifiCalling has a toggle to switch on and off? You don't have to have it active if you don't want to use it.
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Old 13-09-2015, 11:24
Denco1
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Hi its already been known since April from Three's official blog that their Volte service will only be run on band 20 800mhz. If you have a Samsung Galaxy S5 & had Three's super-voice/Volte OTA update & with super-voice/Volte turned on in the settings shouldn't the calls go through automatically on 800mhz frequency?
No, as if 1800MHz is set at a higher priority than 800MHz which it definitely will be, the phone will do CSFB and take the call over 2100MHz 3G instead of switching to 800MHz and taking the call.
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Old 13-09-2015, 11:34
mupet0000
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No, as if 1800MHz is set at a higher priority than 800MHz which it definitely will be, the phone will do CSFB and take the call over 2100MHz 3G instead of switching to 800MHz and taking the call.
What a mess, I don't see why they wouldn't want to enable VoLTE on 1800, everywhere with 1800 is going to get 800 too, so if 1800 drops off it can just hand over the call to 800. Why aren't they doing this?
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Old 13-09-2015, 11:51
Patrikvk
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You do realise that WifiCalling has a toggle to switch on and off? You don't have to have it active if you don't want to use it.
No, I genuinely thought that I couldn't turn it off. But if that's the case I'd love to see WiFi calling on 3!
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Old 13-09-2015, 12:04
Denco1
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What a mess, I don't see why they wouldn't want to enable VoLTE on 1800, everywhere with 1800 is going to get 800 too, so if 1800 drops off it can just hand over the call to 800. Why aren't they doing this?
It's puzzling me as well.
The two reasons I can think of are that in testing 1800-800MHz handoff may have been flaky, or they really want to limit the use of 4G for calls other than when it enables the user to make calls inside buildings or areas they previously wouldn't have been able to, so they would much prefer calls to go 1800 4G-2100 3G rather than 1800 4G-800 4G. That would both limit the use of the thin 5MHz slice, and also keep 1800MHz solely for data so it didn't become further congested with calls and data which it possibly would have been when you look at some of the 1800 4G speed tests.

Another issue might have been the IMEI whitelisting, so a call starts on 1800 but then the HSS mistakenly refuses the handset access to 800 ending up with a dropped call instead of what would now be a simple transition to 2100 3G.
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Old 13-09-2015, 12:10
Denco1
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I hope one day Three in Touch plays a big part in VoLTE. If the phone had the app installed then it could whitelist a 800MHz connection on any compatible phone, but still allowing for calls and data.
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Old 13-09-2015, 12:32
d123
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No, I genuinely thought that I couldn't turn it off. But if that's the case I'd love to see WiFi calling on 3!
Simple as this:

http://s19.postimg.org/lt6f24wnn/image.png
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Old 13-09-2015, 12:39
DevonBloke
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What a mess, I don't see why they wouldn't want to enable VoLTE on 1800, everywhere with 1800 is going to get 800 too, so if 1800 drops off it can just hand over the call to 800. Why aren't they doing this?
It is completely mad isn't it.
Whenever you are in an 1800 area you lose VoLTE!
Amazing.
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Old 13-09-2015, 12:45
DevonBloke
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VoLTE on one 4G frequency (800), on one phone (S5), with one small slice of spectrum (5mhz). 1+1+1 = 3. Half-Life 3 confirmed.

So how's it looking in terms of priority? Is it actually 4G 1800, 3G 2100, 4G 800??
1800 = highest priority, then 800, then 2100 the lowest.

On EE for example it will be. (starting with highest)
4G 2600
4G 1800
4G 800
3G 2100
2G 1800
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Old 13-09-2015, 12:49
matty1000kk
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4G 800mhz live in North Colchester. 3 PAYG sim in a Nexus 6. No credit or data bundles so couldn't do any testing.

Signal seems around 15-25 dbm up on 1800mhz 4G. Was kicked of after a couple of minutes back to 1800 4G.
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Old 13-09-2015, 13:09
Denco1
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1800 = highest priority, then 800, then 2100 the lowest.

On EE for example it will be. (starting with highest)
4G 2600
4G 1800
4G 800
3G 2100
2G 1800
I would hope it is that, but I did test a Three Galaxy S5 in a 2100MHz 3G and 800MHz 4G area without any 1800MHz, and the phone clung to 3G and not 4G. What with no 1800-800 VoLTE fallback existing I wonder if 800MHz is actually the lowest priority and not 2100MHz.

Which could also explain why those trying to connect to 800MHz with tablets last week couldn't, because they were in range of 2100MHz?

Edit: Also if it was 1800-800-2100 priority then a VoLTE 800MHz call would drop once a user entered a 1800 4G area, but this way the phone/network uses srvcc and ends up on 2100 keeping the call active.

If Three decide to make 800MHz the lowest priority then all we have gained from it is improved building pentration, and overall capacity and speeds on Three will remain just as crap as they are now. I hope I'm wrong about the priority but after thinking it through for a while it is starting to make sense.
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Old 13-09-2015, 13:22
lightspeed2398
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I know Manchester has got some events on at the moment (Food Festival, Cricket and Football), taking my personal phone in this morning the coverage on 3 was shocking, cell breathing perhaps? I normally just take my work phone on o2 in and that's reasonable in offices for just emails.

Still very little 4g along the M61/60 as well, bring on 800, the 3g may be usable then.
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Old 13-09-2015, 13:41
DevonBloke
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I would hope it is that, but I did test a Three Galaxy S5 in a 2100MHz 3G and 800MHz 4G area without any 1800MHz, and the phone clung to 3G and not 4G. What with no 1800-800 fallback existing I wonder if 800MHz is actually the lowest priority and not 2100MHz.

Which could also explain why those trying to connect to 800MHz with tablets last week couldn't, because they were in range of 2100MHz?
Ah yes, I hadn't considered that. That means then that a device will only use 800 where there is no 2100. In some ways this isn't a bad idea as it's being used to finally fix Three's main problem, poor remote rural and indoor coverage.
It also means 800 won't be too overloaded for a while.

I wonder where the switching threshold is set?
It's going to be pretty rubbish if you have great 800 only for the phone to switch to an unusable 1 bar 3G signal. I assume they can adjust this in an upward direction (lower 800 to higher 2100 priority) like they can when going from higher to lower, 4G1800 to 3G for example.
Did that make sense?

EDIT: Hey you edited your post!!! Haha
Yes the VoLTE thing, you are right.
800 has to be the lowest priority.
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Old 13-09-2015, 13:53
Denco1
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Ah yes, I hadn't considered that. That means then that a device will only use 800 where there is no 2100. In some ways this isn't a bad idea as it's being used to finally fix Three's main problem, poor remote rural and indoor coverage.
It also means 800 won't be too overloaded for a while.

I wonder where the switching threshold is set?
It's going to be pretty rubbish if you have great 800 only for the phone to switch to an unusable 1 bar 3G signal. I assume they can adjust this in an upward direction (lower 800 to higher 2100 priority) like they can when going from higher to lower, 4G1800 to 3G for example.
Did that make sense?

EDIT: Hey you edited your post!!! Haha
Yes the VoLTE thing, you are right.
800 has to be the lowest priority I would have thought.
Sorry, on this forum I always end up posting and then making a million edits to my posts

What you say about the switching threshold makes perfect sense if I've understood you correctly. I guess it would be around when 4G reaches -124dBm, rather than when 3G reaches a certain strength, as the phone would only be reporting to the network its current 4G strength and wouldn't be reporting anything about 3G strength until it was actually connected to the 3G network.

I see why Three have the network set up this way, but unless one day Three decide to properly build out 1800MHz and allow VoLTE over it, EE and Vodafone will nearly always be superior to Three once they both start VoLTE this year.

At least all us EE customers know we aren't missing out on much atm
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Old 13-09-2015, 13:55
GavinAshford
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Earlier this morning I did a bit of testing with the phones I've got access to and only Nexus 6 can connect to 800. My Nexus 5 (on Marshmallow 6.0 preview 3) and Moto G LTE 2013 (on 5.1) cannot connect at all.

The location I was in was at -112dB on Cell ID 7 on my Nexus 6 and was showing as TAC/LAC 5057 and Node 4621.
Though on my Moto G I was able to connect to the same Node (4621) but it was showing a different TAC/LAC: 1378. This was on Cell ID 1 (therefore 1800) at -128dB.

Anyone with any knowledge regarding TAC/LAC/Nodes confirm (or not) if that as the Nodes match is that likely to be the same mast?
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Old 13-09-2015, 14:25
Denco1
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Earlier this morning I did a bit of testing with the phones I've got access to and only Nexus 6 can connect to 800. My Nexus 5 (on Marshmallow 6.0 preview 3) and Moto G LTE 2013 (on 5.1) cannot connect at all.

The location I was in was at -112dB on Cell ID 7 on my Nexus 6 and was showing as TAC/LAC 5057 and Node 4621.
Though on my Moto G I was able to connect to the same Node (4621) but it was showing a different TAC/LAC: 1378. This was on Cell ID 1 (therefore 1800) at -128dB.

Anyone with any knowledge regarding TAC/LAC/Nodes confirm (or not) if that as the Nodes match is that likely to be the same mast?
As far as I understand the same eNodeB means the same mast, ie BBU, RF units etc.
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Old 13-09-2015, 14:31
Denco1
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In light of the 800MHz priority discovery, then surely the Three 4G coverage map is misleading?
It should really show 1800MHz+(800MHz-2100MHz) but instead it is showing 1800MHz+800MHz. Obviously not a problem if the intention is to increase the priority of 800MHz to above 2100MHz, but for now surely it is incorrect to be showing what they are at the moment?

I wonder what Ofcom would make of it, does 800MHz 4G which exists but is effectively unconnectable due to priority levels, actually count as 4G coverage or not? If Ofcom say no and Three don't plan to enable VoLTE over 1800MHz then an almighty argument over whether they have met there coverage obligation is going to breakout.

The figures would be interesting to see, 800MHz may currently reach 50% of the population, but how much was previously uncovered altogether, 5% maybe? Adding that to whatever the 1800MHz population coverage is would give us the true 4G population coverage, probably much less than 50%.
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Old 13-09-2015, 15:06
Denco1
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Ignore what I said about not meeting there coverage obligation, I forgot they didn't have the same conditions that O2 have regarding 2mbps to 98% of the population, Three only have to stick to 90% geographical voice/text which should be reachable.
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Old 13-09-2015, 15:30
Skippy2005
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Ignore what I said about not meeting there coverage obligation, I forgot they didn't have the same conditions that O2 have regarding 2mbps to 98% of the population, Three only have to stick to 90% geographical voice/text which should be reachable.
I'm going ask a dumb question, can you use data on 800 or is it strictly calls only. The reason I ask is, I get no 3G/4G on 3 indoors! This would also be a factor for when I get round to switching from Vodafone.
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Old 13-09-2015, 15:35
Denco1
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I'm going ask a dumb question, can you use data on 800 or is it strictly calls only. The reason I ask is, I get no 3G/4G on 3 indoors! This would also be a factor for when I get round to switching from Vodafone.
Not dumb at all, Three haven't exactly made themselves clear about things so far.
But yes, you will be able to use data on 800 just don't expect it to be mighty fast, but fast enough to do what's needed on a phone.
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Old 13-09-2015, 15:43
Skippy2005
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Not dumb at all, Three haven't exactly made themselves clear about things so far.
But yes, you will be able to use data on 800 just don't expect it to be mighty fast, but fast enough to do what's needed on a phone.
Excellent I'm not bothered about speed, between 3-5mb would be faster enough for anything I need! Thanks guys😀
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Old 13-09-2015, 16:03
Carl_Boys
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I'm hoping I can use 800 for data, that's why I bought the 5s second hand. Maybe I should of waited and bought a 6s. No money though ha
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