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Three 4G Discussion Thread (Part 2)
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Denco1
25-10-2015
The guide for VoLTE on unlocked G4s has now been published by michaelpro for anyone who was wondering.

It seems to work very well, but considering I can receive EE 2600MHz in my location I would expect more than -124dbm of 800MHz from Three, especially given Three 1800MHz is also poor here. That has seriously affected my upload speeds to less than 0.5mbps.

I'll post some screenshots soon and continue to update about coverage throughout Manchester
Gigabit
25-10-2015
Originally Posted by Denco1:
“The guide for VoLTE on unlocked G4s has now been published by michaelpro for anyone who was wondering.

It seems to work very well, but considering I can receive EE 2600MHz in my location I would expect more than -124dbm of 800MHz from Three, especially given Three 1800MHz is also poor here. That has seriously affected my upload speeds to less than 0.5mbps.

I'll post some screenshots soon and continue to update about coverage throughout Manchester”

I suspect the 800MHz signal is coming from a faraway mast. You'll be amazed how far 800MHz can travel.
Denco1
25-10-2015
Originally Posted by Gigabit:
“I suspect the 800MHz signal is coming from a faraway mast. You'll be amazed how far 800MHz can travel.”

Indeed it probably is, I can just about pickup three different eNodebs from my location. But less than 2miles from Manchester City Centre and only about -120dbm signal with sub 8mbps downloads I consider poor.

8mbps is fine if it is consistent and long term, but when you realise that it should have basically no users due to 0 cell reselection priority it really does make me worry what it will be like once Three let more users onto it.
Pedro_C
25-10-2015
Sorry if this has been asked, but does '4G switcher' app work on an S5 and also do the secret code band selection work if I do: 'Open file /efs/carrier/HiddenMenu and modify its content from OFF to ON. Then reboot the phone.' like on XDA forum
jchamier
25-10-2015
Originally Posted by Gigabit:
“You'll be amazed how far 800MHz can travel.”

I assume Three 800mhz is on higher power than Vodafone or O2 due to VoLTE ?
Stereo Steve
25-10-2015
It goes miles. At Buckland Abbey today and picked up 3 800 4G (I can't use it but can see it). Nothing else but VO2 2G on offer as far as I could see. I did pop in the EE SIM but nothing, unless they were doing work on the mast today. So yes, they are running it on full power and EE probably will too. It's going to be good. I expect in time, EE will do a better job of it.
jonmorris
25-10-2015
800 coverage looks stunning, so yes I'd say so.
Gigabit
25-10-2015
The thing that is impressive to me is that the performance is still really good even at -120dBm. Better than Three's 3G speeds in certain areas with excellent signal!
Denco1
25-10-2015
I beginning to wonder what the usable range of the signal is.
eNodeB 666 is Hathersage Road carpark in Manchester, quite unique I think as it has three antennas per sector and broadcasts 800/1800/2100/2600.

2 miles away and my phone fluctuates between -128dbm and no signal for that cell, isn't filling me with confidence in the usuable range of Three 800MHz. Terrain probably plays a huge part in the signal attenuation, but I was expecting a better signal strength from that location.
jonmorris
26-10-2015
If you've got a phone with VoLTE support on Three, it would be tempting to lock it to 4G only. Should still get good speeds, and lower latency.

But despite having a shed load of phones, I don't have a single one that I can use with VoLTE because none of them have come from Three, and the sooner users can enter the relevant settings manually the better.
nigelbb
26-10-2015
Originally Posted by Yossi:
“they tend to show very little interest in fixing their problems.
Stansted airport has had signal issues for years and years and still they can't be bothered to fix it.”

I encountered problems with Three at Stansted when I landed there last Monday. Despite 4 bars 3G signal on my iPhone 5s I couldn't use Safari or collect email. I assumed it was just a temporary glitch. I did have poor signal within the terminal building when flying out.
DevonBloke
26-10-2015
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“If you've got a phone with VoLTE support on Three, it would be tempting to lock it to 4G only. Should still get good speeds, and lower latency.

But despite having a shed load of phones, I don't have a single one that I can use with VoLTE because none of them have come from Three, and the sooner users can enter the relevant settings manually the better.”

I have a feeling VoLTE will always be locked down to Network handsets.
SImply because VoLTE and WiFi calling are essentially the same thing using different data transports.
WiFi calling is an unsecured connection to the network from the outside. This hasn't happened before. They need some sort of control, hence no jailbroken or generic OSs.
How long before someone finds a vulnerability in IMS? Imagine the chaos!
moox
26-10-2015
Originally Posted by DevonBloke:
“I have a feeling VoLTE will always be locked down to Network handsets.
SImply because VoLTE and WiFi calling are essentially the same thing using different data transports.
WiFi calling is an unsecured connection to the network from the outside. This hasn't happened before. They need some sort of control, hence no jailbroken or generic OSs.
How long before someone finds a vulnerability in IMS? Imagine the chaos!”

Can't speak for the IMS world specifically, but remember that VoIP companies around the world have their SIP infrastructure out in the open and allow anyone with a SIP phone to use their service. It's a problem that has existed for years and products exist to try to limit the damage an attacker can cause.

I would expect that in time it's far more likely that someone will work out how to impersonate a "network handset" on a SIM free one, if it doesn't turn out that VoLTE/wifi calling are available to everyone anyway
GrannyGruntbuck
26-10-2015
I have seen no evidence that 3 UK Volte travels many miles.

Volte was enabled on my local transmitter less than 750 mtrs from my house.

I only fleetingly for a few seconds get a 800 4G signal and then only one bar on my Samsung galaxy s6 edge.

I do also get it again fleetingly for a few seconds at a time at work in Canterbury.

Since this firmware installed to enable volte, battery drain is awful.

There is works scheduled for tomorrow on my transmitter after 3 days of works not so long ago to enable volte. If this work does not give me a signal worth having, be it 3G or 4G of any kind then I am going to flash non 3 UK firmware again to get rid of the battery drain issue.
I don't mind putting up with it if I have a good signal from a reasonably close mast, but I don't.
DevonBloke
26-10-2015
Originally Posted by Stereo Steve:
“It goes miles. At Buckland Abbey today and picked up 3 800 4G (I can't use it but can see it). Nothing else but VO2 2G on offer as far as I could see. I did pop in the EE SIM but nothing, unless they were doing work on the mast today. So yes, they are running it on full power and EE probably will too. It's going to be good. I expect in time, EE will do a better job of it.”

Looking at the maps EE 2G is very weak there and both their and Three's 3G is not really there at all.
Right on the edge of Three 800 there but it is better than 2G or 3G.
iTech
26-10-2015
I thought that some time this month the Three In Touch app was going to be updated to allow some people to access more of the network (I never fully understood the plan as you can probably tell!). Anybody know more?
moox
26-10-2015
Originally Posted by iTech:
“I thought that some time this month the Three In Touch app was going to be updated to allow some people to access more of the network (I never fully understood the plan as you can probably tell!). Anybody know more?”

Speculating, but I wonder how practical it would be to have the inTouch app do "VoLTE" on phones that aren't strictly VoLTE compatible?

Maybe have the network check for a successful inTouch log-in over LTE, and if not, you get kicked back down to 3G perhaps? Or you get allowed to use 800 4G if it can sense you have the app running on 1800 4G or 3G?

This is way outside of my area of expertise so I really don't know if that'd work
Zebb
26-10-2015
The 3 coverage postcode input box seems to have gone?
DevonBloke
26-10-2015
Originally Posted by moox:
“Can't speak for the IMS world specifically, but remember that VoIP companies around the world have their SIP infrastructure out in the open and allow anyone with a SIP phone to use their service. It's a problem that has existed for years and products exist to try to limit the damage an attacker can cause.

I would expect that in time it's far more likely that someone will work out how to impersonate a "network handset" on a SIM free one, if it doesn't turn out that VoLTE/wifi calling are available to everyone anyway”

Yes but VOIP providers have always been packet based and on the open internet.
Up till now Mobile networks have been closed.
When EE switched on WC in April, that was the first time ever that a major mobile network was allowing unsecured access to their core network systems.
Granted it's still authenticating via the SIM but it's still a lot more risky than what went before.
Gotta happen though since all networks will eventually be totally IP based.
Obviously this will ultimately result in Skynet but you can't stop progress!!
DevonBloke
26-10-2015
Originally Posted by Zebb:
“The 3 coverage postcode input box seems to have gone? ”

I thought you'd gone mad but nope, you're right. It's not there.
Someone did an update and broke the page!
DevonBloke
26-10-2015
Originally Posted by moox:
“Speculating, but I wonder how practical it would be to have the inTouch app do "VoLTE" on phones that aren't strictly VoLTE compatible?

Maybe have the network check for a successful inTouch log-in over LTE, and if not, you get kicked back down to 3G perhaps? Or you get allowed to use 800 4G if it can sense you have the app running on 1800 4G or 3G?

This is way outside of my area of expertise so I really don't know if that'd work”

Since in touch isn't great anyway (nor are any other WC apps for that matter (not just singling out Three here)), wouldn't that just make a poor system worse?
The way to go is native WC.
Once you have VoLTE working the back end should be able to do WC.
Same codec, different route.
moox
26-10-2015
Originally Posted by DevonBloke:
“Yes but VOIP providers have always been packet based and on the open internet.
Up till now Mobile networks have been closed.
When EE switched on WC in April, that was the first time ever that a major mobile network was allowing unsecured access to their core network systems.
Granted it's still authenticating via the SIM but it's still a lot more risky than what went before.
Gotta happen though since all networks will eventually be totally IP based.
Obviously this will ultimately result in Skynet but you can't stop progress!!
”

My understanding is that IMS is largely SIP based though - with the mobile phone being an endpoint. What I meant was that the VoIP industry has already been there, done that as far as SIP security goes. The mobile infrastructure companies don't necessarily need to reinvent the wheel here.

(and IMO preventing unapproved handsets isn't going to stop anyone, whether that's a phone owner wanting VoLTE on their unapproved handset, or someone who wants to attack)

Originally Posted by DevonBloke:
“Since in touch isn't great anyway (nor are any other WC apps for that matter (not just singling out Three here)), wouldn't that just make a poor system worse?
The way to go is native WC.
Once you have VoLTE working the back end should be able to do WC.
Same codec, different route.”

I was thinking more like doing both. Not every LTE phone will be VoLTE capable (there will be some with compatible hardware but will probably not get the necessary software). A lot of them will still be in use years from now. "VoLTE lite" via inTouch would be a suitable compromise for those phones that can't do it natively - if it is practical and can be made to work reliably
Stereo Steve
26-10-2015
So the 'In touch' App is allowed to roam onto 800 but the phone isn't? Is that possible?
moox
26-10-2015
Originally Posted by Stereo Steve:
“So the 'In touch' App is allowed to roam onto 800 but the phone isn't? Is that possible?”

More like if you had inTouch set up, your phone would be allowed onto 800.

I don't know if it is possible, it was just a hope
FortKnox
26-10-2015
Originally Posted by Zebb:
“The 3 coverage postcode input box seems to have gone? ”

Coverage Checker has been fixed.
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