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Three 4G Discussion Thread (Part 2)


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Old 04-11-2015, 23:01
Gigabit
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Thanks for the explanation and the maps now make sense.

I wonder if an advancement would be to do a postcode comparison between each map change.

I recall there being a spreadsheet with lots of postcodes in but I don't recall if that had to have data entered manually or whether it was automated.
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Old 05-11-2015, 05:50
natbike
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Updates to both maps
24th Oct vs 4th Nov
1800: http://gdurl.com/ky2E
800: http://gdurl.com/kRjX
Thanks again for doing this. It's an excellent way to see the progress.

I wonder how many engineer teams Three have working to achieve this?

It looks like ~35 sites changed on 1800 and ~23 on 800. That's much better than I expected for 2 weeks.
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Old 05-11-2015, 07:25
GavinAshford
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Thanks for the explanation and the maps now make sense.

I wonder if an advancement would be to do a postcode comparison between each map change.

I recall there being a spreadsheet with lots of postcodes in but I don't recall if that had to have data entered manually or whether it was automated.
Sorry for the lack of explanation, I've posted a few so I presumed people knew what they were looking at - I'll include the comment every time in the future.

These maps can be done within a few minutes but the postcode spreadsheet is automated but takes like 16-18hours to cycle through though - like Three has a rate limit on number of requests (they probably do). I'll probably do a spreadsheet refresh at the end of the year when they're supposed to have their 98% population coverage of 4G.
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Old 05-11-2015, 10:03
tarzion
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Is the OpenSignal site accurate?

I was checking the masts around my area today and I noticed a new mast appearing very close to my house but I can't physically see it.

The old mast I was connecting to all the time has disappeared.
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Old 05-11-2015, 10:28
DevonBloke
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Is the OpenSignal site accurate?

I was checking the masts around my area today and I noticed a new mast appearing very close to my house but I can't physically see it.

The old mast I was connecting to all the time has disappeared.
Unfortunately not.
It uses a combination of triangulation, guesswork and witchcraft to mark where a site might be.
Can be fairly accurate or completely inaccurate.
When I tried it it put a known mast I was looking at about 1km the other side of the road.
It was at this point I uninstalled the app!


EDIT: For Three, to find any masts installed up to 2012 it's better to use sitefinder.
Not accurate after 2012 though. http://www.sitefinder.ofcom.org.uk/search
Also has no 4G info either.
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Old 05-11-2015, 10:32
Booster1573
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Is the OpenSignal site accurate?

I was checking the masts around my area today and I noticed a new mast appearing very close to my house but I can't physically see it.

The old mast I was connecting to all the time has disappeared.
OpenSignal is definitely not accurate. I'd recommend Ofcom's Sitefinder which while not up to date at least gives you the location of masts and their heights. For new masts, it may be possible to check your local planning applications.
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Old 05-11-2015, 10:34
tarzion
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For new masts, it may be possible to check your local planning applications.
This is exactly what I have been trying to find for months now.

All I can see on my local councils website is building planning applications.

EDIT: Finally found it.
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Old 05-11-2015, 11:03
jaffboy151
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Searching the half dozen local authorities around my area I've found what masts I can find upgrade details on a bit hit n miss. Very few of the large site upgrades from any of the network found, mainly all Street/road side masts. Wrekin council in Shropshire & East Cheshire seems the worst, East Cheshire is impossible to search anything on and Wrekin seems to have detailed info on some masts and none on others like the pole swap & three 4g cabinet install on Whitchurch drive, or the Vodafone/O2 mast upgrade taking place on halesfield industrial estate next week.. Very annoying,
Quick note on site mast searchers, there all pretty crap, particularly open signal & LTE Discovery which seem to just invent locations based on no obvious logic, network signal info app gives me a bit more joy to roughly find things,
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Old 05-11-2015, 11:17
Gigabit
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Super-Voice is showing all around Hampshire now but even if I force it on my G4 it is never picked up so I can only assume it isn't actually live yet?
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Old 05-11-2015, 12:42
steven_good2
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Super-Voice is showing all around Hampshire now but even if I force it on my G4 it is never picked up so I can only assume it isn't actually live yet?
Don't believe the coverage checker because it's shows that the area I live in is fully covered by 800, but I can't pick it up when I do a manual network scan. I think 3 think the signal stretches for miles when in reality it doesn't.
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Old 05-11-2015, 12:48
Gigabit
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Trust me it does travel for miles! Miles and miles and miles...

I can pick it up - it's a very weak signal - but it is not on any mast that is near to me despite what the coverage checker suggests.

But believe me, when all masts are enabled, it will be pretty incredible, coverage-wise.
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Old 05-11-2015, 16:33
jaffboy151
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800mhz does travel incredibly far and reach indoors far far better then 2100mhz, my 2 nearest masts both have three 2100mhz 3g and Vodafone 900mhz 2g, not quite 800mhz but if I sit in my living room I have -79db Vodafone yet no three signal to speak of at all. In the same place I also get low power 800mhz 4g from a Vodafone mast nearly 10 miles away. Trouble with travelling so far on such narrow available bandwidth unless they protect it as they are doing it will get swamped and not work, just like Vodafone's 3g 900mhz does.
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Old 05-11-2015, 16:39
Gigabit
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The bandwidth is certainly an issue. As long as Three can maintain a 5Mb speed for most people I think 800MHz will work well enough.

Even at -115dBm I've been able to get 25Mb on 800MHz wwithThree for example.
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Old 05-11-2015, 18:53
Pedro_C
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Called up 3 second line again who said that there should be more capacity installed on my local site come the 23rd of this Month. If it brings me above 0.00mbps, I'll be happy
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Old 05-11-2015, 18:55
eljmayes
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Is there any reason why Three won't allow everyone with a compatible phone to access the 800 band 4G data now? Or is it linked into the super voice capability? To be honest I couldn't give two hoots about clearer phone calls currently.
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Old 05-11-2015, 19:29
-ajm-
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Wish 1800 would be increased in Hampshire. Still nothing here.
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Old 05-11-2015, 19:37
lightspeed2398
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Called up 3 second line again
What's the best way to get through to 3 second line?
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Old 05-11-2015, 19:43
RAN Man
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Thanks again for doing this. It's an excellent way to see the progress.

I wonder how many engineer teams Three have working to achieve this?

It looks like ~35 sites changed on 1800 and ~23 on 800. That's much better than I expected for 2 weeks.
So at that rate, only 10 years or so to complete the rest! That's simply nowhere near the rollout speed of the other networks.
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Old 05-11-2015, 19:56
Thine Wonk
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So at that rate, only 10 years or so to complete the rest! That's simply nowhere near the rollout speed of the other networks.
Thee performed best for calls in the p3 tests, the other networks had a much older legacy of not upgrading routinely and instead saving it up for 1 big burst of expenditure. Even Cornerstone is made up of thousands and thousands of non upgraded 2G and 3G standalone masts.

Of course the other factor is cost and what you get for your money. Not all networks have the same strategy, you can pay a lot more if you want crazy speeds, or you can get a lower cost package from Three with 98% population DC-HSPA and also an ever growing 4G LTE layer with VoLTE as well.
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Old 05-11-2015, 20:09
Gigabit
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Wish 1800 would be increased in Hampshire. Still nothing here.
Agreed. It's hilariously bad, even on the M3!
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Old 05-11-2015, 20:16
Pedro_C
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A bit of background:
My area has a 3G2100MHz strength of around -70dBm, speeds are basically 0mbps
4G 1800MHz at about -110dBm, speeds around 5/5 on a good day, cell ID 0.

This area should have good VoLTE, but obviously the phone will not connect due to priorities. So I decided to play with APNs. I created a new APN with exactly the same details as the normal H3G one, but with bearer set to LTE.

Then when I connected to that, it sat on 1800 for a few seconds, before connecting to a signal with Cell ID 6 and a signal of -96dBm, this signal let me make calls without it dropping to H+ too. Speeds were much higher than the 1800 too.

The LTE APN only seems to connect when I'm in an area with 1800, so if the phone cannot pick up an 1800 signal, it deselects the LTE APN and moves back to the H3G normal one.

EDIT: Pics here: http://pedroc.co.uk/semiforcevolte.htm
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Old 05-11-2015, 20:33
jaffboy151
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So at that rate, only 10 years or so to complete the rest! That's simply nowhere near the rollout speed of the other networks.
Really? I naively thought that seemed quite good!
Cornerstone don't feel like they've been doing anywhere near this, EE on the other hand seem to be powering forward,
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Old 05-11-2015, 20:59
DevonBloke
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A bit of background:
My area has a 3G2100MHz strength of around -70dBm, speeds are basically 0mbps
4G 1800MHz at about -110dBm, speeds around 5/5 on a good day, cell ID 0.
0mbps at -70dBm? Is it any slower at -90dBm??
Hahahahaha
I must go find that coat..... again.....

This area should have good VoLTE, but obviously the phone will not connect due to priorities. So I decided to play with APNs. I created a new APN with exactly the same details as the normal H3G one, but with bearer set to LTE.

Then when I connected to that, it sat on 1800 for a few seconds, before connecting to a signal with Cell ID 6 and a signal of -96dBm, this signal let me make calls without it dropping to H+ too. Speeds were much higher than the 1800 too.

The LTE APN only seems to connect when I'm in an area with 1800, so if the phone cannot pick up an 1800 signal, it deselects the LTE APN and moves back to the H3G normal one.

EDIT: Pics here: http://pedroc.co.uk/semiforcevolte.htm
Ok, so I don't get any of that.
If 800 will only connect when you have 1800 then it will simply not connect at all since it will then also have 3G (most of the time). What the hell is the point of that?
What is the point of what they are doing?
Surely if for example you are outside a building with 1-2 bars 3G and go inside where it would normally drop, it should then connect to a, 2-4 bar 800 signal?
If not, what the hell is the point of having 800 in the first place?
Did that make sense? What are your thoughts on this?
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Old 05-11-2015, 21:04
Thine Wonk
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A bit of background:
My area has a 3G2100MHz strength of around -70dBm, speeds are basically 0mbps
4G 1800MHz at about -110dBm, speeds around 5/5 on a good day, cell ID 0.

This area should have good VoLTE, but obviously the phone will not connect due to priorities. So I decided to play with APNs. I created a new APN with exactly the same details as the normal H3G one, but with bearer set to LTE.

Then when I connected to that, it sat on 1800 for a few seconds, before connecting to a signal with Cell ID 6 and a signal of -96dBm, this signal let me make calls without it dropping to H+ too. Speeds were much higher than the 1800 too.

The LTE APN only seems to connect when I'm in an area with 1800, so if the phone cannot pick up an 1800 signal, it deselects the LTE APN and moves back to the H3G normal one.

EDIT: Pics here: http://pedroc.co.uk/semiforcevolte.htm
What phone? only 2 or 3 devices work with 800Mhz on Three at the moment, with more due to be enabled in the coming days and weeks. You also need to have Three firmware in most cases.
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Old 05-11-2015, 21:06
Pedro_C
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What phone? only 2 or 3 devices work with 800Mhz on Three at the moment, with more due to be enabled in the coming days and weeks. You also need to have Three firmware in most cases.
Samsung S5, in the title. With 3 firmware.
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