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Jamie Raven was not even that good |
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#26 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Yeah I've seen how the invisible deck trick is done. Although it is very impressive considering how simple the idea is, and you still have to have a good memory for numbers/pairs... .................
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#27 |
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Join Date: Jun 2014
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I wouldn't have thought you needed a good memory. There's only one number involved. Would you need to memorise all the pairs to answer the question : "If a die shows the number 4, what number is on the opposite face".
![]() PSSSSST! I'll actually let you into a magic secret as it does address this subject of the invisible deck and memory once and for all. When you get the deck it will be paired in a certain way that the manufacture recommends. You can learn that if you wish, or, as the cards are not glued together, most magicians repair the cards into an easier pairing that they can remember. No one is paying that close attention to the deck and so you can't pair up a black ace on one side with the opposite black ace on the other. How easy is that to remember? - Spectator says "Ace of Spades" you take out the deck the right side up and thumb through till you find the Ace of Clubs and separate there. The face down card will be the other black Ace of Spades. No memory required. Of course you can pair it up in any way you want but not many stick with the standard set up their the deck comes in. Hopefully this has been helpful and clear up all the arguing about how much memory work an invisible deck takes: It can take as much or as little as you want it to take. |
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#28 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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3! What do I win?
![]() PSSSSST! I'll actually let you into a magic secret as it does address this subject of the invisible deck and memory once and for all..................... No one is paying that close attention to the deck and so you can't pair up a black ace on one side with the opposite black ace on the other. How easy is that to remember? - ...................... BIB - I assume you meant that you can pair up same colour aces. I suppose you could pair up every card with the one of the same colour and equal value. |
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#29 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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HE does a good bill switch I'll give that at least.
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#30 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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HE does a good bill switch I'll give that at least.
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#31 |
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,501
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3! What do I win?
![]() PSSSSST! I'll actually let you into a magic secret as it does address this subject of the invisible deck and memory once and for all. When you get the deck it will be paired in a certain way that the manufacture recommends. You can learn that if you wish, or, as the cards are not glued together, most magicians repair the cards into an easier pairing that they can remember. No one is paying that close attention to the deck and so you can't pair up a black ace on one side with the opposite black ace on the other. How easy is that to remember? - Spectator says "Ace of Spades" you take out the deck the right side up and thumb through till you find the Ace of Clubs and separate there. The face down card will be the other black Ace of Spades. No memory required. Of course you can pair it up in any way you want but not many stick with the standard set up their the deck comes in. Hopefully this has been helpful and clear up all the arguing about how much memory work an invisible deck takes: It can take as much or as little as you want it to take. deck works but I was thinking that since it is on TV it might have been a good idea to change it up. Not only changing which ones are paired but even which ones are on each side. It would make it more awkward and mean more practice. Also it might make it riskier. But if, for instance, he spread the cards and there was the 6 of hearts beside the 3 of clubs, then behind the 6 was the 10 of diamonds, that would have thrown the casual magic enthusiasts off thinking maybe it's not the classic deck. |
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#32 |
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Join Date: Jun 2014
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You win box sets of dynamo, troy and cross chris. Enjoy.
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BIB - I assume you meant that you can pair up same colour aces. I suppose you could pair up every card with the one of the same colour and equal value.
Yes that's the idea that you can simply pair up the same colour same value opposite of every card, I just used the Ace as an example. Or you can use one of the many simpler set ups known to magicians or one completely of your own invention or the original way it comes in the box. It's just that several people have been arguing about how hard the memory system is to learn and how quickly you can get to a card, so I thought I'd clear it up by posting that 1. it can be changed from the order that it comes in and 2. most magicians do exactly that.
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#33 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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IBut if, for instance, he spread the cards and there was the 6 of hearts beside the 3 of clubs, then behind the 6 was the 10 of diamonds, that would have thrown the casual magic enthusiasts off thinking maybe it's not the classic deck.
Edit - as an aside, what's a good way to style it out if the card picked just happens to be on the bottom? I always think it looks a bit shit when it's the last card, as it looks like it's just been added. Cut the deck? But that kinda goes against the whole "I'm not going to do anything to the deck other than spread it" thing which makes the trick so great. |
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#34 |
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This is such a pathetic criticism. The only people who would notice are people who know how the deck works anyway, so what does it matter? The only reason I ever thought for changing the off-the-shelf arrangement is if somebody might notice that they're only seeing all odd or all even, but they never EVER do. So why bother? It adds nothing to the effect. (Even with that said, I recoil at the suggestion in here to back spades against clubs of the same rank, as I think people would notice only seeing two suits - but again, maybe they wouldn't.)
so rude. ![]() Anyway it was not a criticism. It was only a comment regarding the fact that a small group of the audience will be able to recognize the trick immediately, and then who knows, kick off on a forum or something. I also pointed out that most of the audience won't need any such convoluted methods. It was just a thought of how he could have made the trick slightly different. It was not a way of putting him down. Why would I feel the need to put someone down?
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#35 |
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Join Date: Jun 2014
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I don't suppose it matters with a regular audience as they probably won't know how the
deck works but I was thinking that since it is on TV it might have been a good idea to change it up. Not only changing which ones are paired but even which ones are on each side. It would make it more awkward and mean more practice. Also it might make it riskier. But if, for instance, he spread the cards and there was the 6 of hearts beside the 3 of clubs, then behind the 6 was the 10 of diamonds, that would have thrown the casual magic enthusiasts off thinking maybe it's not the classic deck. There are also other deck systems and orders to do other tricks and when playing for a general lay audience you would be surprised how simple and obvious a set up you can get away with. There are of course many well know stacked deck systems ranging from so simple to quite complex that requires a bit of brain work to work out the chosen card. But generally things only need to be as complicated as they need to be - You don't want to mess up because your brain can't work under pressure. A true story: I was with friends last year and we were watching a magician on TV and I instantly spotted the stacked deck system he was using and named the spectator's card before he did. My friend's were most impressed even though they know I'm in the business. They were impressed that I could do it via TV without handling the cards. So yes, when on TV, best to use a lesser known system in any card set up. |
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#36 |
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Join Date: Jun 2014
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and then ruins it with touching the bag.
You are inventing things to dislike him that are just not valid. Just say you hated him and that you were not entertained at all by his act, as that is a valid opinion and doesn't require any bogus invention that he did something wrong in that bit when 1000s of tricks end that way. |
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#37 |
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Sorry, but do you know anything about magic?
If you did that in one of your own tricks, i would call you out on it too. Having deliberately set aside the box, only to then get Alesha to open it carefully and remove another box, and then get Alesha to open that, he was clearly gearing up so that he would not touch anything. However he then grabbed the bag making the double box useless and pointless. Do you understand? |
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#38 |
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How did he come second His act was not original He should have done something similar to the Helicopter trick
I agree with you. Just a big con and not a good one at that. |
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#39 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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I really don't understand why so many of the comments about this magic act have to be so rude.
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#40 |
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Join Date: May 2012
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Six quid for a lemon?
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#41 |
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Join Date: Jun 2014
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We are all entitled to our opinion.
If you did that in one of your own tricks, i would call you out on it too. Having deliberately set aside the box, only to then get Alesha to open it carefully and remove another box, and then get Alesha to open that, he was clearly gearing up so that he would not touch anything. However he then grabbed the bag making the double box useless and pointless. Do you understand? You'd call someone out? Who are you? Thank you for showing what this new generation is all about and their nasty 'get the magician' attitude due entirely to their understanding of a simple magic show. You had better yourself around to a few shows as there are numerous tricks that end that way and have been standards for years. Just where does this new generation of spectators get the attitude from that they run the magician's show, not the magician? You sit and watch and take part if and when asked to. You are then free to decide if you enjoyed it or not. You don't get to dictate what the magician does or when. As of the nasty attitude of you saying that you would call them out and attempt to ruin their act, that says everything we need to know. |
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#42 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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We are all entitled to our opinion.
If you did that in one of your own tricks, i would call you out on it too. Having deliberately set aside the box, only to then get Alesha to open it carefully and remove another box, and then get Alesha to open that, he was clearly gearing up so that he would not touch anything. However he then grabbed the bag making the double box useless and pointless. Do you understand? You are clueless,examples here that crush that theory. See two magicians taking lemon from the bag themselves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5SQzmnM-cY 1mn 50. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxUhWL-xwjA 2min 05 |
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#43 |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,533
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Do you understand that magic is a form on entertainment and if you turned up to one of my shows with that bad arrogant get the magician as it's you self-elected job as you don't get that it's just a piece of entertainment, I'd have you thrown out!
You'd call someone out? Who are you? Thank you for showing what this new generation is all about and their nasty 'get the magician' attitude due entirely to their understanding of a simple magic show. You had better yourself around to a few shows as there are numerous tricks that end that way and have been standards for years. Just where does this new generation of spectators get the attitude from that they run the magician's show, not the magician? You sit and watch and take part if and when asked to. You are then free to decide if you enjoyed it or not. You don't get to dictate what the magician does or when. As of the nasty attitude of you saying that you would call them out and attempt to ruin their act, that says everything we need to know. |
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#44 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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He didnt grab the bag he asked her to pass it to him,just like in these clips,"gearing up so he didnt touch anything" is your opinion,it was merely an impossible location trick.
You are clueless,examples here that crush that theory. See two magicians taking lemon from the bag themselves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5SQzmnM-cY 1mn 50. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxUhWL-xwjA 2min 05 |
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#45 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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We are all entitled to our opinion.
If you did that in one of your own tricks, i would call you out on it too. Having deliberately set aside the box, only to then get Alesha to open it carefully and remove another box, and then get Alesha to open that, he was clearly gearing up so that he would not touch anything. However he then grabbed the bag making the double box useless and pointless. Do you understand? |
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#46 |
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Gee thanks! I thought you liked me?
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............. The only people who would notice are people who know how the deck works anyway, so what does it matter? The only reason I ever thought for changing the off-the-shelf arrangement is if somebody might notice that they're only seeing all odd or all even, but they never EVER do. So why bother? It adds nothing to the effect. (Even with that said, I recoil at the suggestion in here to back spades against clubs of the same rank, as I think people would notice only seeing two suits - but again, maybe they wouldn't.)...........
However, is there any reason why pairs shouldn't be turned over within the pack? There's no reason the pack should show all odds, all evens, or the same two suits. |
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#47 |
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However, is there any reason why pairs shouldn't be turned over within the pack? There's no reason the pack should show all odds, all evens, or the same two suits.
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#48 |
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I thought he was good too but .....
.... when he said that he was the most talented human in 2015 I lost all respect for him. Dogs have to be trained and to train the winning act to do what we saw must have taken some patience and skill. I'm not saying that Jules and Matisse should have won, as they did, but I really didn't like Jamie's comment. he belittled a fellow contestant. [And yes, I have seen the "other" thread] |
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#49 |
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TBF, all you've really done there is link us to two far, far superior handlings of a similar trick. Raven's was clunky for exactly the reason codeblue states, and that isn't evident in either of these two videos.
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#50 |
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Just making the point to contradict codeblue who said magicians dont handle bag or lemon.
This is why i think it was a bad trick. I first assumed he had bailed out of getting the note into the bag through the boxes, as i didnt think he would touch the bag because of the above. The fact that he then did so, on purpose as part of the plan, well, it just smacks of a poor trick. I will stick with that opinion. |
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