Why is Shirley brought into every sharon discussion?
EE Sharon/Ben/Kathy/Gordon
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Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“Phil shouldn't have done what he did. Why shouldn't sharon have acted the way she did?”
“Phil shouldn't have done what he did. Why shouldn't sharon have acted the way she did?”
Oh I don't approve of his behaviour either and think Sharon was right to play him at his own game, but she involved an innocent party.
Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“Why is Shirley brought into every sharon discussion?”
“Why is Shirley brought into every sharon discussion?”
Sorry that was my fault.. I made a valid point about the double standards but I didn't expect it to dominate discussion.
Sharon did it to score points off Phil, in the meantime she opened a can of worms for Ben
I hope she loses the albert
I hope she loses the albert
Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“Phil shouldn't have done what he did. Why shouldn't sharon have acted the way she did?”
“Phil shouldn't have done what he did. Why shouldn't sharon have acted the way she did?”
I in no way disagree with Sharon playing Phil at his own game, I just don't agree with her using Ben to get one over on Phil.
Originally Posted by broadshoulder:
“Sharon did it to score points off Phil, in the meantime she opened a can of worms for Ben
I hope she loses the albert”
“Sharon did it to score points off Phil, in the meantime she opened a can of worms for Ben
I hope she loses the albert”
How? I'm genuinely interested in how people think this will affect him so badly, a mention of his mother that he never talks about anyway
he doesn't know or suspect she alive so it will be forgotten about until it needs to be brought up again, it was done for a reason, Shazza using Kathy was to make feel Phil unintentionally guilty more then anything because he knows she alive and that Gavin is probably Sharon dad, he is keeping it from everyone.
Originally Posted by Harlowe:
“How far can it be discussed exactly,”
“How far can it be discussed exactly,”
Well multiple page hate threads have sprung from brief spoilers about other characters so this thread is as valid as any other. It was a pretty big thing and we have seen it play out so any discussion isn't speculative. Not that there's anything wrong with speculative discussion but some of the Shirley threads along those lines are ott imo. She can't do right for doing wrong.
We didn't see much of Ben afterwards but he looked put out.
Quote:
“well from my recollection most of stuff discussed is what Shirley has done and if I recall most is dismissed from Shirley fans as minor.”
“well from my recollection most of stuff discussed is what Shirley has done and if I recall most is dismissed from Shirley fans as minor.”
I don't think I have ever dismissed Shirley's behaviour as 'minor' I might've pointed out the reasons behind it eg. her abusive childhood and being denied Mick leading to her inability to cope with her other children, and her belief in Dean's innocence being behind her nastiness towards Linda, but pointing out there are reasons for her behaviour - as established in the show - rather than her just being evil doesn't mean I am implying her behaviour is okay. Maybe others have given that impression but it's never been my objective in posting about the character.
What about Shirley helping Linda give birth... "Saint Shirl, they're going to use this to redeem her I won't buy it" etc... and it didn't happen. She got a lot of criticism for the Jade/Roya spoiler as well which appears to involve Masood as much as if not more than her, but he hasn't been slated for his part in it half as much.
Anyway I am sorry for bringing Shirley up, I did not expect it to dominate discussion as much as it has.
Originally Posted by Harlowe:
“How? I'm genuinely interested in how people think this will affect him so badly, a mention of his mother that he never talks about anyway he doesn't know or suspect she alive so it will be forgotten about until it needs to be brought up again, it was done for a reason, Shazza using Kathy was to make feel Phil unintentionally guilty more then anything because he knows she alive and that Gavin is probably Sharon dad, he is keeping it from everyone.”
“How? I'm genuinely interested in how people think this will affect him so badly, a mention of his mother that he never talks about anyway
he doesn't know or suspect she alive so it will be forgotten about until it needs to be brought up again, it was done for a reason, Shazza using Kathy was to make feel Phil unintentionally guilty more then anything because he knows she alive and that Gavin is probably Sharon dad, he is keeping it from everyone.”
It wont, but it will add to his hate when it comes out Kathy's been alive all this time.
Originally Posted by LHolmes:
“Well multiple page hate threads have sprung from brief spoilers about other characters so this thread is as valid as any other. It was a pretty big thing and we have seen it play out so any discussion isn't speculative. Not that there's anything wrong with speculative discussion but some of the Shirley threads along those lines are ott imo. She can't do right for doing wrong.
We didn't see much of Ben afterwards but he looked put out.
I don't think I have ever dismissed Shirley's behaviour as 'minor' I might've pointed out the reasons behind it eg. her abusive childhood and being denied Mick leading to her inability to cope with her other children, and her belief in Dean's innocence being behind her nastiness towards Linda, but pointing out there are reasons for her behaviour - as established in the show -- rather than her just being evil doesn't mean I am implying her behaviour is okay. Maybe others have given that impression but it's never been my objective in posting about the character.
What about Shirley helping Linda give birth... "Saint Shirl, they're going to use this to redeem her I won't buy it" etc... when it didn't happen. She got a lot of criticism for the Jade/Roya spoiler as well which appears to involve Masood as much as if not more than Shirley, but he hasn't been slated for his part in it half as much.
Anyway I am sorry for bringing Shirley up, I did not expect it to dominate discussion as much as it has.”
“Well multiple page hate threads have sprung from brief spoilers about other characters so this thread is as valid as any other. It was a pretty big thing and we have seen it play out so any discussion isn't speculative. Not that there's anything wrong with speculative discussion but some of the Shirley threads along those lines are ott imo. She can't do right for doing wrong.
We didn't see much of Ben afterwards but he looked put out.
I don't think I have ever dismissed Shirley's behaviour as 'minor' I might've pointed out the reasons behind it eg. her abusive childhood and being denied Mick leading to her inability to cope with her other children, and her belief in Dean's innocence being behind her nastiness towards Linda, but pointing out there are reasons for her behaviour - as established in the show -- rather than her just being evil doesn't mean I am implying her behaviour is okay. Maybe others have given that impression but it's never been my objective in posting about the character.
What about Shirley helping Linda give birth... "Saint Shirl, they're going to use this to redeem her I won't buy it" etc... when it didn't happen. She got a lot of criticism for the Jade/Roya spoiler as well which appears to involve Masood as much as if not more than Shirley, but he hasn't been slated for his part in it half as much.
Anyway I am sorry for bringing Shirley up, I did not expect it to dominate discussion as much as it has.
”
Brilliant post.
'Re Shirley, I have never seen any posters condone her behaviour, only understand the reasons behind why she acts the way she does which is perfectly acceptable.
It is the principle that Sharon should not have used an innocent party in order to get one up on Phil and bring Kathy, Ben's 'dead' mother into the mix, wasn't right.
Sharon was certainly bang out of order BUT I can see why she said this. Ben is Phil's son and using "Kathy" was the only way Phil could be "honest". But she shouldn't have done it. But I agree with the other posters, if it was Shirley who said this, then yes she would have been criticised more.
Anyway back on topic, I think it was a deliberate move from the writers. We know that Kathy will make a comeback soon and this will shock Sharon and Ben. Ben looked angry with Phil at the end so he will be more infuriated with Phil when he finds out Phil knew that Kathy has been alive for a while.
Phil needs karma ASAP. He has treated Sharon badly and this really needs to stop. I still think Phil is doing this to protect Sharon but he must be honest with her.
Anyway back on topic, I think it was a deliberate move from the writers. We know that Kathy will make a comeback soon and this will shock Sharon and Ben. Ben looked angry with Phil at the end so he will be more infuriated with Phil when he finds out Phil knew that Kathy has been alive for a while.
Phil needs karma ASAP. He has treated Sharon badly and this really needs to stop. I still think Phil is doing this to protect Sharon but he must be honest with her.
Originally Posted by Ell_Ren:
“Brilliant post.
'Re Shirley, I have never seen any posters condone her behaviour, only understand the reasons behind why she acts the way she does which is perfectly acceptable.”
“Brilliant post.
'Re Shirley, I have never seen any posters condone her behaviour, only understand the reasons behind why she acts the way she does which is perfectly acceptable.”
Yes, all I do is point out the reasons behind her behaviour for balance to the 'she is evil' stuff. I do like Shirley but I have absolutely no problem with others not doing so and if there wasn't an implication that she acts the way she does because she is evil I probably wouldn't get involved in most of the anti debates. Can't disagree that her behaviour is antagonistic a lot of the time so I have no issue with that itself being pointed out.
Thing is while I understand a fair bit of Shirley's behaviour, I can't really fathom Sharon's tonight. I know she was trying to crack Phil but she didn't have to use Ben to do it. He would've caved in eventually, he nearly did with the money. Another couple of nights with Gordon under the Mitchell roof and he'd have been singing like a canary.
Originally Posted by jamesc_715:
“Sharon was certainly bang out of order BUT I can see why she said this. Ben is Phil's son and using "Kathy" was the only way Phil could be "honest". But she shouldn't have done it. But I agree with the other posters, if it was Shirley who said this, then yes she would have been criticised more.
Anyway back on topic, I think it was a deliberate move from the writers. We know that Kathy will make a comeback soon and this will shock Sharon and Ben. Ben looked angry with Phil at the end so he will be more infuriated with Phil when he finds out Phil knew that Kathy has been alive for a while.
Phil needs karma ASAP. He has treated Sharon badly and this really needs to stop. I still think Phil is doing this to protect Sharon but he must be honest with her.”
“Sharon was certainly bang out of order BUT I can see why she said this. Ben is Phil's son and using "Kathy" was the only way Phil could be "honest". But she shouldn't have done it. But I agree with the other posters, if it was Shirley who said this, then yes she would have been criticised more.
Anyway back on topic, I think it was a deliberate move from the writers. We know that Kathy will make a comeback soon and this will shock Sharon and Ben. Ben looked angry with Phil at the end so he will be more infuriated with Phil when he finds out Phil knew that Kathy has been alive for a while.
Phil needs karma ASAP. He has treated Sharon badly and this really needs to stop. I still think Phil is doing this to protect Sharon but he must be honest with her.”
My sentiments exactly. I can understand why she did it and the writers obviously included Kathy as a nod to her future return but it was out of order to involve Ben in her games with Phil, especially using Kathy. It is true that Shirley, or other characters would be criticized no end for behavior such as this. I understand it but I don't think it was right on Sharon's behalf.
It was a very horrible thing of Sharon to do obviously being married to Phil is starting to rub off on her. We've had over a year of her being Phil's doormat which was bad enough but now she's sinking to his level and being just as cruel as he is order to play him at his own game. On one hand i'm glad to see her finally standing up to Phil but on the other hand its a shame to see what she's become - what Phil has made her.
I still think Phil is being far more callous than Sharon in regards to the Ben/Kathy situation. Phil knows Ben's mother is alive and hasn't told him and is seemingly keeping Kathy away, that's far worse. He had the nerve to have a go at Sharon for bringing up Ben's 'dead' mum all the while knowing full well she's actually alive.
I still think Phil is being far more callous than Sharon in regards to the Ben/Kathy situation. Phil knows Ben's mother is alive and hasn't told him and is seemingly keeping Kathy away, that's far worse. He had the nerve to have a go at Sharon for bringing up Ben's 'dead' mum all the while knowing full well she's actually alive.
Originally Posted by LHolmes:
“I thought it was sick and low from Sharon.
Had Shirley done this there would've been a 10 page thread by now.
I found Ben's excited questioning of Gordon a bit odd as well, as it came across as though he had no recollection of Kathy whatsoever when he was 10 when she died. I get that he would be interested to find out more but it came across like he remembers nothing and has to rely on other people for information.”
“I thought it was sick and low from Sharon.
Had Shirley done this there would've been a 10 page thread by now.
I found Ben's excited questioning of Gordon a bit odd as well, as it came across as though he had no recollection of Kathy whatsoever when he was 10 when she died. I get that he would be interested to find out more but it came across like he remembers nothing and has to rely on other people for information.”
Be careful Ell_Ren is a huge Shirley fan.
This forum never seizes to amaze me when it comes to Shirley. She's hated so much on here, some of the comments are so entertaining. Keep it up guys.
Originally Posted by jamesc_715:
“Sharon was certainly bang out of order BUT I can see why she said this. Ben is Phil's son and using "Kathy" was the only way Phil could be "honest". But she shouldn't have done it. But I agree with the other posters, if it was Shirley who said this, then yes she would have been criticised more.
Anyway back on topic, I think it was a deliberate move from the writers. We know that Kathy will make a comeback soon and this will shock Sharon and Ben. Ben looked angry with Phil at the end so he will be more infuriated with Phil when he finds out Phil knew that Kathy has been alive for a while.
Phil needs karma ASAP. He has treated Sharon badly and this really needs to stop. I still think Phil is doing this to protect Sharon but he must be honest with her.”
“Sharon was certainly bang out of order BUT I can see why she said this. Ben is Phil's son and using "Kathy" was the only way Phil could be "honest". But she shouldn't have done it. But I agree with the other posters, if it was Shirley who said this, then yes she would have been criticised more.
Anyway back on topic, I think it was a deliberate move from the writers. We know that Kathy will make a comeback soon and this will shock Sharon and Ben. Ben looked angry with Phil at the end so he will be more infuriated with Phil when he finds out Phil knew that Kathy has been alive for a while.
Phil needs karma ASAP. He has treated Sharon badly and this really needs to stop. I still think Phil is doing this to protect Sharon but he must be honest with her.”
Basically this. Sharon using Ben to get back at Phil meant she lost the moral high ground. She shouldn't have done it, she's better than that.
Phil has obviously discovered who Sharon's real father is and is trying to protect her (and Ben) from discovering the truth about Kathy and Gavin. But he's going about it in completely the wrong way, as the Mitchells frequently do. Act first, think about the consequences later - it's the Mitchell way.
You have to fight fire with fire & Sharon did what she had to do. Phil is Bens Dad yet he is keeping his Mother away from him, & Ben is hardly a saint either, he is deceiving Abi for his own cover.
Originally Posted by Harlowe:
“How?”
“How?”
Ummm...lets have a think..
Originally Posted by Harlowe:
“I'm genuinely interested in how people think this will affect him so badly, a mention of his mother that he never talks about anyway he doesn't know or suspect she alive so it will be forgotten about until it needs to be brought up again,”
“I'm genuinely interested in how people think this will affect him so badly, a mention of his mother that he never talks about anyway
he doesn't know or suspect she alive so it will be forgotten about until it needs to be brought up again,”
Hes started thinking about it. His own mother. There was no need for sharon to use Ben like that. Despicable behaviour.
Originally Posted by Harlowe:
“I' it was done for a reason, Shazza using Kathy was to make feel Phil unintentionally guilty more then anything because he knows she alive and that Gavin is probably Sharon dad, he is keeping it from everyone.”
“I' it was done for a reason, Shazza using Kathy was to make feel Phil unintentionally guilty more then anything because he knows she alive and that Gavin is probably Sharon dad, he is keeping it from everyone.”
For what? More fun and games? Using Kathy was a low blow. She wanted the last word so she could flounce out the Vic. Its all a big game for Shazza. Well, it wasn't for Ben
She crossed the line tonight
Originally Posted by Ell_Ren:
“My sentiments exactly. I can understand why she did it and the writers obviously included Kathy as a nod to her future return but it was out of order to involve Ben in her games with Phil, especially using Kathy. It is true that Shirley, or other characters would be criticized no end for behavior such as this. I understand it but I don't think it was right on Sharon's behalf.”
“My sentiments exactly. I can understand why she did it and the writers obviously included Kathy as a nod to her future return but it was out of order to involve Ben in her games with Phil, especially using Kathy. It is true that Shirley, or other characters would be criticized no end for behavior such as this. I understand it but I don't think it was right on Sharon's behalf.”
True but she has been living with King Cockroach for quite a while so it was inevitable that his scumbag ways are beginning to infect her.
But I much prefer her like this than being a total doormat.
Mind you - I find it far worse that the Philth knows Kathy is alive and just sits there and watches whilst his son gets even more damaged. Perhaps he should strip him and leave him on a motorway - that will make him feel much better.
Also Ben is such a repulsive little git I find it hard to have any sympathy for him at the moment.
That was cold! But it's Ben and Phil so I find it hard to sympathize with them!
As Gordo said 'They're all twisted!' Loved all their scenes tonight.
But it's Ben and Phil so I find it hard to sympathize with them! As Gordo said 'They're all twisted!' Loved all their scenes tonight.
My thought of sharon bringing kathy into the mix tonight was to ruffle feathers between phil and ben as she knows that kathy is alive and knows bringing her into an argument about family is only going divde the family further. Phil doesnt know that sharon knows and i think sharon is playing a very good game of divide and conquer.
Dont forget given her family ie den she could well have found out phils dealings with kathy via other sources and also she is very resourceful herself, its just sharon knowing about kathy hasnt been revealed to the viewers yet.
Dont forget given her family ie den she could well have found out phils dealings with kathy via other sources and also she is very resourceful herself, its just sharon knowing about kathy hasnt been revealed to the viewers yet.
Originally Posted by Smallandcute:
“My thought of sharon bringing kathy into the mix tonight was to ruffle feathers between phil and ben as she knows that kathy is alive and knows bringing her into an argument about family is only going divde the family further. Phil doesnt know that sharon knows and i think sharon is playing a very good game of divide and conquer.
Dont forget given her family ie den she could well have found out phils dealings with kathy via other sources and also she is very resourceful herself, its just sharon knowing about kathy hasnt been revealed to the viewers yet.”
“My thought of sharon bringing kathy into the mix tonight was to ruffle feathers between phil and ben as she knows that kathy is alive and knows bringing her into an argument about family is only going divde the family further. Phil doesnt know that sharon knows and i think sharon is playing a very good game of divide and conquer.
Dont forget given her family ie den she could well have found out phils dealings with kathy via other sources and also she is very resourceful herself, its just sharon knowing about kathy hasnt been revealed to the viewers yet.”
Even if she does know it was still a cruel thing to do to Ben.
Sharon did say to Phil that she hated what she did to Ben but she knew it was the only way to get Phil to confess. I'm really looking forward to see Ben and Kathy's scenes.
I really do not understand why some people are so offended. Ben was fine afterwards and Phil went too far with Sharon. With Kathy, Phil has told Kathy to stay away. I don't think Ben can forgive Phil for this.
It's only a fictional show so there's no need to get so angry
I really do not understand why some people are so offended. Ben was fine afterwards and Phil went too far with Sharon. With Kathy, Phil has told Kathy to stay away. I don't think Ben can forgive Phil for this.
It's only a fictional show so there's no need to get so angry
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