I read the whole thread. Y'all 'nice guys' complaning about 'jerks' are still killing me softly though. Some advice, your whining will keep you forever single. It's such a turn off. Like grow the hell up.

Well, if you did actually read through the thread and what you got out of it was what you commented....

People aren't sitting around whining about it non stop, we're on a discussion forum where topics of conversation come up and people express themselves contributing to discussion. If you look around there's many various topics of conversation that people are discussing.

Not to mention it's not an uncommon thing, the sentiment is seen through various forms of expression such as movies, songs and TV series.

And i'll add further to... mock if you will.

Some people simply aren't built a certain way... some people are shy for a reason... if it be a guy for example, they can't just go up to a girl and "spit game" because it means everything to them, it's not a game it's not a trick... it means the world.. the universe... it's not a case of trying to pick a girl up and run game on her to get her in bed, it exists deep within the soul.

These are the people who write the poems that the other guys use to pick up the girl, the "game" they use is taken from the heart and soul of such a person and used to their benefit.

That girl might not mean anything but a challenge to them or a thrill whatever it might be they're trying to get, they move right on to the next girl but for that guy... for that guy it's everything.

Muscles can decrease if he's not pumping himself up with exercise etc.
As for his face its not that particularly attractive well not to me.
I prefer personality any day to looks.

Wow.. Respect for the deep stuff.

But this is BB and Sam and Marc as newbies want as much airtime as possible.

Depending on your level of entertainment value,one of them is going to the turf.

So what happened ? Did you end up with vagina all over your face ?

Every day, everywhere I go I see 'non-alphas' in relationships. And I've been out with many a shy, soulful, creative guy myself.

It's simply not true that women prefer bastards and that the quieter nicer ones get passed over. If it were, there'd only be a minority of men getting all the girls and KEEPING all the girls, which is patently not happening if you look around, at couples in supermarkets, on TV or walking along the street.

Humans do generally prefer confidence over insecurity though. Cheri is right that self pity or bitterness or being apologetic for ones existence is deeply unattractive. Weakness, for want of a better word, repels most people sexually, while independance is attractive, which is why girls get dumped when they're too clingy or needy. And confidence doesn't need to be in the brash form of a Marc. It doesn't require 'game'.

So the message here is want you want all men to be sexist little shits like Marc then ?

That's not even remotely what she said. I read the message as 'maybe if you stop feeling bitter or self pitying or disparagingly wrong about what women prefer you'll get more girls.' Which is true, BTW.

Sam is begging for him too dump all over her and would deserve all she gets, Marc isn't even interested in her and is only using her as she makes it so easy for him the stupid, fat tart.

I just meant in general.

Personally, I don't care about looks, it was just an observation.

Well that seems uncalled for.

Scarlet let's get e-married <3

I'm free Saturday.

Sorry but because you see it doesn't make it untrue... it's a big world out there and it's very true for many people it's not an expression seen throughout various media for no reason. Is it true in an absolute sense? Of course not, things are rarely absolute... Not to mention there's different levels to it, it will tend to be different in the higher ages for example and for obvious reasons and things are slowly changing with each new generation... when i was growing up nerds and geeks were excluded from all things and looked down upon... and now they're embraced for example, likely because of the internet being assimilated into people's life.

Also, Cheri is "right" about nothing... didn't even understand what was being said and was completely rude and mocking of everything being expressed. It's not even about sex for starters...

Boy quit. I understood what I quoted. It's the same 'Oh shucks I'm a nice guy. Alls I wants is a nice gal. But Chad from the Football team gets alls the gals'.

You should work on your confidence. You'll be surprised with the results. Whining about 'jerks' and 'douches' and blaming the problem on everyone around you or those pesky women loving assholes is deluding yourself. Get a grip, work on your confidence and understand that people can like who they like. You being nice doesn't mean you're entitled to more female attention than someone who is a dick.

That you think you get it. SMH.

How are you going to tell me you get what i'm saying when i'm telling you that you don't. Do you even see the absurdity in it.. that you think you know more about what's being said than the person personally expressing it.

The arrogance in this commentary is astounding, i'll pretty much be done responding to you but one word of advice i will leave you with is humility and an understanding of how small you are within the universe goes a long way, not only listening but hearing what's being said allowing you to see other perspective and have some understanding. Hear it or not, too each their own...

And not whining about being a nice guy will get you a girlfriend.

http://www.reddit.com/r/niceguys/

Here's the thing. Our own experiences and hang ups will always cloud our perception of reality. If Im having an 'ugly day' for example, everywhere I turn I see people who look gorgeous. Because that's what I'm focusing on. And what I'm attracting into my experience. And because my perception of their attractiveness is warped.

I'm not saying that in school, shy guys and geeks have all the luck with the girls. They patently don't. Or that in adulthood, there's a level playing field for guys OR girls who aren't as good looking and confident. But your post sounded so defeated, as if this is the status quo and it is true everywhere. And it's not. I'm very sure that Ive lived a full enough life and that from the many places I've lived, worked and played I've gathered enough 'data' to make an objective observation.

Fair enough if it "sounded" that way but that's not what it was.

So... what i'm trying to say is instead of people jumping in on what something sounds like to them, perhaps try understanding what is actually being said deeper than.

What someone sees isn't always what is... similarly, that even if someone lived what they feel is a full life still wouldn't be a full representation of all things as the human life is minuscule in contrast to the universe.

My life is built around this ideal/concept of understanding how small one is within the greater picture... i don't think my experiences are the absolute truth nor do i believe to understand all things nor do i see things in black/white and absolute.

I was personally expressing things from my experiences and my feelings and so in that particular context/subtext the center is going to be myself and what i've experienced and in my life that is something in which has been a reoccurring theme throughout, that doesn't mean outside of that specific expression it's a constant in everything. Also, there's other factors in my life that might not play into other experiences personal to me. I might be defeated for my own personal reasons and they could be many...

[Not to mention, there was different contexts of discussion ongoing throughout the thread and so there was different aspects of conversation]

I know what's being said about confidence as i expressed that very thing a few pages back and elsewhere in reasons why these types of guys would be attractive it doesn't need to be forced upon me as some revelation that people are attracted to confidence in the sense of like me being bewildered as to "why, why!". I somewhat understand why these guys would be attractive initially, i don't fully understand it as i'm not attracted to those guys myself though, but again that wasn't even really the point of the matter relatively in why be attracted to, as it was more about the causality of it in how it comes back at you in reaction to. A fish might be attracted to the shiny bait on the hook for example but the causality reaction to that is something different entirely.

Furthermore and in addition to, there was so much said that wasn't received [aside from personal]... it's not about sex, it's not about being entitled to someone or something, it's not about being jealous, it's not about crying because you can't get what you want, it's not even at times about self...
[Which... if there was given more of a chance to breathe and exist might have become more clear]

Okay... after reflecting, there is one thing i have to correct in the spirit of clarity and purity of expression or it's going to bug me.

"Not about jealousy"

That's a bit more complicated... i should've clarified something about "well, maybe a little bit" on that part.

What i meant was it wasn't an expression that was about something petty like simply being jealous as the heart of it. Not about that.

There is some jealousy involved though, not like being jealous of the guy as in wanting to be that guy... i wouldn't want to be that guy at all, i'll keep my reasoning to myself because it wouldn't be pleasant as to what i think of said guy but let's just say i've known and been friends with that type of guy and i've seen firsthand how they operate, i've been let into the inner workings of their modus operandi and behind the scenes of their minds and that is not something i find pleasant or wanting to be like at all. It might not be the exact same from each guy to the next but i feel like i've seen enough in being around and/or observing this type of guy at various stages in life to where i know it's not something for me.

....however, jealous of maybe certain qualities or abilities they have [like social confidence for example] and inclusion with certain females. Inclusion being a diverse, complex and extensive connection of levels.

It's not about that but there is a place for it within and it would've bugged me to no end if that wasn't clarified within my expression haha.

That's the only thing though out of the others that really has a place within the heart and soul of.

Why are you rewriting the Bible or some nonsense? I feel like I need to talk to you over the phone and let you know that there are so many women out there who want a sweet caring guy who is a little shy but you have to stop the pity that you've got. You'll be perfect for someone as soon as that goes. But I'm trying to watch funny dog videos on YouTube so let me leave.

Well, i told myself i was done responding to you but i have to clarify a few things. It's just in my nature to do so....

Firstly, some people are very deep. It only takes me a few moments in the grand scheme to express as such or read as such... not trying to be arrogant i'm just saying for me expressing in such length is only a drop in the ocean. If it brings about a complicated, frustrating annoyance there's not much i can do about that.. i can only be true and pure to my expression.

Secondly, i live with severe depression since i was like 12-13... i can't just stop pitying as it's a part of depression and it's a part of me for my entire life. As i mentioned previously, some people are built differently... they can't simply change who they are, they might be shy and lacking in confidence for a reason and it can't be changed at least not for a long time of effort toward that goal and maybe not even then. Also, maybe it's not me who needs to change... if someone is only attracted to the confidence in me and not who i am what does that say. If someone can't see beyond surface to the depth who's to say that it's all on the other person to change. Sure, it's understood and realized that confidence is attractive to a lot of people and it's something that others struggle with and maybe try to gain but it's not always an easy thing for them for whatever reasons, for whomever they are and what journey they've been on, etc.

[I'm not trying to put the depression thing on anyone, i realize people don't know that... but that was something i was trying to say in that there's usually depth behind things... there's relativity, there's journey and perspective behind the surface]

Also, i've already explained more to that in reasoning as to why maybe some people might have more confidence than others in how they're made up. For example, if something doesn't matter much to one guy it's not going to be too difficult or be a big deal for them... some, for instance might have the attitude of you approach 20 girls and the odds are you're going to get at least 1 number. If it's a game, or you don't care that much about it then it's much easier to have that attitude toward it... however, not all people are like that, don't see it like that, don't feel like that and it's not who they are.

Again, there's usually reasons/depth behind why some people can be confident and why others might be shy. Maybe it's not them who needs to change, or maybe people don't have to be the same, or maybe it's not even about them in the end...

Well... i guess i'll just leave it at that then. It's out there in the ether to find it's way to wherever and whenever in spacetime.

I would not waste your time worrying about or having to explain yourself. The reality is Marc behaviour is popular with a vast majority of women and even men. In some contexts this is a depressing idea. On the outside we have this moral guide code of how we should act and treat each other. However given the base motivators is no different to cave men running around with clubs.

We have not progressed as far as we believe to the the case. It is not said out of pity but one in which why do we bother to pretend we are any different now. Marc is really at the base level of the male form and loved for it. I know men are just the same but at least we are honest about it.

If this was on the outside, Sam would be right in Marcs bed. Shes obviously into him, and him into her.