• TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
  • Follow
    • Follow
    • facebook
    • twitter
    • google+
    • instagram
    • youtube
Hearst Corporation
  • TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
Forums
  • Register
  • Login
  • Forums
  • Entertainment
  • Music
Amazing facts about Michael Jackson
<<
<
4 of 5
>>
>
That_Guy
12-06-2015
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“ahh.... now we are getting somewhere?... sort of.

on population..... what is your point? i suspect the record buying public are pretty much the same demograph... therefore the % will be the same, roughly.
ill ask you, as a fan, do you want to base your beliefs on facts, or fantasy?”

You suspect? I'll ask you, as a troll and thread hijacker, do YOU want to base your suspicions on fact?
scrilla
12-06-2015
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“I do wish people would read what ive posted and not what they think i posted, this thread would be a lot shorter....”

Lol. Shocking irony alert.
mushymanrob
13-06-2015
Originally Posted by That_Guy:
“You suspect? I'll ask you, , do YOU want to base your suspicions on fact?”



yes. i want to and do, base all of my opinions on fact, or what is most likely given both sides of any argument.


and what suspicions?... ive said NOTHING about his alleged sexual conduct, i only mentioned the sleepovers he had with unrelated kids... that is an undisputed fact.


Originally Posted by scrilla:
“Lol. Shocking irony alert.”

it is really isnt it.... i think we are both guilty of that, i reckon we have been talking at cross purposes. i was referring to the american chart positions of any artist not mattering to the uk charts of those artists, you seem to be arguing that the american music scene DOES impact on our music scene. two differing points, and i dont disagree with either.
EyeballEyeball
13-06-2015
He was a predatory paedophile. His nutter fans can deny it all they like but we all know the truth.
dearmrman
13-06-2015
Originally Posted by EyeballEyeball:
“He was a predatory paedophile. His nutter fans can deny it all they like but we all know the truth.”

He was found not guilty of the crimes mentioned.

We know he slept with kids though, and some fans think there is nothing wrong with that...I just hope those that do think there was nothing wrong with what he did, don't have kids.
barbeler
13-06-2015
Even if he didn't touch any of them, surely, waking up to see that horrific apparition laying next to them must have left indelible mental scars.
Blondie X
13-06-2015
Originally Posted by dearmrman:
“He was found not guilty of the crimes mentioned.

We know he slept with kids though, and some fans think there is nothing wrong with that...I just hope those that do think there was nothing wrong with what he did, don't have kids.”

It always shocks me that people make excuses for his having kids sleep in his bed. If it was Mike Jackson, plumber rather than rich, famous pop star, not a single person would say it was acceptable. It seems to some that having talent and wealth excuses normal standards of right and wrong.

Originally Posted by barbeler:
“Even if he didn't touch any of them, surely, waking up to see that horrific apparition laying next to them must have left indelible mental scars.”

I shouldn't but
maninthequeue
13-06-2015
Originally Posted by dearmrman:
“He was found not guilty of the crimes mentioned.

We know he slept with kids though, and some fans think there is nothing wrong with that...I just hope those that do think there was nothing wrong with what he did, don't have kids.”

I have no idea whether or not MJ was a predatory paedophile or not.

However, I think MJ fan(atic)s need to remember these two facts.

Unlike when Jimmy Savile was alive in the UK, there was enough evidence to prosecute "The King Of Pop".

Unlike in the UK, in America, the estate of the deceased can sue for libel. Hence if you were sexual abused by MJ, then his estate with the support of Sony Corporation's lawyers who have a vested interest in ensuring they still are able to maintain their huge multi-millions raising revenue stream from the sales/streaming/airplay of his music and videos can still sue you for defamation. This will understandably put potential claimants against coming forward and making allegations claiming MJ abused them, in stark contrast to what has occurred in the Jimmy Savile case in the UK which does not have the same laws.

It also explains why a certain well known award winning "Paedofinder General" had his documentary programme on Michael Jackson mothballed by ITV, because the owners of ITV on the advice of their lawyers were scared by the potential financial ramifications of showing this programme, because of these US laws.
That_Guy
14-06-2015
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“and what suspicions?... ive said NOTHING about his alleged sexual conduct, i only mentioned the sleepovers he had with unrelated kids... that is an undisputed fact.”

I'm talking about you suspecting the record buying public was the same.
mushymanrob
14-06-2015
Originally Posted by That_Guy:
“I'm talking about you suspecting the record buying public was the same.”

fair play.

dont you think its a fair assumption to suspect the record buying public in the uk and usa are roughly similar?

it would be pretty far fetched, actually - very far fetched, to assume the american method of calculating their charts would favour and one artist beyond what their record sales would suggest.

so... not that it matters... i do think the evidence would suggest that % (of the record buying public) wise he was more popular in america.
Sam_Williams1
14-06-2015
Can anyone remember that show on sky not long after he bit the dust? It featured Derek Acorah and a bunch of Michael Jacksons so called biggest fans trying to communicate with him Via Derek and his spirit guide? Bloody hilarious 😂

Anyway great performer he was, but he was definitely not a musician. And he was a complete weirdo. And I'm sorry but his obsession with Children wasn't right no matter how anyone wants to dress it up. The bloke needed help because he clearly had mental health issues.
That_Guy
14-06-2015
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“fair play.

dont you think its a fair assumption to suspect the record buying public in the uk and usa are roughly similar?

it would be pretty far fetched, actually - very far fetched, to assume the american method of calculating their charts would favour and one artist beyond what their record sales would suggest.

so... not that it matters... i do think the evidence would suggest that % (of the record buying public) wise he was more popular in america.”

Assumptions are not facts, so no, I don't think it's fair.
mushymanrob
14-06-2015
Originally Posted by That_Guy:
“Assumptions are not facts, so no, I don't think it's fair.”

so you tell me.... whats the alternative ?

true, assumptions arent facts, but unless you can produce a reasoned point as to why the american buying public are THAT much different to the uk, then we must assume that the difference, if any, is minimal.

besides i dont really get what you are driving at. does it matter if jacko was more popular amongst the record buying public there then he was here?

or if its another attempt at a dig at me 'basing my ideas on facts', ill remind you of what my whole answer was
"
yes. i want to and do, base all of my opinions on fact, or what is most likely given both sides of any argument.
"

note the second bit.
That_Guy
14-06-2015
I just want facts. You say he was less popular here because of the difference in sales? America is big, the UK is not. Now, where are your facts? All I see is assumptions and possibilities, and as usual, another attempt to knock the man. You assume the record buying public was the same in the US as the UK in the 80s. I want a credible source for this, or just admit you're not right. You are a scourge on these Michael Jackson threads, and although a debate is good, you are incredibly arrogant and relentless when it comes to Michael.
unique
14-06-2015
Originally Posted by Sam_Williams1:
“Can anyone remember that show on sky not long after he bit the dust? It featured Derek Acorah and a bunch of Michael Jacksons so called biggest fans trying to communicate with him Via Derek and his spirit guide? Bloody hilarious 😂

Anyway great performer he was, but he was definitely not a musician. And he was a complete weirdo. And I'm sorry but his obsession with Children wasn't right no matter how anyone wants to dress it up. The bloke needed help because he clearly had mental health issues.”

http://i59.tinypic.com/20iz2ir.jpg

coincidentally i came across it earlier today whilst sorting through stuff. the fans on that show must have been complete idiots to fall for that. i think one of them was the guy who was on bbc on the news live the night he died

there was another great show on c4 that i can't find, which was a couple of fans from uk who took a trip to the states last minute notice as they heard a rumour he may turn up to present an award at some awards ceremony. now this was just a rumour and they had no tickets to the awards, and the guy literally worked in pizza hut and lived with his mum but blew a pile of money flying to LA or wherever on the strength of a rumour, with no ticket or anything. needless to say he didn't even turn up to the show, so they took a trip to neverland and of course they never saw him either. it was a full hour long show, complete comedy gold like the late 70s documentary on british heavy metal with folk dancing about at a heavy metal disco. there was this guy who was getting plastic surgery to look like MJ, oblivious to the fact that MJ was getting plastic surgery to not look like MJ. he looked a complete mess

the strangest thing about many of these severe fans is the music isn't as important to them as the personality. i met a bunch of MJ fans after they did some tribute thing after he died, and i happened to have my laptop which had a load of unreleased material and most of them never had it or any bootlegs. in fact some of them went on the rampage in HMV complaining about completely legit but unnoficial releases they had on sale. there was just no reasoning with them, they were completely out their tree. i had never seen anything like it
mushymanrob
14-06-2015
Originally Posted by That_Guy:
“I just want facts. You say he was less popular here because of the difference in sales? America is big, the UK is not. Now, where are your facts? All I see is assumptions and possibilities, and as usual, another attempt to knock the man. You assume the record buying public was the same in the US as the UK in the 80s. I want a credible source for this, or just admit you're not right. You are a scourge on these Michael Jackson threads, and although a debate is good, you are incredibly arrogant and relentless when it comes to Michael.”

You missed the bit about the % of the record buying public.

You want facts? The facts are that jacko had far greater chart success in america then he did here. You fail to understand that chart positions are reletive, so population doesnt matter because any artists chart position is determined by the reletive sales. So it doesnt matter if the record buying public has ten million sales or ten thoysand sales, the chart position is reletive to the % of records sold. Its not about number , but about number in relation to the rivals.

Now how tf is that knocking him?

The scourge? THANKS thats a compliment, because i never will sit back and watch the bullshit being passed off as fact. If you actually read what i posted, youll see that ive always said he was and is a top selling popular artist here in the uk. But he is not the god like individual many fans seem to want to believe he is, as i and others have explained and supported many many times before.

Now if you have a problem with the truth being presented that doesnt support the notion that jacko was a musical god, that really is your problem. No one elses.
That_Guy
14-06-2015
Ok. Can I have the source to your claims? Your first argument was that he sold less in the UK than in the US because of popularity. I think population is a factor, so I want your source based facts. Also, to his fans, he was a musical God. You disagree and behave like a scorned child throwing his toys out of his pram. That's your problem. Do you know how you come across on these threads? I genuinely feel sorry for someone who spends so much time on someone they don't particularly like. It's quite sad, really. None of your incessant objecting to other peoples' views is gonna change their minds.
dodger0703
14-06-2015
this has got to be the most boring but intriguing thread i have come across
mushymanrob
15-06-2015
Originally Posted by That_Guy:
“Ok. Can I have the source to your claims? Your first argument was that he sold less in the UK than in the US because of popularity. I think population is a factor, so I want your source based facts. Also, to his fans, he was a musical God. You disagree and behave like a scorned child throwing his toys out of his pram. That's your problem. Do you know how you come across on these threads? I genuinely feel sorry for someone who spends so much time on someone they don't particularly like. It's quite sad, really. None of your incessant objecting to other peoples' views is gonna change their minds.”

the source?
well if you actually read the thread instead of taking cheap shots at me...youd see that post #3 made by a fan not by me, compares his chart stats for here and america. these stats are easily verified. they show that he had greater chart success then he did here, forget the sales difference between the 2 countries, and the population difference because each countries charts are relative to the population. his greater chart success in america shows he was more popular over there then here where his chart runs, particually his singles, were not so great. it really isnt a difficult concept to understand you know... and so what if he was more popular over there then here? see, i dont know what the problem is with that.

i have no problem with fans worshiping their god. i do object to it being presented as fact and re-writing pop music history in doing so. you can say you think hes great or the best all you want to.... but when hes being held responsible for single handedly 'breaking racial barriers', 'saving the music video' and such like, these claims are false.

now cut the jibes and personal comments, it doesnt make you look good you know., and they break the strict board rules.
That_Guy
15-06-2015
Oh no! It's a pity trolling Michael Jackson threads is not against the 'strict rules' eh? I'll get back to you ok the rest of your post.
mushymanrob
15-06-2015
Originally Posted by That_Guy:
“Oh no! It's a pity trolling Michael Jackson threads is not against the 'strict rules' eh? I'll get back to you ok the rest of your post.”

Discussing the topic isnt trolling, making repeated jibes at other posters is.

And for the life of me, i cannot see what there is to 'get back to me' on the rest of the earlier post.

It really is quite straightforward, jacko had greater chart success in america then he did here which strongly suggests that he was more popular there then here amongst the record buying public.

Now so what? It doesnt detract from his huge success here. That is not puttting a negetive spin on things, its realistic, based on the chart stats.
maninthequeue
15-06-2015
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“the source?
well if you actually read the thread instead of taking cheap shots at me...youd see that post #3 made by a fan not by me, compares his chart stats for here and america. these stats are easily verified. they show that he had greater chart success then he did here, forget the sales difference between the 2 countries, and the population difference because each countries charts are relative to the population. his greater chart success in america shows he was more popular over there then here where his chart runs, particually his singles, were not so great. it really isnt a difficult concept to understand you know... and so what if he was more popular over there then here? see, i dont know what the problem is with that.”

There are two main differences between the UK & the USA which have both historically favoured Michael Jackson's sales in America.

Firstly, the make up of the population of the two nations which the USA having a far more significant African-American population which favours music of black origin.

Secondly, the way the two nations charts were compiled. Until last year when streaming was allowed, the UK charts have always been based on records sold in shops, and more recently digitally. In the USA since the Hot 100 inception there was three components (Record Sales (now mainly digital sales with added streaming elements); Radio Airplay; (and initially) Jukebox plays, superseded from mid 1986 by music video plays; and now by internet youtube, etc plays.

To give a comparison:

The Beatles had 20 USA #1 hit singles; yet topped the sales chart with 26 of their singles, but were dragged down because they only topped the Radio Airplay chart 13 times, and The Supremes had more #1s in the US airplay charts in the 1960s than The Beatles.

Of MJ's USA Billboard Hot #1 singles with weeks at #1 (and #1 on other component charts):

Don't Stop To You Get Enough 1 week (#1 sales 2 weeks / #2 airplay / #1 jukebox 3 weeks)
Rock With You 4 weeks (#1 sales 2 weeks / #1 airplay 5 weeks / #2 jukebox)
The Girl Is Mine #2 (#3 sales / #1 airplay 4 weeks / #3 jukebox)
Billie Jean #1 for 7 weeks (#1 sales 5 weeks / #1 airplay 10 weeks / #1 jukebox 6 weeks)
Beat It #1 for 3 weeks (#2 sales / #1 airplay 6 weeks / #2 jukebox)
I Just Can't Stop Loving You #1 for 1 week (#1 sales 3 weeks / #1 airplay for 1 week / #13 jukebox/video airplay)
Bad #1 for 2 weeks (#2 sales / #1 airplay 2 weeks / #1 jukebox/video 4 weeks)
The Way You Make Me Feel #1 for 1 week (#3 sales / #2 airplay / #1 jukebox/video 6 weeks)
Man In The Mirror #1 for 2 weeks (#1 sales 2 weeks / #1 airplay 3 weeks / #4 jukebox/video)
Dirty Diana #1 for 1 week (#1 sales 1 week / #3 airplay / #1 jukebox/video 4 weeks)
Smooth Criminal #7 (#16 sales / #5 airplay / #1 jukebox/video 3 weeks)
Black Or White #1 for 7 weeks (#1 sales for 4 weeks / #1 airplay 4 weeks / #1 jukebox/video 8 weeks)
Remember The Time #3 (#7 sales / #1 airplay 2 weeks / #1 jukebox/video 4 weeks)
Scream #5 (#3 sales / #8 airplay / #1 jukebox/video 3 weeks)
You Are Not Alone #1 for 1 week (#1 sales 1 week / #3 airplay / #1 jukebox/video 2 weeks)
mushymanrob
15-06-2015
Originally Posted by maninthequeue:
“There are two main differences between the UK & the USA which have both historically favoured Michael Jackson's sales in America.

Firstly, the make up of the population of the two nations which the USA having a far more significant African-American population which favours music of black origin.

Secondly, the way the two nations charts were compiled. Until last year when streaming was allowed, the UK charts have always been based on records sold in shops, and more recently digitally. In the USA since the Hot 100 inception there was three components (Record Sales (now mainly digital sales with added streaming elements); Radio Airplay; (and initially) Jukebox plays, superseded from mid 1986 by music video plays; and now by internet youtube, etc plays.

To give a comparison:h

The Beatles had 20 USA #1 hit singles; yet topped the sales chart with 26 of their singles, but were dragged down because they only topped the Radio Airplay chart 13 times, and The Supremes had more #1s in the US airplay charts in the 1960s than The Beatles.

Of MJ's USA Billboard Hot #1 singles with weeks at #1 (and #1 on other component charts):

Don't Stop To You Get Enough 1 week (#1 sales 2 weeks / #2 airplay / #1 jukebox 3 weeks)
Rock With You 4 weeks (#1 sales 2 weeks / #1 airplay 5 weeks / #2 jukebox)
The Girl Is Mine #2 (#3 sales / #1 airplay 4 weeks / #3 jukebox)
Billie Jean #1 for 7 weeks (#1 sales 5 weeks / #1 airplay 10 weeks / #1 jukebox 6 weeks)
Beat It #1 for 3 weeks (#2 sales / #1 airplay 6 weeks / #2 jukebox)
I Just Can't Stop Loving You #1 for 1 week (#1 sales 3 weeks / #1 airplay for 1 week / #13 jukebox/video airplay)
Bad #1 for 2 weeks (#2 sales / #1 airplay 2 weeks / #1 jukebox/video 4 weeks)
The Way You Make Me Feel #1 for 1 week (#3 sales / #2 airplay / #1 jukebox/video 6 weeks)
Man In The Mirror #1 for 2 weeks (#1 sales 2 weeks / #1 airplay 3 weeks / #4 jukebox/video)
Dirty Diana #1 for 1 week (#1 sales 1 week / #3 airplay / #1 jukebox/video 4 weeks)
Smooth Criminal #7 (#16 sales / #5 airplay / #1 jukebox/video 3 weeks)
Black Or White #1 for 7 weeks (#1 sales for 4 weeks / #1 airplay 4 weeks / #1 jukebox/video 8 weeks)
Remember The Time #3 (#7 sales / #1 airplay 2 weeks / #1 jukebox/video 4 weeks)
Scream #5 (#3 sales / #8 airplay / #1 jukebox/video 3 weeks)
You Are Not Alone #1 for 1 week (#1 sales 1 week / #3 airplay / #1 jukebox/video 2 weeks)”

Ok, ill give you the % of afro Caribbean is higher in the usa so will favour jacko. But xoesnt that confirm my point that regardless of the reasons, he was more popular % wise then here?

But im not sure how the way the charts are compiled there does, and even so does it skew the suggested popularity of the artist? The point 'that guy' doesnt appear to understand is that its the same for all artist who release records in america. And their charts are relative.

By the way, do you think he was more popular in america, here, or about the same?
rfonzo
16-06-2015
On a documentary I watched about him, it stated that his favourite superhero was Batman.
unique
17-06-2015
Originally Posted by rfonzo:
“On a documentary I watched about him, it stated that his favourite superhero was Batman.”

did you know batmans favourite mealtime was dinner?
<<
<
4 of 5
>>
>
VIEW DESKTOP SITE TOP

JOIN US HERE

  • Facebook
  • Twitter

Hearst Corporation

Hearst Corporation

DIGITAL SPY, PART OF THE HEARST UK ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK

© 2015 Hearst Magazines UK is the trading name of the National Magazine Company Ltd, 72 Broadwick Street, London, W1F 9EP. Registered in England 112955. All rights reserved.

  • Terms & Conditions
  • Privacy Policy
  • Cookie Policy
  • Complaints
  • Site Map