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Liverpool Supporters Thread (Part 21)


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Old 10-10-2015, 22:13
Eddie hunter
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Well no thats not actually what you said, its pretty clear what you said.

I don't want to fall out with anyone and I respect this thread but I do think you are being unfair here.

You said

"Please leave it now"

Thats pretty clear.

"more discussion is not worth it"

As is that.

You were attempting to shut down any further comments I wished to make. Thats not right IMO.

Anyway, it doesn't matter.
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Old 11-10-2015, 11:59
ChristmasCake
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Well no thats not actually what you said, its pretty clear what you said.

I don't want to fall out with anyone and I respect this thread but I do think you are being unfair here.

You said

"Please leave it now"

Thats pretty clear.

"more discussion is not worth it"

As is that.

You were attempting to shut down any further comments I wished to make. Thats not right IMO.

Anyway, it doesn't matter.
To be fair he could just have been quoting Will Young.

I think you better leave right now...
Love that song!
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Old 11-10-2015, 17:48
Orchideam
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Happily been seen around Liverpool yesterday!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-34499859
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Old 12-10-2015, 05:21
mickmars
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I'm hoping Jurgen can smell the mince,as walks around the city
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Old 12-10-2015, 07:52
Central cake
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Apparently Rodgers has been rumored with a move to Villa

http://metro.co.uk/2015/10/11/former...eport-5433406/
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Old 12-10-2015, 21:01
Matt35
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That could be a good club for BR. As for Liverpool. My main worry is how long our best players are gonna stay while we are not in champions league. I definitely don't see coutinho staying If we continue to finish outside top four. Hopefully klopp can get us back up there. Certainly not gonna be easy though.
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Old 13-10-2015, 02:31
Sick Bullet
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That could be a good club for BR. As for Liverpool. My main worry is how long our best players are gonna stay while we are not in champions league. I definitely don't see coutinho staying If we continue to finish outside top four. Hopefully klopp can get us back up there. Certainly not gonna be easy though.
Yes I hope so Klopp will attract some big names now in the future too, no doubt players want to play for him.
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Old 13-10-2015, 12:25
alancracker
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That could be a good club for BR. As for Liverpool. My main worry is how long our best players are gonna stay while we are not in champions league. I definitely don't see coutinho staying If we continue to finish outside top four. Hopefully klopp can get us back up there. Certainly not gonna be easy though.
Possibly a good point - time will tell.

I would argue that we do not have that many if any really top players now. Coutnho is prob the best but he is not at the levels of some of our stars of the past and if he did leave (which I do not want obviously) then we would get over it. The worst result of that would be the message it would give out of us being a selling club. I honestly think with Klopp there that it will not happen and that players will want to stay and even to come and join us cos it will be so exciting. I think the key thing is to get the players we have playing to their max and to bring in people who can play in his system. Klopp has never really been a 'sign the mega stars for mega bucks = success' type of manager, he has more been get the players I have there and also others in who will play how I want them to play and success should follow. He clearly believes passionately in his system of playing above anything else - and why not when you see the success he achieved at Dortmund playing that way.

I also hate the aim for top 4 mentality, we aim for top not top four and that is what Klopp wants for sure, although yes we may have to settle for top 4 before we get top I accept that.. We need to be believers not doubters he says - absolutely!! Getting in the top 4 and playing like a bunch of morons in the CL like we did 2 seasons
ago does not make me happy as a LFC fan. I want to see us aim for as high as we can not just top 4 and aim to be competitive in every competition we enter - including the CL - sometimes when I hear people speak it is as if they do not share that aim and they think that in hoping for that I am somehow wrong. Of course I know we will not be favourites for the CL any time soon but if we go in it we have to aim to do well in it not just to play in it to make the numbers up and make some money as we did 2 years ago.
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Old 13-10-2015, 13:26
Orchideam
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Rodgers failed miserably in the CL and most felt he had no idea how to cope with that. Klopp does have good experience there having got Dortmund to the final 2 years ago, so I'm sure he will do his utmost to do the same for us in time. I for one believe he can not only get us into the CL, but will be very clued up on how to play the right team, though I will hold back on when that will happen!
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Old 13-10-2015, 19:23
alancracker
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Do you know what I think is a real problem? - the profile of the transfer committee and the element of secrecy surrounding it. Yes most of us know the names of the people on it but we know precious little about them, most of us don't know what they look like (I don't) and we have certainly never heard them speak. I am not advocating them to do a full blown Sky interview as that may put them on the spot too much - but LFCTV could have an unthreatening sort of chat to them so we could be a bit more informed of who they are, how they think, and how the committee operates - cos at present I have no real idea.

How often do they meet? - formally and/or informally? Do they go to matches or do they mainly just study stats? Is the manager always present? How much is money a factor in their recommendations? What about the age of the targets? Do FSG place restrictions on them? Is the personality of a player given much weight? How do they reliably ascertain info about that? Do others at the club feed names to the committee for them to consider? There are many things which could be asked. Yes I would maybe expect some guarded answers to some of these questions as too much could be given away but at present it is all just conjecture. I would like some solid facts so some kind of information giving exercise would have to be worthwhile. I get the impression Jurgen is all for transparency so this is one place they could start.

I would hate it to be that they only looked at stats - you know lets look at the Opta stats for the Dutch league (or anywhere else in the world for that matter) - oh I see some obscure player at a less rated team has a pass accuracy of 84% last weekend or made x number of key passes (nobody has ever properly defined to me what a key pass is) or ran a kilometre more than anyone else on the pitch or has had 5 assists so far this season ...etc. Sure stats can tell you some things and give you some ideas but to me you have to go out and watch these players - when they pass are they trying to be adventurous or just playing safe? if they are running a lot is it sensible running or headless chicken running? Was it a true assist or just a hoof upfield or in the general direction of the box which the scorer had a lot of work to make it into a goal? They will only really know that by actually being at the match.

So much needs clarification and generally far more transparency in my eyes so that we can be sure the committee is working for the best purposes of the club and there is a degree of unity amongst its members. I am sure it is far better than some give it credit for but unless we are told what goes on there will always be this air of suspicion and criticism about it which exists now.
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Old 13-10-2015, 19:42
alan29
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Its a private company and the transfer committee are a part of the business planning.
Why on earth would they let the world know what is in their mind?
Do Unilever?
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Old 13-10-2015, 19:58
alancracker
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Its a private company and the transfer committee are a part of the business planning.
Why on earth would they let the world know what is in their mind?
Do Unilever?
Nobody has asked them to tell them what was on their mind!! - we are looking at signing x y or z or whatever.

I just think that as a PR exercise an interview or feature of some sort on LFCTV to let us know a bit more about who they are, what they do and some of the principles they employ in doing so would be beneficial - and I still think that - because at the moment they generate quite a lot of negativity and there is lot of misinformation about their activities and that is not helpful for anyone.
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Old 13-10-2015, 20:36
promo-only
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Nobody has asked them to tell them what was on their mind!! - we are looking at signing x y or z or whatever.

I just think that as a PR exercise an interview or feature of some sort on LFCTV to let us know a bit more about who they are, what they do and some of the principles they employ in doing so would be beneficial - and I still think that - because at the moment they generate quite a lot of negativity and there is lot of misinformation about their activities and that is not helpful for anyone.
With Klopp's comments on it at the presser, I wouldn't be too worried about it going forward. He made it pretty clear that the final word on transfers will be his own. He went as far as saying that he doesn't know everything about every player there is so needs help and he will get that help from the committee. Any incomings or outgoings will be on his say so though.

Used in that capacity, it makes great sense as an advisory or discussion board. Sold in the sense of a 'we out vote you, so you're having this player whether you like it or not' is the picture that most of us have though.

Can't see Jurgen Klopp agreeing to join us if he had no real say on transfers.

It's a very exciting time to be a Liverpool supporter at the moment. I can't wide for the ride he's going to take us on. I just hope FSG continue with the same approach they took with locking Klopp down within a week of sacking Rodgers!
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Old 14-10-2015, 10:08
Orchideam
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With Klopp's comments on it at the presser, I wouldn't be too worried about it going forward. He made it pretty clear that the final word on transfers will be his own. He went as far as saying that he doesn't know everything about every player there is so needs help and he will get that help from the committee. Any incomings or outgoings will be on his say so though.

Used in that capacity, it makes great sense as an advisory or discussion board. Sold in the sense of a 'we out vote you, so you're having this player whether you like it or not' is the picture that most of us have though.

Can't see Jurgen Klopp agreeing to join us if he had no real say on transfers.

It's a very exciting time to be a Liverpool supporter at the moment. I can't wide for the ride he's going to take us on. I just hope FSG continue with the same approach they took with locking Klopp down within a week of sacking Rodgers!
I agree with this. If I remember right, Klopp stated that he would have first and last say on who came and went via the committee. I would imagine he'd put to them the names of the positions he wants replacing, they will look for options, but if he don't like, he won't have, And that's that! I don't see him being told who he was getting (as we know happened to Brendan), he will have ensured his position and say within the contract, end of.

Hopefully from today he will have the squad back with him, I am just livid that after the biggest row ever with BT over billing (nasty lot), I ditched them and won't get to see them live. Be looking at it in other ways tho!
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Old 14-10-2015, 10:18
Eddie hunter
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I agree with this. If I remember right, Klopp stated that he would have first and last say on who came and went via the committee. I would imagine he'd put to them the names of the positions he wants replacing, they will look for options, but if he don't like, he won't have, And that's that! I don't see him being told who he was getting (as we know happened to Brendan), he will have ensured his position and say within the contract, end of.
Which is essentially what goes on all around Europe. The manager doesn't do the deals and the profile of the game is such now that many people can have an input into suggesting players. Woodward does all the spadework for Man Utd but if Van Gaal doesn't want the player then the player doesn't come (Pedro). There's nothing wrong with the situation where Woodward says "Do you fancy Pedro, I think we can get him" as long as when Van Gaal says "Nah not keen" that's the end of it. If Pedro arrives signed an sealed the following week THEN there is a problem.

Rodgers getting the Liverpool job was a step up for him so he may have been less willing to say no to player suggestions but Klopp will be absolutely no bother in this situation. I cant see it being an issue at all. Any "transfer committee" can suggest any number of players but if Klopp doesn't want them that I'm sure that will be the end of the matter.

Some coaches don't want that involvement though. Some just say "I need a striker" and a striker arrives and that's it. As long as everyone knows their place then its all good.
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Old 14-10-2015, 19:20
Dandem
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One day, we'll have an international break where none of our English players suffer a serious injury. Joe Gomez out for 9 months with a ruptured ACL.
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Old 14-10-2015, 19:58
ChristmasCake
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One day, we'll have an international break where none of our English players suffer a serious injury. Joe Gomez out for 9 months with a ruptured ACL.
Ouch, really bad news, he was showing so much promise too.
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Old 14-10-2015, 20:14
clarky323
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Gutted for Joe. Absolutely rotten luck, worst possible timing too.

Get well soon Joe, I'm sure you'll come back better and stronger. YNWA
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Old 14-10-2015, 20:17
promo-only
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One day, we'll have an international break where none of our English players suffer a serious injury. Joe Gomez out for 9 months with a ruptured ACL.
Ouch, really bad news, he was showing so much promise too.
Injuries happen but in this case, I imagine he was itching to come into training and make a big impression on the new manager... and now he's sidelined for the rest of the season. What a time to get an injury, just as the mood around the rest of the club has lifted. Poor lad.
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Old 14-10-2015, 21:30
alancracker
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With Klopp's comments on it at the presser, I wouldn't be too worried about it going forward. He made it pretty clear that the final word on transfers will be his own. He went as far as saying that he doesn't know everything about every player there is so needs help and he will get that help from the committee. Any incomings or outgoings will be on his say so though.

Used in that capacity, it makes great sense as an advisory or discussion board. Sold in the sense of a 'we out vote you, so you're having this player whether you like it or not' is the picture that most of us have though.

Can't see Jurgen Klopp agreeing to join us if he had no real say on transfers.

It's a very exciting time to be a Liverpool supporter at the moment. I can't wide for the ride he's going to take us on. I just hope FSG continue with the same approach they took with locking Klopp down within a week of sacking Rodgers!
I don't disagree with your basic point and I am very happy that Klopp is in and he has said that he will have the final say on deals but I still believe that in all organisations good communications are important and I think we as fans are kept too much in the dark about the committee and its activities and that is not good. In my post I raised some questions that I think we need to know more about the policy on and I stand by that. Of course most clubs are much the same so it is not just LFC - e.g. if I was a CFC fan I would hate it that Roman has never spoken publically to us the fans in his 10+ years of ownership - but to me it is indicative of the way fans are regarded these days - Shankly would not have been happy that I do know!!

I am sure all LFC fans will not be unaware that there has been a lot of controversy about this committee within the fan base and really until we know how it operates we as fans cannot really comment too authoritatively about it one way or another - altho of course many fans do. What is clear is that there were problems with it under BR simply by judging the success of the players who came in. Is it going to be really any different under JK? - we will have to wait and see I suppose but I hope it will be..

I just think that it helps us as fans to have belief in the key figures in the club if we know who they are and heard them speak occasionally -, like those 2 ex MCFC employees on the committee and Mike Gordon I think the guys name is who is FSGs main man on Merseyside and it seems makes all the major football decisions at our club. I must say I have never heard him say anything or explain any decision he has made to the fan base - Henry and Werner do all that it seems even tho their football knowledge is rather limited. Do we still have a chief scout?- or has that role been superseded by the committee? - I honestly have no idea.
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Old 14-10-2015, 23:26
taurus_67
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One day, we'll have an international break where none of our English players suffer a serious injury. Joe Gomez out for 9 months with a ruptured ACL.
This is just absolutely awful news. Such a horrible injury for such a young player who was starting to make an impression and move his career on a level. I hope, with youth on his side, he recovers well and makes it back to where he was.

Injuries on international duty are jinxing our club.
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Old 15-10-2015, 06:04
promo-only
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I don't disagree with your basic point and I am very happy that Klopp is in and he has said that he will have the final say on deals but I still believe that in all organisations good communications are important and I think we as fans are kept too much in the dark about the committee and its activities and that is not good. In my post I raised some questions that I think we need to know more about the policy on and I stand by that. Of course most clubs are much the same so it is not just LFC - e.g. if I was a CFC fan I would hate it that Roman has never spoken publically to us the fans in his 10+ years of ownership - but to me it is indicative of the way fans are regarded these days - Shankly would not have been happy that I do know!!

I am sure all LFC fans will not be unaware that there has been a lot of controversy about this committee within the fan base and really until we know how it operates we as fans cannot really comment too authoritatively about it one way or another - altho of course many fans do. What is clear is that there were problems with it under BR simply by judging the success of the players who came in. Is it going to be really any different under JK? - we will have to wait and see I suppose but I hope it will be..

I just think that it helps us as fans to have belief in the key figures in the club if we know who they are and heard them speak occasionally -, like those 2 ex MCFC employees on the committee and Mike Gordon I think the guys name is who is FSGs main man on Merseyside and it seems makes all the major football decisions at our club. I must say I have never heard him say anything or explain any decision he has made to the fan base - Henry and Werner do all that it seems even tho their football knowledge is rather limited. Do we still have a chief scout?- or has that role been superseded by the committee? - I honestly have no idea.
Do we really have any right to know the inner workings though? Should a business that is run for profit be obliged to reveal how they operate and look to bring in new players? Maybe the fact that all(?) other clubs operate the same policy of keeping this information away from the public eye is indicative of us not really needing to know the finer workings of a football club?

Taking the Mike Gordon point - he doesn't speak to the public because that's not his job to do so. Just because he's tasked with the day-to-day running of the club in no way means he should be giving daily, weekly or even monthly press conferences.

With the chief scout thing, do we really need to know? The public knowing everything from the CEO to the cleaners isn't going to have any impact on the outcome of how the team plays or what players are brought in so I wouldn't be too bothered about it.
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Old 15-10-2015, 07:47
ChristmasCake
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Do we really have any right to know the inner workings though? Should a business that is run for profit be obliged to reveal how they operate and look to bring in new players? Maybe the fact that all(?) other clubs operate the same policy of keeping this information away from the public eye is indicative of us not really needing to know the finer workings of a football club?

Taking the Mike Gordon point - he doesn't speak to the public because that's not his job to do so. Just because he's tasked with the day-to-day running of the club in no way means he should be giving daily, weekly or even monthly press conferences.

With the chief scout thing, do we really need to know? The public knowing everything from the CEO to the cleaners isn't going to have any impact on the outcome of how the team plays or what players are brought in so I wouldn't be too bothered about it.
If they were good at what they do, no-one would give a shit.

That being said, we know bout the likes of Graham Carr at Newcastle, Paul Mitchell who was at Southampton, but now at Tottenham, Emenalo at Chelsea and so on.

At Liverpool it's all a bit secretive, which is weird, and they've not been doing a very good job.
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Old 15-10-2015, 08:07
Will_Johnson
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I don't disagree with your basic point and I am very happy that Klopp is in and he has said that he will have the final say on deals but I still believe that in all organisations good communications are important and I think we as fans are kept too much in the dark about the committee and its activities and that is not good. In my post I raised some questions that I think we need to know more about the policy on and I stand by that. Of course most clubs are much the same so it is not just LFC - e.g. if I was a CFC fan I would hate it that Roman has never spoken publically to us the fans in his 10+ years of ownership - but to me it is indicative of the way fans are regarded these days - Shankly would not have been happy that I do know!!

I am sure all LFC fans will not be unaware that there has been a lot of controversy about this committee within the fan base and really until we know how it operates we as fans cannot really comment too authoritatively about it one way or another - altho of course many fans do. What is clear is that there were problems with it under BR simply by judging the success of the players who came in. Is it going to be really any different under JK? - we will have to wait and see I suppose but I hope it will be..

I just think that it helps us as fans to have belief in the key figures in the club if we know who they are and heard them speak occasionally -, like those 2 ex MCFC employees on the committee and Mike Gordon I think the guys name is who is FSGs main man on Merseyside and it seems makes all the major football decisions at our club. I must say I have never heard him say anything or explain any decision he has made to the fan base - Henry and Werner do all that it seems even tho their football knowledge is rather limited. Do we still have a chief scout?- or has that role been superseded by the committee? - I honestly have no idea.
The reality is that when Liverpool had Tom Saunders, Reuben Bennett, Peter Robinson and Sir John Smith, you would never hear a word, not a dickie bird, from them.

Just the same way that Klopp says he will have the first and final say, I think Liverpool fans have to trust to that. Liverpool don't employ blokes from the pub to pursue transfer targets. You don't see their equivalents at other clubs particularly regularly making pronouncements to the media, saying "hello, this is me", even if we do know who some of them are.

Pretty confident that if the press asked Shankly or Dalglish about possible transfers you'd fully support any refusal of theirs to answer, because its LFC's business and no-one elses.
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Old 15-10-2015, 08:12
ChristmasCake
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The reality is that when Liverpool had Tom Saunders, Reuben Bennett, Peter Robinson and Sir John Smith, you would never hear a word, not a dickie bird, from them.

Just the same way that Klopp says he will have the first and final say, I think Liverpool fans have to trust to that. Liverpool don't employ blokes from the pub to pursue transfer targets. You don't see their equivalents at other clubs particularly regularly making pronouncements to the media, saying "hello, this is me", even if we do know who some of them are.

Pretty confident that if the press asked Shankly or Dalglish about possible transfers you'd fully support any refusal of theirs to answer, because its LFC's business and no-one elses.
I could be wrong, but I don't think Alan is asking for disclosure on transfers or anything like that, he just wants some idea about what these guys do.

So for example, Dave Fallows is head of recruitment apparently... Hunter does the analysis, but what do they actually do?
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