Stripping everything else away there are a multitude of socio-economic reasons why the make-up and atmosphere of football stadiums has changed over the past 25 years or so. I think it's a bit of a fool's gold solution to think that safe standing will reverse that. No more than if today you allowed wooden rattles back in the ground it wouldn't make the atmosphere like it was in the 60s, or mandating everyone in 1970 attended a game in a hat to recapture the gentlemanly 50s.

I'd doubt if the simply act of not being able to stand up has been particularly influential at all in the change of atmosphere in football grounds, especially when you can stand up if you want now anyway. You might get told to sit down but I've rarely seen anyone who wanted to stand up not doing so.

If anything is responsible for the change it's been other anti-hooligan measures introduced over the years and a consequence of making football stadiums more family friendly. Sticking a rail in front of a few seats isn't changing that.

I am not an idiot, and I fully respect anything to do with this awful event, I am sorry that you feel that way towards me.



I hope that they always be taken seriously, that is what I hope happens.

I'm little surprised at Klopp's comments. I'm not sure if he meant it as a direct criticism of the Anfield support or a simple admission of how he felt at the end of the game. Either way I don't think it was necessarily the best thing he could have said. This may have been his first defeat but the Anfield faithful have had to endure precisely this sort of capitulation to supposedly inferior opponents far too much over the last few years. Whether it's a deliberate protest, a weary resignation of another defeat or simply trying to beat the rush, people have paid their money to come and watch their team and they can do what they want at the end of the match. I might not agree with people leaving early personally but it's their choice and not my place to judge.

If Klopp wants to modify the supporters' behaviour he's going to have to do it on the pitch by turning our form around. It's a long road but I'm sure he'll find the Liverpool fan base will be with him every step of the way as long as we feel we're heading in the right direction.

Agreed tt would be hard to pre-select the right type of fan it's down to pot luck which type of fan will walk through the gate, but at the moment a lot of fans are being denied access because of ticket prices, so the selection pool is being restricted.

I really don't think they left because we went 1-2 down, I just think it's the done thing by many fans these days. I witness it often, even when we may be holding on to a lead. It annoys me to be honest, you either want to pay your money to support your team or you want to pay your money to dip in and out of the game in between drink/food breaks/loo breaks and leaving early. Plenty seem to be choosing the latter, has a bearing on the atmosphere being nowhere near what it used to be.

Yes I know the team need to give the fans something to cheer/shout about but surely a few weeks into the new managers reign, with clear signs of early improvement, they can see the attempts are there? many a fan would love the chance to go and stay the full match while singing along all game I can guarantee.

See Sterling has said after 18 games his decision to go there has been justified already, top of the league and training with players of the ability of Vincent, Sergio, David, Joe ......he shouldn't be too starstruck he has trained with Luis & Steven in the past.

You must remember that was the first time Klopp has ever experienced anything like that, so it probably came as a shock to him, especially as there was enough time remaining for us to get an equaliser or even win the match.

This is a thread to chat about football, keep it on topic and stop any pointless, personal bickering, please!

Thanks.

Have a word with a certain poster then mods, he is the cause of all this.

Erm...Misawa's post about crowd noise that I was busy replying to seems to have been lost in the cull?

I was trying to answer that one too, I was going to volunteer for the job actually!

(Delia's got nothing on me!)

I know I was reading that post from misawa

I think you will find the discussion was flowing really well, with people like promo only, alancracker and Eddie Hunter making really good points. The thread was on topic and was a good discussion about safe standing at football, until a particular poster made a quite ridiculous post suggesting that once the relatives of Hillsborough victims have gone, the voices of their kids and grandkids will barely be heard.

I cannot quite believe you have failed to understand that post in context and have failed to appreciate why people get so exasperated. It is impossible to make you understand as moderators how difficult this forum is because you don't put any posts in context. You seem to read each one and judge it individually and in my opinion wholly fail to see that it is the same poster, time after time, who causes complete chaos, not so much by breaking the rules, but by making incredibly provocative and argumentative comments. Totally beyond my comprehension and I apologise to Liverpool fans for this comment, especially those I quote above.

I was not able to view the thread from yesterday afternoon when I posted till this evening and it seems there has been a cull' and the mods have 'told us off'. Unfortunate - I must admit that I had been mulling over some of the things said by the poster in question and was contemplating a slightly irritated post along the lines of 'if you really think that then you have no idea of the impact of Hillsborough - accompanied by my usual long essay on why

But it does seem such a post will not be necessary and we can all move on - for the record I think Tony makes good points in his post at the top of this page on the reasons why the make up of crowds have changed as obviously it is not just LFC's that has. Remember Roy Keane and his prawn sandwich remarks. The truth is that we cannot turn back the clock and the demographic make up of football crowds has changed for ever. Some will think that is a good thing, some a bad. Myself? - I can see both good and bad aspects.

Further to the post above - I would like to add that I agree totally with that sentiment.

Just for the record.

I think in this instance Alan, no one would have took issue. However, you are right, best moving on.

According to This is Anfield, Sturridge has missed 9 more games than he's played in the 3 years he's been with us. With his injury record, the way Klopp likes to play could be a problem for him and his fitness.

Both he and Hendo are expected back after the international break. Hopefully he can stay fit for a while. I want to see how Klopp handles both him and Benteke being fit (and match fit).

All of our fixtures in January will be televised

Sat 2nd Jan 12:45 - West Ham (BT Sport)
Wed 13 Jan 20:00 - Arsenal (BT Sport)
Sun 17th Jan 14:05 - Manchester United (Sky Sports)
Sat 23 Jan 12:45 - Norwich (BT Sport)

Cannot believe we have got a Wed night game against the Gooners.

Fricking BT Sport!

haha don't worry because after January, BT can only show us a couple of times again for the rest of the season so in the space of 4 months we will only be on a maximum of 2 more times... I've not been keeping tally but off the top of my head, we've been on BT v Spurs and Chelsea + West Ham & Norwich = 4 and the maximum quota is 5. Arsenal will be our first midweek showing and the maximum quota for those rounds is 2 IIRC so that leaves 2 possible BT matches remaining between February - May.

Thanks promo, I just use other means of watching, and frankly, it's way better without MO droning on and on - even the Arabic is an improvement!

Just annoyed that they do seem to be holding most of the decent matches right now - and I don't mean just ours, I've especially enjoyed watching Chelsea lately, oddly.

Daniel Sturridge was trending on Twitter today, and I have to say I absolutely sh*t myself. Usually when he trends, it's because he suffered another injury setback. Nice to see that he's back in full training though.

It's a case of how long this time for Strurridge.

Well he's back in full-contact training, so I see no reason why he shouldn't play against City.

I'll take whatever we can get from him atm, hoping he is super fit for City, and does the job we need doing. Unless he stays injury free I can see his days being numbered anyway sadly, FSG have done all they can to fix him.

He's not someone you can build a team around for sure.