The failures of Liverpool managers can more often than not be traced down to some horrendous transfer dealings. Maybe its the same for most managers but Im always struck by the amount of money wasted. Obviously losing Suarez is a blow for any team and couple it with Sturridge turning into porridge and you are going to be missing most of your threat but the failure to spend the money on suitable replacements did for Rodgers in the end IMO.
Liverpool Supporters Thread (Part 21)
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Originally Posted by Eddie hunter:
“The failures of Liverpool managers can more often than not be traced down to some horrendous transfer dealings. Maybe its the same for most managers but Im always struck by the amount of money wasted. Obviously losing Suarez is a blow for any team and couple it with Sturridge turning into porridge and you are going to be missing most of your threat but the failure to spend the money on suitable replacements did for Rodgers in the end IMO.”
“The failures of Liverpool managers can more often than not be traced down to some horrendous transfer dealings. Maybe its the same for most managers but Im always struck by the amount of money wasted. Obviously losing Suarez is a blow for any team and couple it with Sturridge turning into porridge and you are going to be missing most of your threat but the failure to spend the money on suitable replacements did for Rodgers in the end IMO.”
The fact that until very recently Liverpool had spent more than us since the Premier League started in 1992, shows quite where their failings lied, they have over the years spent a lot of money on players that they really shouldn't have purchased.
Yes in hindsight is easy to say this, but even at the time there surely was something strange about quite the level of funds that were seemingly being wasted.
All clubs make mistakes when it comes to transfers at one time or another (see ourselves with Bebe and Anderson for example), but it is about trying to get more plus' than minus', and for too Liverpool had much more of the latter than the former, and that is what has I believe held them back from continuously fighting for the very top honours on a regular basis.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“The fact that until very recently Liverpool had spent more than us since the Premier League started in 1992, shows quite where their failings lied, they have over the years spent a lot of money on players that they really shouldn't have purchased.
Yes in hindsight is easy to say this, but even at the time there surely was something strange about quite the level of funds that were seemingly being wasted.
All clubs make mistakes when it comes to transfers at one time or another (see ourselves with Bebe and Anderson for example), but it is about trying to get more plus' than minus', and for too Liverpool had much more of the latter than the former, and that is what has I believe held them back from continuously fighting for the very top honours on a regular basis.”
“The fact that until very recently Liverpool had spent more than us since the Premier League started in 1992, shows quite where their failings lied, they have over the years spent a lot of money on players that they really shouldn't have purchased.
Yes in hindsight is easy to say this, but even at the time there surely was something strange about quite the level of funds that were seemingly being wasted.
All clubs make mistakes when it comes to transfers at one time or another (see ourselves with Bebe and Anderson for example), but it is about trying to get more plus' than minus', and for too Liverpool had much more of the latter than the former, and that is what has I believe held them back from continuously fighting for the very top honours on a regular basis.”
For a long while Liverpool have not been able to attract the likes of Alexis Sanchez, Juan Mata and so on.
We have had to seek out potential rather than purchase ready made stars.
Money hasn't always been spent wisely I agree, but I don't feel it's solely down to the purchasing, especially when United won titles with the likes of John O'Shea in the side.
Kind of undermining my own point there, and I know you'll jump solely on that example, so I'll suffix it with the following, you need that blend of top quality individuals and solid squad players
At times we have had that, under Rafa for example...
With the team we have we should be doing better, we're seeing that under Klopp now..
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“The fact that until very recently Liverpool had spent more than us since the Premier League started in 1992, shows quite where their failings lied, they have over the years spent a lot of money on players that they really shouldn't have purchased.
Yes in hindsight is easy to say this, but even at the time there surely was something strange about quite the level of funds that were seemingly being wasted.
All clubs make mistakes when it comes to transfers at one time or another (see ourselves with Bebe and Anderson for example), but it is about trying to get more plus' than minus', and for too Liverpool had much more of the latter than the former, and that is what has I believe held them back from continuously fighting for the very top honours on a regular basis.”
“The fact that until very recently Liverpool had spent more than us since the Premier League started in 1992, shows quite where their failings lied, they have over the years spent a lot of money on players that they really shouldn't have purchased.
Yes in hindsight is easy to say this, but even at the time there surely was something strange about quite the level of funds that were seemingly being wasted.
All clubs make mistakes when it comes to transfers at one time or another (see ourselves with Bebe and Anderson for example), but it is about trying to get more plus' than minus', and for too Liverpool had much more of the latter than the former, and that is what has I believe held them back from continuously fighting for the very top honours on a regular basis.”
Yes that's what I said.
Originally Posted by ChristmasCake:
“For a long while Liverpool have not been able to attract the likes of Alexis Sanchez, Juan Mata and so on.
We have had to seek out potential rather than purchase ready made stars.
Money hasn't always been spent wisely I agree, but I don't feel it's solely down to the purchasing, especially when United won titles with the likes of John O'Shea in the side.
Kind of undermining my own point there, and I know you'll jump solely on that example, so I'll suffix it with the following, you need that blend of top quality individuals and solid squad players
At times we have had that, under Rafa for example...
With the team we have we should be doing better, we're seeing that under Klopp now..”
“For a long while Liverpool have not been able to attract the likes of Alexis Sanchez, Juan Mata and so on.
We have had to seek out potential rather than purchase ready made stars.
Money hasn't always been spent wisely I agree, but I don't feel it's solely down to the purchasing, especially when United won titles with the likes of John O'Shea in the side.
Kind of undermining my own point there, and I know you'll jump solely on that example, so I'll suffix it with the following, you need that blend of top quality individuals and solid squad players
At times we have had that, under Rafa for example...
With the team we have we should be doing better, we're seeing that under Klopp now..”
It is not all about the star names, it is about getting a squad together with the right balance between the very good ones and the ones slightly below that level.
For example we had Park who was not the greatest player ever, but he was willing to work and work, and work someone, and that allowed for the other players say a Ronaldo to show their abilities.
It is a very hard balancing act, and I would have thought especially after your Champions League win, that you could have secured at least one or two top level players, or players of a very decent calibre, and I think that was a big chance missed.
However under Klopp you now have another chance I think of being able to attract a better calibre of players then for a very long while, and to me at least you have become much more of a threat because of him being in charge.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“It is not all about the star names, it is about getting a squad together with the right balance between the very good ones and the ones slightly below that level.
For example we had Park who was not the greatest player ever, but he was willing to work and work, and work someone, and that allowed for the other players say a Ronaldo to show their abilities.
It is a very hard balancing act, and I would have thought especially after your Champions League win, that you could have secured at least one or two top level players, or players of a very decent calibre, and I think that was a big chance missed.
However under Klopp you now have another chance I think of being able to attract a better calibre of players then for a very long while, and to me at least you have become much more of a threat because of him being in charge.”
“It is not all about the star names, it is about getting a squad together with the right balance between the very good ones and the ones slightly below that level.
For example we had Park who was not the greatest player ever, but he was willing to work and work, and work someone, and that allowed for the other players say a Ronaldo to show their abilities.
It is a very hard balancing act, and I would have thought especially after your Champions League win, that you could have secured at least one or two top level players, or players of a very decent calibre, and I think that was a big chance missed.
However under Klopp you now have another chance I think of being able to attract a better calibre of players then for a very long while, and to me at least you have become much more of a threat because of him being in charge.”
We had Dirk Kuyt!!
As CC pointed out, we did have a world class squad in 2008/09, as well as Rafa did to build that squad, unfortunately his poor man management and poor transfer dealing at the end of that season meant we bought a crooked midfielder and spent £18m on a right back when we had two that had been superb in 08/09. Going from 2nd to 7th in one season was pretty bad considering the players we had assembled.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“It is a very hard balancing act, and I would have thought especially after your Champions League win, that you could have secured at least one or two top level players, or players of a very decent calibre, and I think that was a big chance missed.”
“It is a very hard balancing act, and I would have thought especially after your Champions League win, that you could have secured at least one or two top level players, or players of a very decent calibre, and I think that was a big chance missed.”
I must've dreamt the part where we signed Reina, Torres, Mascherano, Arbeloa and whoever else.
Originally Posted by TheMunch:
“I must've dreamt the part where we signed Reina, Torres, Mascherano, Arbeloa and whoever else.”
“I must've dreamt the part where we signed Reina, Torres, Mascherano, Arbeloa and whoever else.”
You did very well to get them, and they did wonders for you, but you really didn't kick on after getting them, you had the basis there to really push on, and cement yourselves as true year in, year out title challengers, but things didn't quite turn out like that.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“You did very well to get them, and they did wonders for you, but you really didn't kick on after getting them, you had the basis there to really push on, and cement yourselves as true year in, year out title challengers, but things didn't quite turn out like that.”
“You did very well to get them, and they did wonders for you, but you really didn't kick on after getting them, you had the basis there to really push on, and cement yourselves as true year in, year out title challengers, but things didn't quite turn out like that.”
Two words: Roy Hodgson.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“You did very well to get them, and they did wonders for you, but you really didn't kick on after getting them, you had the basis there to really push on, and cement yourselves as true year in, year out title challengers, but things didn't quite turn out like that.”
“You did very well to get them, and they did wonders for you, but you really didn't kick on after getting them, you had the basis there to really push on, and cement yourselves as true year in, year out title challengers, but things didn't quite turn out like that.”
We had a few years in the top four, including another Champions League final. But that's not the point of my post. The fact is after the Champions League win we DID secure some top-level players, which you said we didn't.
Well it's Match day folks, a win tonight could see us playing City / Stoke / Everton in the next round. Under a decent line up and current performance a win is totally doable, should we prevail then the Semi-Final First Leg will take place on week commencing January 4th, prior to that we play away to Sunderland on the 30th December and away to West Ham on the 2nd January, our next fixture won't be until the 13th January, when we play against Arsenal.
Any thoughts about who you would like to see on the pitch tonight ?
Any thoughts about who you would like to see on the pitch tonight ?
Originally Posted by Parthenon:
“Two words: Roy Hodgson.”
“Two words: Roy Hodgson.”
Yeah that was not the best of moves, and a bad managerial appointment can set you back a bit, (as we found out ourselves with Moyes).
Just as the opposite is true, and you are now finding that out with Klopp.
Originally Posted by TheMunch:
“I must've dreamt the part where we signed Reina, Torres, Mascherano, Arbeloa and whoever else.”
“I must've dreamt the part where we signed Reina, Torres, Mascherano, Arbeloa and whoever else.”
I think BD sort of has a point in that we bought far more players than MUFC and many of them were 'duds' - but it ignores the issue of the drawing power of the respective clubs at the time We did have some successes (see above) but there were far too many failures - I wish that we had got some bargain basement buys that turned out to be awesome but with the exception of Sami that largely failed to happen.
I cannot accept this comparison between the clubs tho which puts us as the big spenders and paints MUFC as masters of the market whatever the stats say. MUFC as they were winning trophies could go after the top players with a good chance of getting them - a bit like us in 1988 when we brought Barnes, Beardsley, Houghton and Aldridge to the club in a short space of time. MUFC could routinely spend 30m on a player - we couldn't and even now Carroll is our top buy and that was with the Torres money. MUFC spent around 30m or more many times when the top people came available - Rio, Rooney, Veron, RVN, RVP, Berbatov, Mata, De Maria....etc - and I cannot blame them, they had it these players were good and available so why not go for them.
If you then counter that with why did we did we not go for them? - the painful truth is that given a choice between LFC and MUFC at the time these deals were done they were always going to choose MUFC - so our search always had to be at stars below that level.
Originally Posted by alancracker:
“I think BD sort of has a point in that we bought far more players than MUFC and many of them were 'duds' - but it ignores the issue of the drawing power of the respective clubs at the time We did have some successes (see above) but there were far too many failures - I wish that we had got some bargain basement buys that turned out to be awesome but with the exception of Sami that largely failed to happen.
I cannot accept this comparison between the clubs tho which puts us as the big spenders and paints MUFC as masters of the market whatever the stats say. MUFC as they were winning trophies could go after the top players with a good chance of getting them - a bit like us in 1988 when we brought Barnes, Beardsley, Houghton and Aldridge to the club in a short space of time. MUFC could routinely spend 30m on a player - we couldn't and even now Carroll is our top buy and that was with the Torres money. MUFC spent around 30m or more many times when the top people came available - Rio, Rooney, Veron, RVN, RVP, Berbatov, Mata, De Maria....etc - and I cannot blame them, they had it these players were good and available so why not go for them.
If you then counter that with why did we did we not go for them? - the painful truth is that given a choice between LFC and MUFC at the time these deals were done they were always going to choose MUFC - so our search always had to be at stars below that level.”
“I think BD sort of has a point in that we bought far more players than MUFC and many of them were 'duds' - but it ignores the issue of the drawing power of the respective clubs at the time We did have some successes (see above) but there were far too many failures - I wish that we had got some bargain basement buys that turned out to be awesome but with the exception of Sami that largely failed to happen.
I cannot accept this comparison between the clubs tho which puts us as the big spenders and paints MUFC as masters of the market whatever the stats say. MUFC as they were winning trophies could go after the top players with a good chance of getting them - a bit like us in 1988 when we brought Barnes, Beardsley, Houghton and Aldridge to the club in a short space of time. MUFC could routinely spend 30m on a player - we couldn't and even now Carroll is our top buy and that was with the Torres money. MUFC spent around 30m or more many times when the top people came available - Rio, Rooney, Veron, RVN, RVP, Berbatov, Mata, De Maria....etc - and I cannot blame them, they had it these players were good and available so why not go for them.
If you then counter that with why did we did we not go for them? - the painful truth is that given a choice between LFC and MUFC at the time these deals were done they were always going to choose MUFC - so our search always had to be at stars below that level.”
I don't think that's a fair point really. Its about how the money was spent as a whole and in many instances it was badly spent by Liverpool. If you cant get a £50m player it doesn't mean you buy two £25m players that you don't need or want.
Its not really a massive dig at Liverpool I was just originally pointing out that bad transfer dealings seriously hampered winning the title for the club, all clubs do it to a certain extent but it seemed to happen at Liverpool more than most.
Liverpool have in recent years have started to actually do well in terms of transfer dealings, exploiting the ban at Ajax and getting Suarez, doing your research and getting Coutinho, and at the time getting Sturridge before his injuries kind of de-railed his career, all were good deals.
It is just that the rest, we're not at the same levels, be that because of the committee, or the pull of the manager at the time, it did make for a somewhat disjointed squad, in which I think the very maximum was brought out of them when you finished second.
It will be very interesting to see come the summer when you have a bit more time, quite how much of a bigger pull for players Klopp is compared to your previous managers, I suspect he will be able to attract a higher calibre of players to your club, even if you don't make it to the Champions League, then if you had stuck with your previous manager.
It is just that the rest, we're not at the same levels, be that because of the committee, or the pull of the manager at the time, it did make for a somewhat disjointed squad, in which I think the very maximum was brought out of them when you finished second.
It will be very interesting to see come the summer when you have a bit more time, quite how much of a bigger pull for players Klopp is compared to your previous managers, I suspect he will be able to attract a higher calibre of players to your club, even if you don't make it to the Champions League, then if you had stuck with your previous manager.
Originally Posted by TheMunch:
“Klopp:
"I can't forget this f**king loss against Crystal Palace"
https://vine.co/v/iWO9IAOqwzv”
“Klopp:
"I can't forget this f**king loss against Crystal Palace"
https://vine.co/v/iWO9IAOqwzv”
This ^ man is why we won't have too many problems getting in the right players now, I think what Klopp wants he will get, and I am willing to bet they will be queuing up to play for him. LFC have been pretty dire in the transfer markets, but I have always been fully aware we have Moneyball owners - so potential is their game.I think Klopp may just tweak that a bit and actually bring in more money by cup runs, winning more. It's well known we now have many more German fans than before he arrived, and as a known fan I am finding a lot of people are starting to ask me questions and show a great deal of interest - the future is brightening.
Originally Posted by Eddie hunter:
“I don't think that's a fair point really. Its about how the money was spent as a whole and in many instances it was badly spent by Liverpool. If you cant get a £50m player it doesn't mean you buy two £25m players that you don't need or want.
Its not really a massive dig at Liverpool I was just originally pointing out that bad transfer dealings seriously hampered winning the title for the club, all clubs do it to a certain extent but it seemed to happen at Liverpool more than most.”
“I don't think that's a fair point really. Its about how the money was spent as a whole and in many instances it was badly spent by Liverpool. If you cant get a £50m player it doesn't mean you buy two £25m players that you don't need or want.
Its not really a massive dig at Liverpool I was just originally pointing out that bad transfer dealings seriously hampered winning the title for the club, all clubs do it to a certain extent but it seemed to happen at Liverpool more than most.”
I do not really disagree with you Eddie - I have no problem saying 'absolutely' after the BIB. I also think we made too many signings at times - players brought in were not doing it and so were ditched and several more brought in, only for them to be ditched themselves before too long. More patience was needed and maybe a policy adopted of 3 or 4 per window not 7 or 8
LFC XI vs Southampton: Bogdan, Randall, Skrtel, Lovren, Moreno, Can, Lucas, Allen, Lallana, Origi, Sturridge
I'm struggling to see any creativity in that side. Maybe Lallana will show up tonight and prove me wrong.
I'm struggling to see any creativity in that side. Maybe Lallana will show up tonight and prove me wrong.
Originally Posted by Parthenon:
“LFC XI vs Southampton: Bogdan, Randall, Skrtel, Lovren, Moreno, Can, Lucas, Allen, Lallana, Origi, Sturridge
I'm struggling to see any creativity in that side. Maybe Lallana will show up tonight and prove me wrong.”
“LFC XI vs Southampton: Bogdan, Randall, Skrtel, Lovren, Moreno, Can, Lucas, Allen, Lallana, Origi, Sturridge
I'm struggling to see any creativity in that side. Maybe Lallana will show up tonight and prove me wrong.”
Subs - Mignolet, Smith, Milner, Benteke, Firmino, Henderson, Ibe
Originally Posted by darkjedimaster:
“Subs - Mignolet, Smith, Milner, Benteke, Firmino, Henderson, Ibe”
“Subs - Mignolet, Smith, Milner, Benteke, Firmino, Henderson, Ibe”
Cheers. I guess it's almost certain that Firmino and/or Benteke will come on as there's no way Sturridge will play 90 (or 120) minutes.
Originally Posted by Parthenon:
“Cheers. I guess it's almost certain that Firmino and/or Benteke will come on as there's no way Sturridge will play 90 (or 120) minutes.”
“Cheers. I guess it's almost certain that Firmino and/or Benteke will come on as there's no way Sturridge will play 90 (or 120) minutes.”
No worries
, and yes agreed, ideally it should be enough for a win today and have fit players for the weekend.
Originally Posted by Parthenon:
“LFC XI vs Southampton: Bogdan, Randall, Skrtel, Lovren, Moreno, Can, Lucas, Allen, Lallana, Origi, Sturridge
I'm struggling to see any creativity in that side. Maybe Lallana will show up tonight and prove me wrong.”
“LFC XI vs Southampton: Bogdan, Randall, Skrtel, Lovren, Moreno, Can, Lucas, Allen, Lallana, Origi, Sturridge
I'm struggling to see any creativity in that side. Maybe Lallana will show up tonight and prove me wrong.”
Originally Posted by darkjedimaster:
“Subs - Mignolet, Smith, Milner, Benteke, Firmino, Henderson, Ibe”
“Subs - Mignolet, Smith, Milner, Benteke, Firmino, Henderson, Ibe”
Disappointed not to see my man Tex in the 18 at all - OK to have started him may not have been a good choice but I would have liked to seen him get some game time tonight. With the EL farce due to BRs flawed squad selection the sad truth is that he is unlikely to ever play. Maybe over Christmas he will get some time on the pitch as we will have so many matches. The end result tho of him not getting game time is him going which would be a real shame as he showed on loan at Brighton (player of the year) and V Bournemouth for us that he is a talented lad.
Anyway never mind we support the guys on the pitch and they are good enough to win it that's for sure
A lot of pressure on Lallana then for various reasons - he's our only truly creative midfielder in the starting XI and he'll get the bird from the Saints' fans.
Let's hope Allen or Can vebture forward occasionally too. Mayvbe Klopp is planning to play a more direct counter-attacking style tonight and ask Origi and Sturridge to find space behind their back four with their pace.
Intriguing. And some great Plan B options on the bench.
Let's hope Allen or Can vebture forward occasionally too. Mayvbe Klopp is planning to play a more direct counter-attacking style tonight and ask Origi and Sturridge to find space behind their back four with their pace.
Intriguing. And some great Plan B options on the bench.
Originally Posted by TheSloth:
“A lot of pressure on Lallana then for various reasons - he's our only truly creative midfielder in the starting XI and he'll get the bird from the Saints' fans.
Let's hope Allen or Can vebture forward occasionally too. Mayvbe Klopp is planning to play a more direct counter-attacking style tonight and ask Origi and Sturridge to find space behind their back four with their pace.
Intriguing. And some great Plan B options on the bench.”
“A lot of pressure on Lallana then for various reasons - he's our only truly creative midfielder in the starting XI and he'll get the bird from the Saints' fans.
Let's hope Allen or Can vebture forward occasionally too. Mayvbe Klopp is planning to play a more direct counter-attacking style tonight and ask Origi and Sturridge to find space behind their back four with their pace.
Intriguing. And some great Plan B options on the bench.”
Must admit that I read the team, then read it again as it didn't seem right to me. However, I am learning that Klopp does know best (by all accounts today he learnt a lot by the CP loss!) so I trust him .
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