DS Forums

 
 

Liverpool Supporters Thread (Part 21)


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-12-2015, 22:48
alan29
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 20,480
God, this mutual handbagging is tiresome.
alan29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 04-12-2015, 01:49
Parthenon
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,777
A six point gap with 14 ganes gone and no more travels to our traditional rivals suggests you may be exercising cautious pessimism rather than our chances being truly unrealistic.

I can see us picking a lot of points away from home ftom hereon in so if we can find a fotnula at hone against packed defences, we've got a fighting chance. Let's enjoy the ride and see where it takes us I guess.
I'd love to dream but it's a little too early for me. I don't think we have a squad capable of winning the league. Klopp is already improving players who didn't look like they'd cut it for much longer under Rodgers but I can't see it being enough for a league title.

Perhaps this is the season to do it though, with no team looking like the real deal so far... Like you say, it's all about sorting out the home form now, especially with all the big hitters to come to Anfield.
Parthenon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 02:30
ChristmasCake
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: London
Posts: 20,217
I'd love to dream but it's a little too early for me. I don't think we have a squad capable of winning the league. Klopp is already improving players who didn't look like they'd cut it for much longer under Rodgers but I can't see it being enough for a league title.

Perhaps this is the season to do it though, with no team looking like the real deal so far... Like you say, it's all about sorting out the home form now, especially with all the big hitters to come to Anfield.
I prefer the focus on winning the next game philosophy. We can look at the league table at the end of the season.

As part of trying to figure out how to resolve our form at home, I think giving Benteke a game or two would help, as he could offer another dimension to our play when up against teams who set up defensively...

He doesn't necessarily have to rely on space, and he certainly knows where the back of the net is..and maybe put Sturridge/Origi alongside him, and sacrifice one of Firmino, Coutinho or Lallana.
ChristmasCake is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 08:14
Eddie hunter
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,156
Liverpool are nowhere near good enough to win the league - at least that should be the case. No team that have been poor enough to sack their manager should really be in a position of being only 6 points off the top.

The truth is there is no great team in England this year. City and Arsenal are certainly flawed. Leicester shouldn't stay the course and I have absolutely no idea how the hell my team are only a point away from leading.

If Liverpool were to go on anything resembling a decent run over Christmas then they will be round the top at New Year because I'll be stunned if the leaders don't continue to drop points all over the place.

I don't think you will ultimately win it but in all honesty why not? Signing or two in Jan and morale at an all time high and its certainly far from impossible this year.
Eddie hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 08:55
Draca_Noir
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 767
Liverpool are nowhere near good enough to win the league - at least that should be the case. No team that have been poor enough to sack their manager should really be in a position of being only 6 points off the top.

The truth is there is no great team in England this year. City and Arsenal are certainly flawed. Leicester shouldn't stay the course and I have absolutely no idea how the hell my team are only a point away from leading.

If Liverpool were to go on anything resembling a decent run over Christmas then they will be round the top at New Year because I'll be stunned if the leaders don't continue to drop points all over the place.

I don't think you will ultimately win it but in all honesty why not? Signing or two in Jan and morale at an all time high and its certainly far from impossible this year.
During our 13/14 campaign, early on we didn't look like challengers, however at the start of the new year and with a fully fit squad, we went on that amazing run. We had better players then, but we've got a better manager now and as you say, sign a couple of decent players in January and who's to say we can't go on a run similar to 2014.
Draca_Noir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 09:52
misawa97
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 11,516
Liverpool are nowhere near good enough to win the league - at least that should be the case. No team that have been poor enough to sack their manager should really be in a position of being only 6 points off the top.

The truth is there is no great team in England this year. City and Arsenal are certainly flawed. Leicester shouldn't stay the course and I have absolutely no idea how the hell my team are only a point away from leading.

If Liverpool were to go on anything resembling a decent run over Christmas then they will be round the top at New Year because I'll be stunned if the leaders don't continue to drop points all over the place.

I don't think you will ultimately win it but in all honesty why not? Signing or two in Jan and morale at an all time high and its certainly far from impossible this year.
No doubt the quality at the top end of the PL has been getting worse year on year.
misawa97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 10:00
Will_Johnson
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 780
In fairness, a lot of people elsewhere dismissed Ferguson's title wins based on the poor standard of the opposition. Those who have dismissed that proposition, and I include myself in that bracket, can't really start pursuing the argument that a different winner of the title means the standard elsewhere is poor.

For a team to push on and win the title they will still have to have earned it. For Liverpool particularly to win it will require the sort of performances they have produced at Chelsea, City and Southampton, and if they are turning that in week in week out, a big ask, there is no doubt they would be worthy champions regardless of the standard of the opposition.
Will_Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 10:19
Eddie hunter
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,156
No doubt the quality at the top end of the PL has been getting worse year on year.
Im not sure its exactly the quality itself but certainly the consistency. Back in happier times when Man Utd were a fixture at the top ( ) you could write off many matches because you knew they would dig out the 3 points. Those "tricky" away games were always 1-0 wins. Now though, you see the likes of City and Arsenal dropping points in these games all the time (and United too of course). I think when the teams at the top are flying they still look brilliant but they don't seem to have the same resilience of past years.

Statistically I may well be talking a lot of rubbish to be honest but I definitely have the perception that the top teams are more fallible.
Eddie hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 10:29
misawa97
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 11,516
Im not sure its exactly the quality itself but certainly the consistency. Back in happier times when Man Utd were a fixture at the top ( ) you could write off many matches because you knew they would dig out the 3 points. Those "tricky" away games were always 1-0 wins. Now though, you see the likes of City and Arsenal dropping points in these games all the time (and United too of course). I think when the teams at the top are flying they still look brilliant but they don't seem to have the same resilience of past years.

Statistically I may well be talking a lot of rubbish to be honest but I definitely have the perception that the top teams are more fallible.
The performance of the top sides in the CL is evidence in itself.
misawa97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 10:43
Eddie hunter
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,156
The performance of the top sides in the CL is evidence in itself.
That's essentially a cup competition though. Outside of winning it a hell of a lot comes down to how favourable a draw you get. I've never really seen progressing as much of benchmark unless you are lifting the trophy at the end. Essentially you could be the third best team in Europe but if you draw Barca you are screwed!
Eddie hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 10:51
Nova21
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,397
Im not sure its exactly the quality itself but certainly the consistency. Back in happier times when Man Utd were a fixture at the top ( ) you could write off many matches because you knew they would dig out the 3 points. Those "tricky" away games were always 1-0 wins. Now though, you see the likes of City and Arsenal dropping points in these games all the time (and United too of course). I think when the teams at the top are flying they still look brilliant but they don't seem to have the same resilience of past years.

Statistically I may well be talking a lot of rubbish to be honest but I definitely have the perception that the top teams are more fallible.
Definitely not perception in terms of the top teams being more fallible.
Nova21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 11:01
batdude_uk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
The league is very open this year, and it is very hard to predict just who will win it, if Leicester can be up there, then if you guys carry on with your amazing good run, you could be in with a shout, which would be a remarkable turnaround from your previous managers time in charge, when you looked like you would struggle to finish in the Europa League places.

No team has proven to be the dominant side so far, and each side has got its weaknesses, (including ourselves) and so I can see you, along with Spurs, pushing the other big teams all of the way.
batdude_uk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 11:24
misawa97
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 11,516
That's essentially a cup competition though. Outside of winning it a hell of a lot comes down to how favourable a draw you get. I've never really seen progressing as much of benchmark unless you are lifting the trophy at the end. Essentially you could be the third best team in Europe but if you draw Barca you are screwed!
True but you would of expected Utd for instance to of got through there group before the last game.

Arsenal again have struggled in a group which shouldnt of been so difficult.

City while going through lost both games against the other strong side in the group.

I wouldnt back any of the English sides to go far this season regardless of who they possibly get in the KO stages.
misawa97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 11:35
batdude_uk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
True but you would of expected Utd for instance to of got through there group before the last game.

Arsenal again have struggled in a group which shouldnt of been so difficult.

City while going through lost both games against the other strong side in the group.

I wouldnt back any of the English sides to go far this season regardless of who they possibly get in the KO stages.
I agree with you there, all of the English sides in the Champions League this season do look way off of the pace to win or even go far in the tournament.
The best sides (Barca, and Bayern) look lightyears ahead of our teams.

However, the English sides currently in the Europa League, do look a lot more likely to go further in that competition I would say.
batdude_uk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 11:35
Eddie hunter
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,156
True but you would of expected Utd for instance to of got through there group before the last game.

Arsenal again have struggled in a group which shouldnt of been so difficult.

City while going through lost both games against the other strong side in the group.

I wouldnt back any of the English sides to go far this season regardless of who they possibly get in the KO stages.
Equally though Chelsea and Liverpool have actually won it when they were far far far away from being the best team in the Country far less the whole of Europe. That's not belittling the achievement - far from it, but I just don't think its a benchmark of the league strength just as I don't particularly judge Spain as being the mutts nuts that everyone says it is just because Barca have been amazing.
Eddie hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 11:41
batdude_uk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
Equally though Chelsea and Liverpool have actually won it when they were far far far away from being the best team in the Country far less the whole of Europe. That's not belittling the achievement - far from it, but I just don't think its a benchmark of the league strength just as I don't particularly judge Spain as being the mutts nuts that everyone says it is just because Barca have been amazing.
A cup competition is hard to judge which team is the best, as obviously the teams do not all play each other, which makes a league far more representative of the best team in each country.

However that will still not stop me wanting to see Barcelona and Bayern play each other!
batdude_uk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 14:03
LONERIDER37
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 674
To answer your first question, you don't have a clue who I support, and its also none of your business.

To answer your second question, he is upping his post count all the time. I've seen this poster be all sweetness and light in one thread and actually, even in this thread, post crass comments over Hillsborough. Will it be held against him forever, yes it will.

Other fans are exasperated too, look at Sloth, a very regular poster in this thread, in particular.

If you'd sooner indulge stuff like that than my posts, then fine.
I'd guess at Everton but I never said it was my business, just that I know you are not an LFC supporter.
You follow him around as much as he follows others, see below 2 uncalled for posts on Gary Nev thread for example. Simply no need for it.


If I am also allowed an opinion based on absolutely no evidence, I prefer wooden advent calendars to cardboard ones provided both contain chocolate.

"Woukd"

Nice to know those Spanish kids he's been teaching have learned English words that even the English themselves haven't heard of. Must be that South Cheshire dialect.

God, this mutual handbagging is tiresome.
Sorry I'll leave it now.
LONERIDER37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 14:15
Nova21
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,397
Equally though Chelsea and Liverpool have actually won it when they were far far far away from being the best team in the Country far less the whole of Europe. That's not belittling the achievement - far from it, but I just don't think its a benchmark of the league strength just as I don't particularly judge Spain as being the mutts nuts that everyone says it is just because Barca have been amazing.
Its as good a benchmark as we have though. If you look at semi finalists, then its fair to say that if one country has two or three sides there, then they are the strongest league in europe that season...
Nova21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 14:25
Eddie hunter
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,156
Its as good a benchmark as we have though. If you look at semi finalists, then its fair to say that if one country has two or three sides there, then they are the strongest league in europe that season...
I really don't think it is in all honesty and i'm not spoiling for an argument. You have to look further than that in my view.

If United somehow get through to the knockout stage this year and avoid the biggest clubs would anyone really suggest they were among the elite in Europe this season? I really do think it comes down to how the draw works for you. Equally if two English teams drew Bayern and Barca they could both go out whilst still being top sides.
Eddie hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 14:40
Nova21
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,397
I really don't think it is in all honesty and i'm not spoiling for an argument. You have to look further than that in my view.

If United somehow get through to the knockout stage this year and avoid the biggest clubs would anyone really suggest they were among the elite in Europe this season? I really do think it comes down to how the draw works for you. Equally if two English teams drew Bayern and Barca they could both go out whilst still being top sides.
Yes, but my point was 2 or 3 teams to the semis. Of course its still people's opinions on the strongest league and if Real and Barca fail to make it to the semis this season then people won't be saying that they Spanish league isnt a top league in europe, but one country dominating the latter stages of the competition gives us a good idea... not spoiling for an argument here either!
Nova21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 14:57
shaneomax
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,061
I'd said on a few occasions the squad BR built was considerably better than the one he inherited in terms of overall depth and consistency of quality.

His style of play was also an improvement. Where he fell short was when the downer hit after the highs of 2013/2014, he wasn't able to lift things again - that may indeed have had something to do with his management style - the style was his primary focus and the players seemed to be secondary.

The loss of Sturridge for most of last season and having Valotelli foisted on him just added to the atmosphere of negativity.

Klopp has evolved the style further but has done that with the players rather than imposed it on them it seems. His charisma and hands-on approach is helping this process. BR didn't appear to tolerate failure whereas Klopp inspires and allows players to improve.
Have to disagree with you VERY strongly, regardless of how many goals we scored in the 13/14 season, no way should we have finished anywhere near second. Bruce Grobelaar said it himself. No team that concedes that many goals should finish top 4. Our defensive frailties were covered up by a simply mesmerizing Luis Suarez. Take out Suarez and the stats are there for all to see. BR never fixed our defence in 3 years. Never liked BR least of all when he copied Sir Alex's envelopes thing. Klopp is light years ahead of BR.
shaneomax is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 15:08
misawa97
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 11,516
Have to disagree with you VERY strongly, regardless of how many goals we scored in the 13/14 season, no way should we have finished anywhere near second. Bruce Grobelaar said it himself. No team that concedes that many goals should finish top 4. Our defensive frailties were covered up by a simply mesmerizing Luis Suarez. Take out Suarez and the stats are there for all to see. BR never fixed our defence in 3 years. Never liked BR least of all when he copied Sir Alex's envelopes thing. Klopp is light years ahead of BR.
Not buying that at all. Any side which scores over 100 goals will generally win the league regardless of the goals conceded column. There was only one side who scored more and guess what they won the title.

Look at the PL league winners historically and more often than not it will be the side that scores the most goals that wins the title.

Now back to 13/14 how many of those goals conceded actually made the difference in terms of results.

Liverpool conceded 50 and Man City conceded 37 which is quite the difference. However in terms of games won Man City won 27, Liverpool 26. Man City drew 5, Liverpool drew 6. Man City Lost 6, Liverpool lost 6.

I think it would hard to argue that the 12 goals difference in the goals conceded column was the difference between Liverpool finish 2 points behind City. If the defence cost Liverpool the title and Man City's defence won them the title why such the tiny difference in games won, lost and drawn?

Bar a Gerrard slip nobody would of been talking about the GA column as it was irrelevant as more often than not the team was winning games.
misawa97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 16:37
shaneomax
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,061
Not buying that at all. Any side which scores over 100 goals will generally win the league regardless of the goals conceded column. There was only one side who scored more and guess what they won the title.

Look at the PL league winners historically and more often than not it will be the side that scores the most goals that wins the title.

Now back to 13/14 how many of those goals conceded actually made the difference in terms of results.

Liverpool conceded 50 and Man City conceded 37 which is quite the difference. However in terms of games won Man City won 27, Liverpool 26. Man City drew 5, Liverpool drew 6. Man City Lost 6, Liverpool lost 6.

I think it would hard to argue that the 12 goals difference in the goals conceded column was the difference between Liverpool finish 2 points behind City. If the defence cost Liverpool the title and Man City's defence won them the title why such the tiny difference in games won, lost and drawn?

Bar a Gerrard slip nobody would of been talking about the GA column as it was irrelevant as more often than not the team was winning games.
12 Goals is a LOT of goals. And you ask which of those goals actually made the difference in terms of results? A lot of them and BIG ones at that, you could go to the Crystal palace 3-3 game when we had it wrapped up and won...whats does BR do? He replaces Sturridge with coutinho at 78 mins.. when he has Moses and Agger on the bench who could have tightened it up... BIG MISTAKE... You mention the "Gerrard slip" we actually lost that game 2-0 with ANOTHER Chelsea goal at 90 minutes.. There was 6 minutes of xtra time to be played.. Klopp will tell you how many goals could have been scored in that time.. and did we score them ? No why? Because Chelsea had a manager who knew a good team must be built upon a strong defense. We did overrun many teams in that season BUT the bottom line is when it really mattered, the team did not deliver, because of our defensive frailties.
shaneomax is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 16:51
alancracker
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,933
I post in some exclusively LFC sites on the net - I'll be honest when I post there I say things I prob would not say on DS - I am not a RAWK type LFC fan (altho there are good reds there too) but on these LFC pages I like some maybe extreme anti MUFC stuff and use slightly OTT language about people in the game I do not like etc. I do not see anything wrong with that, it is mainly banter, non LFC supporters do not see it and as far as I am aware it has offended nobody.

However posting on DS is different for me as it is a place where fans of all teams can read your views and respond. I value it very much as it can teach me what sensible fans from other clubs think - and I'd like to think the same is true the other way round in that by reading me and other LFC fans on here they too can learn about our club and fans. In view of all this I just think it is a good idea to temper your language when you post on this forum - anywhere on it!! Do not for instance put inflammatory things on your own clubs thread which you would not want those who do not support your club to read - and certainly only post on the threads of other clubs which show respect. If I can name names here - and it will be the only time I do in this post - BD was very unwise when he commented on how LFC fans should respond to Hillsborough - a MUFC fan telling us how we should feel about it!! Heck it is such a sensitive thing that even I hesitate to say much on it - like my opinion which says safe standing should be considered is one I would not express in certain places cos I know it could offend and I do not want to do that.

In the last page or two there has been far too much navel gazing and digs between fans or almost ganging up on unpopular posters - this is not what the football forum should be about. I like that well known phrase if you have not got anything good to say then it is usually best to say nothing - some of us would do well to take that on board. If you do not like a post try to just ignore it in other words. Maybe it is stating the obvious but it should be about discussing football!!: p - lets try to keep to that from now on
alancracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 17:09
alancracker
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,933
So going onto football!! - and 2 topics from recent pages.

The CL winners? - in the current format for me it is like the PL in that the best team usually wins it. A few years ago the PL often got 2 or 3 clubs through to the semis but not any more. Reason imo? - cos the PL is not as good as it was alongside the fact that some clubs outside of the PL have improved - Barca, RM, Bayern and PSG are all a lot stronger now than they were 6 or 7 years ago. In 2009 LFC beat RM twice - including a 4-0 trouncing at Anfield and in 2007 we won at Barca which was the second time we had done that. These days I do not think we could win at either venue altho even so I do not think we should give up before the match starts as BR did a year ago away at RM. These teams simply have the best players so they are likely to win the CL - name me the last time a poor team won the CL. If I am honest the most obvious example is us in 2005 but also other PL winners like MUFC and CFC have been more in the category of being set up to be hard to beat rather than being that outstanding from a flair point of view.

LFC and the PL this season? - yes we could win it but it is unlikely. We are just 6 points off the top and have played all the top teams away with a relatively simple run of fixtures on paper coming up (but the games are not played on paper!!). So to say that we have no chance is not the right attitude as it shows no belief in the team. But equally to start shouting the odds and say we are going to win it is very foolish too - which some posters made the mistake of doing 2 years ago. Despite our outstanding recent results it still does not feel as if we are that great quality wise, to me there is much room for improvement and in the transfer windows I am sure JK will address that. However having JK gives me that hope that anything is possible as he is such an inspiration and could deliver the PL even if we do not have the best team. But lets not get carried away - take each match as it comes and try to win it, then see where we end up at the end of the season
alancracker is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:25.