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Liverpool Supporters Thread (Part 21)
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TheMunch
30-12-2015
Originally Posted by Parthenon:
“Not going to complain about Benteke for the late miss this time. Mannone had a good game tonight so it wasn't an easy chance like against Leicester. He got the all-important winner and took that well so kudos to him.”

Also it was a one-on-one situation, not everyone likes them. Benteke might be more of an instinctive finisher, where he might suffer if he has to think about it, if he gets a bit of time on the ball.
TheMunch
30-12-2015
Simon Mignolet has kept 16 clean sheets in the Premier League in 2015, more than any other 'keeper in the Premier League.
misawa97
30-12-2015
Ibe should of wrapped it up as well. Benteke to me isn't a natural finisher but he will score goals.
Parthenon
30-12-2015
Originally Posted by TheMunch:
“Also it was a one-on-one situation, not everyone likes them. Benteke might be more of an instinctive finisher, where he might suffer if he has to think about it, if he gets a bit of time on the ball.”

Yeah, he does seem to be a better finisher when he's striking the ball first time or doing something instinctive. If I were Klopp I'd just get him practising lifting the ball more in 1 on 1s on the training field. I think if he lifts the two sitters he's had then he has a much higher chance of putting them away. I'm hardly a goalscoring expert but I think that's what most top-class finishers would do in those situations.

Other strikers may have opted to go around Mannone but given it was the 90th minute, he was probably knackered, and isn't the fastest player to begin with, I can see why he didn't try that.
TheMunch
30-12-2015
Benteke's flaws are only noticeable because we're expecting too much of him, because we're relying on him to get us the goals since nobody else is chipping in with them. If Lallana, Coutinho, Firmino, etc. scored a few then Benteke scoring every other game would be fine. But they're not so we're wanting more than he can give. People might say because of his what we paid for him he should be doing more but I can't agree with that because he didn't ask for it, and he didn't receive it. The price tag adds unnecessary pressure on players.
Parthenon
30-12-2015
Originally Posted by TheMunch:
“Simon Mignolet has kept 16 clean sheets in the Premier League in 2015, more than any other 'keeper in the Premier League.”

If he could keep his kicks on the pitch he'd be quite a keeper.
owen10
30-12-2015
How come we had four days between Boxing Day and tonight and others only had two days in between their matches
TheMunch
30-12-2015
Originally Posted by Parthenon:
“If he could keep his kicks on the pitch he'd be quite a keeper.”

If he could kick a ball he'd be a good keeper. It's odd for a goalkeeper to be so poor with using his feet. I mean, goalkeepers aren't necessarily the best on the ball, unless you're a monster like Neuer or Pepe Reina, but you ARE a footballer, you should be able to pass a ball!


In other news, I got 105 points on Ultimate. I wanted to reach 100, and I got it. 4pts Coutinho, and 6pts Clyne from the cleansheet did it. Not a bad way to end the year.
misawa97
30-12-2015
Originally Posted by TheMunch:
“Benteke's flaws are only noticeable because we're expecting too much of him, because we're relying on him to get us the goals since nobody else is chipping in with them. If Lallana, Coutinho, Firmino, etc. scored a few then Benteke scoring every other game would be fine. But they're not so we're wanting more than he can give. People might say because of his what we paid for him he should be doing more but I can't agree with that because he didn't ask for it, and he didn't receive it. The price tag adds unnecessary pressure on players.”

Very true. We cannot expect to clean sheets every game and the 3 behind Benteke need to get goals. It's criminal how few goals we get from these players. Lallana being the biggest culprit as his been here 18 months and his return in that time is simply not good enough.

That tackle on Sakho was a shocker. Automatic red!!!
TheMunch
30-12-2015
Just seen this on Facebook:

Sakho & Lovren:
Matches started together - 7
Won - 6
Clean Sheets - 5

They do seem to be playing well together. Looks like they could be forming a nice partnership. Just hope an injury doesn't break them up.
Dandem
30-12-2015
Originally Posted by Parthenon:
“Yeah, he does seem to be a better finisher when he's striking the ball first time or doing something instinctive. If I were Klopp I'd just get him practising lifting the ball more in 1 on 1s on the training field. I think if he lifts the two sitters he's had then he has a much higher chance of putting them away.”

It's a pet peeve of mine when strikers don't lift the ball off the ground when shooting, even if it's slightly. Just seeing a striker rolling the ball along the ground and seeing it blocked by an outstretched leg aggravates me.

Notice Benteke actually did lift the ball for his goal? Nicely over the keeper's leg and into the net. Had he rolled it along the ground, the keeper would have saved it. It was a smart finish.
TheSloth
30-12-2015
Not sure how Lallana or are keeping Ibe out of the side (his form has been good under Klopp). We need Ibe's directness sometimes rather than the intricacies of the three who were playing behind Benteke tonight.

As for a clean sheet, that was largely down to Sunderland's impotence tonight although we defended assertively when we were called upon.

Benteke has now scored three winners for us in tight 1-0 wins and notched the decisive third versus Chelsea. I'd too love to see Ings back but Benteke has hardly been a missive disaster - it's nose the fact no-one else is chipping in with goals to share the burden. Unlike Mario last season, at least Benteke isn't hiding and is winning plenty of points for us.

Thought we added urgency in the second half and pressed far better - need more of that versus West Ham.
TheMunch
30-12-2015
Lallana's been criticised recently for not getting enough goals and assists. Keeps doing tricks on the ball but not enough end-product, and that's true. He got the assist for Benteke's goal, though, so hopefully there's more to come. Klopp seems to like him. Agree with the above though I want to see more of Ibe.

Firmino had a good first half, had a few opportunities. Went quiet a bit in the second half I thought. He needs to start producing but he's at least looked a bit better.
TheSloth
30-12-2015
Originally Posted by Dandem:
“It's a pet peeve of mine when strikers don't lift the ball off the ground when shooting, even if it's slightly. Just seeing a striker rolling the ball along the ground and seeing it blocked by an outstretched leg aggravates me.

Notice Benteke actually did lift the ball for his goal? Nicely over the keeper's leg and into the net. Had he rolled it along the ground, the keeper would have saved it. It was a smart finish.”

Yes, I don't understand what's so wrong with the good old dink over the keeper. It war a staple in our late 80s team. It's not even a hard skill - it's more a composure thing.
TheSloth
30-12-2015
Originally Posted by owen10:
“How come we had four days between Boxing Day and tonight and others only had two days in between their matches”

TV - and not the first time we've benefited either during Easter/Xmas.
Parthenon
30-12-2015
Originally Posted by TheMunch:
“Lallana's been criticised recently for not getting enough goals and assists. Keeps doing tricks on the ball but not enough end-product, and that's true. He got the assist for Benteke's goal, though, so hopefully there's more to come. Klopp seems to like him. Agree with the above though I want to see more of Ibe.

Firmino had a good first half, had a few opportunities. Went quiet a bit in the second half I thought. He needs to start producing but he's at least looked a bit better.”

Not a chance he meant to poke that through for Benteke.
taurus_67
30-12-2015
I'm very happy with those three points, they're vital for us to keep on the tails of the teams above us.
There was plenty of flaws in the performance, the same as we've seen a few times already this season, but we did stick at it and thankfully in Benteke we've got a player who does find the net even when he isn't playing at 100%.

My heart was in my mouth when Sakho went down and I saw the lump of turf that got kicked up. Hope Hendo is going to be ok, but I've got a feeling he might miss West Ham with it coming so quickly. Firmino was so unlucky; he needs one of these wonder strikes to hit the net and give him a bog boost. Lallana is still frustrating as hell.

Hard to pick a MOTM tonight: Can catches the eye because he's all over the place trying to get involved in everything; Lovren continues to improve and in Skrtel's absence looks to be trying to be more of an organiser. But I think I might give the shout to Sakho tonight; he seemed to be there putting in important the challenges all through the game.
shaneomax
30-12-2015
A very tough and impressive win, against a team built to be very hard to play against, every time Sunderland got hold of the ball, more often than not they would hoof it up the field and hope for the best, Sunderland were set up for a 0-0 draw, we had many clear chances though which is not an easy feat against a team set up like that. Our problem is vs the smaller teams who aim for 0-0 or any kind of draw. Difficult to break down and hard to play against, so I am extremely impressed by tonight's performance. Sure Benteke has a lot to improve on, but he IS improving and the fact he has come up with crucial goals speaks volumes, I cannot knock him for grabbing crucial goals lets hope he keeps it up. I still see us finishing top 2 this season. 9 Pts off the top mid season, it is not impossible. We just need to find a way to break down these smaller teams, but tonight we did that, and its 2 back to back wins, lets hope we can start to build momentum now.
mikeyddd
30-12-2015
Originally Posted by TheSloth:
“TV - and not the first time we've benefited either during Easter/Xmas.”

Benefitted? We have 2 and a half days rest before our next game away to west ham, they have had 2 extra days.
taurus_67
30-12-2015
Originally Posted by alancracker:
“
Taurus - I do not agree when you say if we do not win both the games this week we have no chance of top 4 - 4 points out of 6 would be a good return but 6 would be even better I also think with JK in charge we can attract a decent level of signing whatever the results in the immediate future but those signings are more likely to be summer not January

It is hard not to look at the gap between us and the top - 9 points if we win at SFC and seeing as we play AFC shortly that could be down to 6 and it would only be January. Also we still have all the top teams to play at Anfield so you end up fantasising over how we could win the title but you are 100% right Kobashi to do so is getting way ahead of ourselves. I do think tho top 4 is within our capabilities but we could miss out on that too if we lose many more matches against sides we would not expect to lose to or fail to improve our home form. I think we have to try to do as well as possible and then look at it again about the start of March to see what a realistic aim would be. One problem is still being in all comps and with EL, Capital One Cup and FAC games to play our PL (which should be the priority) form may suffer

I do think there are going to be a lot more twists and turns in the title race - we are only half way through the season after all”

Yes, Alan, 4 points from 2 away games is usually perfectly acceptable in a normal season. But this isn't really playing out like a normal season and we've already given away more points than we should to be on a steady course for top 4. Indeed, three of the points we lost were to West Ham, it would be very good to get them all back.

But my point was how tight it is between half a dozen teams; a few points lost or a few points gained can ( and I think will) make a big difference to the league position. I accept it's only January and good runs and bad runs are still possible ( and likely will happen to a couple of teams), but over the last couple of games there is the first hint of a gap developing between 4th and 5th ( 6th & 7th) .

A win down in London at the weekend will ensure we keep right in there and that could be a big confidence and motivational boost before those Anfield games against Arsenal and Utd.
kobashi100
30-12-2015
Originally Posted by TheSloth:
“Not sure how Lallana or are keeping Ibe out of the side (his form has been good under Klopp). We need Ibe's directness sometimes rather than the intricacies of the three who were playing behind Benteke tonight.

As for a clean sheet, that was largely down to Sunderland's impotence tonight although we defended assertively when we were called upon.

Benteke has now scored three winners for us in tight 1-0 wins and notched the decisive third versus Chelsea. I'd too love to see Ings back but Benteke has hardly been a missive disaster - it's nose the fact no-one else is chipping in with goals to share the burden. Unlike Mario last season, at least Benteke isn't hiding and is winning plenty of points for us.

Thought we added urgency in the second half and pressed far better - need more of that versus West Ham.”

Regarding lallana, mentioned it last week but I really do think he is one of them players who looks really good in training. Technically he is arguably the best player at the club alongside coutinho.

Rodgers and now klopp have a vision of what he can do and should be doing on the pitch but it just isnt working out. With the ability he has, we should be seeing goals and more assists.

He needs to be cutting defences open.
misawa97
31-12-2015
Originally Posted by taurus_67:
“I'm very happy with those three points, they're vital for us to keep on the tails of the teams above us.
There was plenty of flaws in the performance, the same as we've seen a few times already this season, but we did stick at it and thankfully in Benteke we've got a player who does find the net even when he isn't playing at 100%.

My heart was in my mouth when Sakho went down and I saw the lump of turf that got kicked up. Hope Hendo is going to be ok, but I've got a feeling he might miss West Ham with it coming so quickly. Firmino was so unlucky; he needs one of these wonder strikes to hit the net and give him a bog boost. Lallana is still frustrating as hell.

Hard to pick a MOTM tonight: Can catches the eye because he's all over the place trying to get involved in everything; Lovren continues to improve and in Skrtel's absence looks to be trying to be more of an organiser. But I think I might give the shout to Sakho tonight; he seemed to be there putting in important the challenges all through the game.”

Both defender's played well. I think the difference between the both is the last two games the opposition has gone down our left hand side more than the right so Sakho has had to 'defend' more.

As for Lallana, I get the impression he doesn't mind playing on the edges of the game keeping it nice and tidy without really getting hold of the game and doing something which makes a real difference in a game.
TheSloth
31-12-2015
Originally Posted by mikeyddd:
“Benefitted? We have 2 and a half days rest before our next game away to west ham, they have had 2 extra days.”

Wednesday-Saturday is a normal gap - no different to if we had a midweek European/cup tie and the Hammers did not. Rather that than risking injury or having to rest key players by playing Saturday-Monday, especially as our game is based on high energy.
mikeyddd
31-12-2015
Originally Posted by TheSloth:
“Wednesday-Saturday is a normal gap - no different to if we had a midweek European/cup tie and the Hammers did not. Rather that than risking injury or having to rest key players by playing Saturday-Monday, especially as our game is based on high energy.”

It might be normal, but even then it's not usual to follow up with an early kick of, but it's certainly not benefiting Liverpool
alancracker
31-12-2015
A confession from me - I have not really enjoyed some of our recent performances - Watford, Newcastle and this one tonight but at least tonight we won.

Reflections? - really despite the table and upcoming fixtures telling you otherwise you cannot see us as title challengers as we are simply not playing well enough. Hopefully tho we can get top 4 and perhaps a trophy too as we are still in the running for every one we entered which not many teams are. But as I said the other day that could be a hindrance as we will have too many games to play - but for sure JK will not throw any comp and will want us to win every game - and so he should. I am sure that after a few JK windows we will be able to assess him more - and I will be amazed if we are not playing better and have a better class of player on our books before long - like almost all of us I am very hopeful over the future for LFC with him in charge.

Players? - I am fast coming to like Lovren (shock horror given how I felt about him in the summer) - for me he was motm tonight again and I think he and Sakho should be the first choices CBs but until we bring new blood in Skrtel has to be kept. We have 4 strikers but only fit one at present so Benteke has to play and whilst he is frustrating and if the others were fit I feel sure one or more of them would be in at least his attitude is good and he has got some vital goals for us. I do feel it is not an unreasonable expectation that a striker should be able to finish one on ones tho - or at least some of them. Today when he went through I was semi expecting him to miss. As some has said tho more goals from midfield would make a difference. Our 9 main midfield players? - we are now halfway through the season and Can, Lallana, Ibe, Allen and Lucas have not got one PL goal between them so far this season and Hendo, Firmino and Milner have just one each if we exclude penalties. Coutinho is easily the best scorer with 4 is it - I like the fact he shoots a lot - others take note!! We need to work hard on movement and being better at breaking down massed defences and scoring - and JK has said as much - and also maybe play to the strengths more of the players we have on the pitch at the time. But it is a problem for almost any team in the world so we are not unique there.
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