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Liverpool Supporters Thread (Part 21)
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misawa97
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by square-root:
“I agree the passing and ball retention is far worse under Klopp.

I would also say the following:

The team is unable to defend since Klopp came in.

Attacking play in the final third is worse in terms of it being rushed, and with there being very little idea of how they're going to score. Most of the time, the players are still trying to pass the ball in to the net instead of shooting which leads to loss of possession. No one seems to either have the desire or ability to shoot on target.

Firmino and Benteke are simply not good enough, and need to be sold.

Lewandowski needs to be bought in for whatever it costs. Clearly with no European football on the horizon for next season, the only lure the club has is his relationship with Klopp, and money. We should all be thankful that Klopp said no to spending £38m on that Taxiera or whatever he's called, he simply wasn't what's required. If LFC can get Lewandowski for £75-80m, it would be a huge statement of intent. With Guardiola having £150m to spend at Man City, and Mourinho all but guranteed the Man Utd job, I can see Liverpool being left ever further out in the wilderness.

Last thing. I'm amazed that Klopp didn't bring a single player in during the transfer window. It makes me wonder exactly what's going on. One transfer target of dubious ability at a club that Ayre must've known would never deal.



The club has 3 points more than Bournemouth. No disrepect to the lads on the south coast, they've done brilliantly, but enough said.”

I think Lewondowski is beyond what we can expect. He will have a pick of clubs to choose from when he decided he wants to go and his wages alone is behind what we can afford. Real Madrid all the way I think.

We need serious work though as this group of players are not up to a high intensity pressing game. Do not have enough pace for starters.
kobashi100
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by TheSloth:
“I was dismayed when Spurs snatched, Alli from under our noses after we hesitated over paying £5m for an obvious talent. That's not hindsight - I posted on the Spurs thread the day they signed him. He'd have got into our midfield and provided the energy, creativity, goals and imagination we lack from too many of our samey players.”

bet FSG are regretting that decision big time!
TheSloth
02-02-2016
Klopp sounded very distressed, frustrated and angry on 5 Live - especially when asked if he wished he had a player like Vardy. I suspect he's not happy with not just the players on the pitch. His usual humour was AWOL.
square-root
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by kobashi100:
“bet FSG are regretting that decision big time!”

I read the other day that it wasn't the £5m that was a problem. The problem was that the idiots Henry and Ayre would only pay him an under 21 wage.
kobashi100
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by square-root:
“I read the other day that it wasn't the £5m that was a problem. The problem was that the idiots Henry and Ayre would only pay him an under 21 wage.”

Don't think Ayre should get the blame. Why is that fans blame him always.

If FSG have a clear policy on what young players should be paid then Ian Ayre cannot change that.

Too many fans are quick to lay the blame at him for every deal that falls through.
square-root
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by TheSloth:
“Klopp sounded very distressed, frustrated and angry on 5 Live - especially when asked if he wished he had a player like Vardy. I suspect he's not happy with not just the players on the pitch. His usual humour was AWOL.”

Something is badly rotten at the club. I can sum it up with what Souness said on Sky Sports immediately after the news broke that Rodgers had been sacked.

It all boils down to ineptitude and a complete lack of forward thinking on the part of FSG. Henry has no clue what he's doing, and doesn't seem to care. His entire thought process seems to revolve around "when the new stand is built, everything will be fabulous". But he has no idea how to implement "fabulous".

Together, he and Ayre are Dumb and Dumber MkII.

Where's the scouting department, and what is it doing?

Given that Ings and Gomez did their ACLs over 4 months ago, and the club has been paralysed by injuries for months, why was there only one unachievable target in the Jan transfer window?

Why hasn't Surridge been sacked for either blatantly refusing to play, or for not having the required level of fitness to fulfill the job he's employed to do?

I despair. And I think so does Klopp.
asyousay
02-02-2016
How many players do we think will be sold in the summer ?

If I had to pick players who are just a complete liability I would name

Moreno
Lovren
Lallana
Benteke

And it pains me to say it as when fit he is a great player sturridge but he is simply too injury prone and we can't rely on him.
kobashi100
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by square-root:
“Something is badly rotten at the club. I can sum it up with what Souness said on Sky Sports immediately after the news broke that Rodgers had been sacked.

It all boils down to ineptitude and a complete lack of forward thinking on the part of FSG. Henry has no clue what he's doing, and doesn't seem to care. His entire thought process seems to revolve around "when the new stand is built, everything will be fabulous". But he has no idea how to implement "fabulous".

Together, he and Ayre are Dumb and Dumber MkII.

Where's the scouting department, and what is it doing?

Given that Ings and Gomez did their ACLs over 4 months ago, and the club has been paralysed by injuries for months, why was there only one unachievable target in the Jan transfer window?

Why hasn't Surridge been sacked for either blatantly refusing to play, or for not having the required level of fitness to fulfill the job he's employed to do?

I despair. And I think so does Klopp.”

Sorry but that comment about sturridge being sacked has got to be one of the most silly comments i have ever seen.

What planet are you living on. Being injured is not a sackable offence.

Good grief. Do you not understand that sturridge only recently signed a new contract and FSG will have to pay him off on his whole contract and probably more.

Also have you ever thought that the players klopp targeted were not available so there was no other players to buy.

Stop the theory that the club deliberately never signed anyone against the managers wishes.

It's pathetic. Klopp has to take some responsibility when we put in average performances.

You are living in a football manager/fifa world where you scout players and its simple to sign them.

It's not that easy at all.
Michael_Vaughan
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by square-root:
“I agree the passing and ball retention is far worse under Klopp.

I would also say the following:

The team is unable to defend since Klopp

.”

This is the only part of your post I disagree with.Defensive frailties have been with us for years now.Unless you mean each 11 we select is having trouble in the defensive adjustment from Rodgers style to that of Klopp.

It's more than possible that Ayre and his staff wasted all of January going after one player.Would be typical of the way the club has been run for years. They could say yes we didn't want to pay as much as Shaktar wanted but did Klopp and them really not want to strengthen elsewhere on the field.
taurus_67
02-02-2016
For most of the game I thought we didn't play that badly; I've certainly seen us play far worse this season. Having said that, we weren't particularly thrilling or confidence inspiring either.

The stats: 65% possession, 14 attempts, 12 corners...but only 2 shots on target! ( spot the problem? ) Leicester's game plan, and execution of it, worked perfectly for them and we played into their hands. You have to hand it to them; they exploit space so well and with so much confidence upfront it seems inevitable they'll score. And none of their players cost an eye-watering fortune.

Some games we look not that far off and you can believe that a back to normal Sturridge will make the difference. Then in others we're picking problems all over the place: not enough presence in defence, not enough power in midfield, not enough guile and invention upfront and lacking pace all the way from back to front.

Considering what's happening (and what's probably coming ) in the rest of the league this summer, there's going to massive pressure on the recruitment policy during the next window.
It's never the most balanced time to be making judgement opinions after a defeat, but I doubt we'll sort it all out in one window and it'll take more than Matip and Teixeria.
Michael_Vaughan
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by kobashi100:
“
It's pathetic. Klopp has to take some responsibility when we put in avaerge performances.”

I am concerned that his regular references to players tiredness almost gives them the excuse to look half hearted in their play.

He needs to get so much right this summer, in terms of signings and starting next season creating real momentum. Who he gets rid if may be as important as who he signs.
kobashi100
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by taurus_67:
“For most of the game I thought we didn't play that badly; I've certainly seen us play far worse this season. Having said that, we weren't particularly thrilling or confidence inspiring either.

The stats: 65% possession, 14 attempts, 12 corners...but only 2 shots on target! ( spot the problem? ) Leicester's game plan, and execution of it, worked perfectly for them and we played into their hands. You have to hand it to them; they exploit space so well and with so much confidence upfront it seems inevitable they'll score. And none of their players cost an eye-watering fortune.

Some games we look not that far off and you can believe that a back to normal Sturridge will make the difference. Then in others we're picking problems all over the place: not enough presence in defence, not enough power in midfield, not enough guile and invention upfront and lacking pace all the way from back to front.

Considering what's happening (and what's probably coming ) in the rest of the league this summer, there's going to massive pressure on the recruitment policy during the next window.
It's never the most balanced time to be making judgement opinions after a defeat, but I doubt we'll sort it all out in one window and it'll take more than Matip and Teixeria.”

I think klopp will need at least 3 transfer windows. Anyone expecting some massive overhaul of the squad in the summer is gonna be disappointed. It's not gonna be that quick

I think generally we defended okay tonight. First goal was a wonder strike. Lovren lack of pace was clear to see through the game but the back 4 didn't do to bad.

Moreno made the same usual mistakes he does every week though.

Going forward we were toothless. Never looked like scoring at all
square-root
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by kobashi100:
“Sorry but that comment about sturridge being sacked has got to be one of the most silly comments i have ever seen.

What planet are you living on. Being injured is not a sackable offence.

Good grief. Do you not understand that sturridge only recently signed a new contract and FSG will have to pay him off on his whole contract and probably more.
”

This goes back to FSG ineptitude. Can someone explain to me how a player who's never fit, either physically or mentally (assuming he's not lazy and faking it), and I come down strongly on the side of Sturridge having mental problems, be given a new contract? When you think that the LFC medical dept failed Loic Remy (no loss, but at least he played at Chelsea) for having a supposedly dodgy heart that Chelsea didn't even find fault with, how the hell has it not picked up every single physical problem that Sturridge seems to have? I could train for longer than he does before falling over, and I've got one buggered lung, f*cked up knees, and I'm way older than he is.

Sturridge needs to be told that if he's not going to play, then his contract will be torn up. If the medical team can find nothing wrong with him, he needs to be passed fit and selected to play by Klopp. If he refuses to play by crying that he's injured, sack him. He doesn't need to be paid off. He wouldn't get sacked with a huge pay off in any other walk of life for refusing to do his job. He'd just be sacked.

My guess is that no other club will have him should the above happen, so it might be an incentive to him to stop acting like a child and to pull his finger out.
square-root
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by Michael_Vaughan:
“This is the only part of your post I disagree with.Defensive frailties have been with us for years now.Unless you mean each 11 we select is having trouble in the defensive adjustment from Rodgers style to that of Klopp.”

I'll agree the team's been defensively poor since the last months of Benitez, and it's never been sorted, but despite that, it didn't concede goals like it's been doing since Klopp arrived. I expect Liverpool to concede two or three a game under Klopp. Even I never had such low expectations under Rodgers, someone who was a master at driving down fan expectation.
misawa97
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by square-root:
“This goes back to FSG ineptitude. Can someone explain to me how a player who's never fit, either physically or mentally (assuming he's not lazy and faking it), and I come down strongly on the side of Sturridge having mental problems, be given a new contract? When you think that the LFC medical dept failed Loic Remy (no loss, but at least he played at Chelsea) for having a supposedly dodgy heart that Chelsea didn't even find fault with, how the hell has it not picked up every single physical problem that Sturridge seems to have? I could train for longer than he does before falling over, and I've got one buggered lung, f*cked up knees, and I'm way older than he is.

Sturridge needs to be told that if he's not going to play, then his contract will be torn up. If the medical team can find nothing wrong with him, he needs to be passed fit and selected to play by Klopp. If he refuses to play by crying that he's injured, sack him. He doesn't need to be paid off. He wouldn't get sacked with a huge pay off in any other walk of life for refusing to do his job. He'd just be sacked.

My guess is that no other club will have him should the above happen, so it might be an incentive to him to stop acting like a child and to pull his finger out.”

You can't just tear a contract up. Being injured isn't a breach of contract.

FSG couldn't foresee the injury problems and if it wasn't the case and he wasn't signed up people would be going mental.

You can't compare Footballers to any other job. If we are doing that then don't complain if players talk to other clubs seeking new employment. I mean we can all do that leaving a job and going to a new one whenever we like. Should players be able to do that?

The positives are the manager has had enough time to identify what he wants and who he doesn't want. As long as the summer is productive in getting players Klopp wants then we should see a side in his image. At the moment I'm not sure if our inconsistent pattern of play is down to not having the players required to play the way he wants.

That style he had a Dortmund isn't easy to replicate without the right players.
square-root
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by misawa97:
“You can't just tear a contract up. Being injured isn't a breach of contract.”

We need to start thinking there's nothing wrong with him. It just plays in to his hands. If the fans turn on him, it will be interesting to see what he does. Have a Lazarus like return to health, or carry on being "injured".
misawa97
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by square-root:
“We need to start thinking there's nothing wrong with him. It just plays in to his hands. If the fans turn on him, it will be interesting to see what he does. Have a Lazarus like return to health, or carry on being "injured".”

But why should we think that. I'm no doctor and I'm not going to assume a player is lying. I seriously don't think Sturridge enjoys being injured and doesn't want to play. Why would he want that?

For all the frustrations we have I think it's tenfold for him. No player enjoys being injured.

Sturridge isn't on the pitch and isn't to blame for bad results. We should be looking at the players who are playing and not performing rather than those who are injured.
square-root
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by misawa97:
“ I mean we can all do that leaving a job and going to a new one whenever we like. Should players be able to do that?”

Why not? I see no problem with that. Everyone thought Marc Bosman would destroy football when he won his case, but the game as we knew it is still here. If football can't incoporate standard worker freedom of movement, then that needs to be forced on it.

A football club is like any company. If you have happy staff, and you're paying them enough, they won't want to go elsewhere. For the modern footballer, it's not about winnings things, it's all about money. What house, cars, and clothes they can afford, and what Club America sponser they can pull.
misawa97
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by square-root:
“Why not? I see no problem with that. Everyone thought Marc Bosman would destroy football when he won his case, but the game as we knew it is still here. If football can't incoporate standard worker freedom of movement, then that needs to be forced on it.

A football club is like any company. If you have happy staff, and you're paying them enough, they won't want to go elsewhere. For the modern footballer, it's not about winnings things, it's all about money. What house, cars, and clothes they can afford, and what Club America sponser they can pull.”

No need for contracts then or fees. That's what real freedom of movement is. That's chaos. Players will always come and go, that's football.

To me this team looks mentally and physically fatigued.

We need origi back Asap as we really miss a striker who can run in behind to stretch sides. Everything is played in front we don't have the players who can play that tight intricate football.
kobashi100
02-02-2016
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport...-fans-10821611

This sounds to me that klopp wasn't looking to buy anyone else in January. Texeira was the player him and the club thought was a realistic target but they could not get the deal done.

Signing 2nd choice players would have been a huge mistake.
Orchideam
02-02-2016
Originally Posted by misawa97:
“No need for contracts then or fees. That's what real freedom of movement is. That's chaos. Players will always come and go, that's football.

To me this team looks mentally and physically fatigued.

We need origi back Asap as we really miss a striker who can run in behind to stretch sides. Everything is played in front we don't have the players who can play that tight intricate football.”

Nail on the head, and tonight? so did Klopp. Far too many matches, we had 2 other matches to play since our last PL one - Leicester had 10 days rest. We are football weary, small wonder we were so poor tonight.

Originally Posted by kobashi100:
“http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport...-fans-10821611

This sounds to me that klopp wasn't looking to buy anyone else in January. Texeira was the player him and the club thought was a realistic target but they could not get the deal done.

Signing 2nd choice players would have been a huge mistake.”

Buying the wrong type of players has a lot to do with where we are now. Klopp is right to wait for the right players, it's the only chance we have to begin to move forward.
DUNDEEBOY
03-02-2016
Will your team concentrate on the three cups as the league doesn't really have much left for you, Europa league place maybe in the league at best
kobashi100
03-02-2016
Originally Posted by DUNDEEBOY:
“Will your team concentrate on the three cups as the league doesn't really have much left for you, Europa league place maybe in the league at best”

No you can't go out on a league game half hearted then turn it on in the cups.

It won't work. Need to start playing well in all games. Can't switch it on and off like a tap.
Assa2
03-02-2016
Originally Posted by square-root:
“Are Liverpool worse under Klopp than Rodgers?”

Originally Posted by openarms:
“Early days but in pts/game in the league I think it's 1.77 for Rodgers and 1.375 for Klopp. Rodgers was 1.5 for the first 8 games before Klopp came in I think.”

I posted the stats last week. Yes we are worse under Klopp, in terms of league that is. Doesn't mean Klopp is a worse manager or it was a mistake to sack Rodgers. We were dreadful under Rodgers when he first arrived and it took half a season before we really got into shape.
misawa97
03-02-2016
Where does Lucas fit into the side. I feel when games are tactical his very good but boy when his pressed by the likes of of Drinkwater and Konté who do not stop he really struggles. Can needs to come out of the side as he gives the ball away too much.

Allen at least plays with is head up. Surely it cant be just his size which sees him not play as he does have ability.
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