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Liverpool Supporters Thread (Part 21)
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taurus_67
11-03-2016
Originally Posted by CGG_12:
“Posted in neutral thread but prob better suited to here

While Liverpool have been woefully inconsistent they have a real chance to finish the season strongly. Bar Tottenham at home (and that's a winnable one imo) and the Everton game in hand, they have no "big" team left to play at all. Stoke and Southampton are the height of it, and if they can play like last night they shouldn't have problems in either of those. It's mostly bottom half teams

Huge chance to finish 5th (I'd be amazed if the top 4 doesn't finish like it is), which psychologically would do them good heading into next year. Heck if City or Arsenal do somehow fall away Pool should be the best placed team to take advantage given the run in
”

I don't think it's as straight forward as that, tbh. We have 10 games left and 6 are at home. Those home games include title chasing Spurs, a derby against Everton and Chelsea, who were top of the form guide last time I looked. Then there's Stoke who are usually tough to beat and recently got a result at Anfield in the LC, and Newcastle, fighting for their survival and may well have Rafa organising them!
Throw in some more European adventures ( hopefully ) and the inevitable fixture congestion and fatigue that will accompany it all and there's an awful lot of hard work to win those points. But there's a great opportunity for players to prove themselves over the next few weeks.
CGG_12
11-03-2016
Originally Posted by taurus_67:
“I don't think it's as straight forward as that, tbh. We have 10 games left and 6 are at home. Those home games include title chasing Spurs, a derby against Everton and Chelsea, who were top of the form guide last time I looked. Then there's Stoke who are usually tough to beat and recently got a result at Anfield in the LC, and Newcastle, fighting for their survival and may well have Rafa organising them!
Throw in some more European adventures ( hopefully ) and the inevitable fixture congestion and fatigue that will accompany it all and there's an awful lot of hard work to win those points. But there's a great opportunity for players to prove themselves over the next few weeks.”

That Chelsea fixture isn't mentioned anywhere, damn postponed matches! I always fancy Pool at home to Chelsea though

You're looking at it fairly pessimistically though. Granted Liverpool have dropped silly points all season, but on any planet that's as handy a run in as you can ask for. Don't know the recent stats off the top of my head but Pool seem to always beat Spurs recently. Spurs looked very ordinary the last few matches- the title pressure may be catching up with them

Stoke and newcastle should be two gimmes though, I don't care what they're playing for

I'm not saying pool will beat everyone (they'll no doubt drop silly points) but you could hardly hand pick a better run in. whatever else it's a serious opportunity to finish a mediocre season strongly
Malbren
11-03-2016
Really pleased with last night's result. We deserved even more out of the game really. Coutinho should have used his left peg to get the ball over the line, Sturridge should perhaps have done better than just blasting his one on one chance at De Gea, a bit more composure would have saw that in the back of the net and De Gea made a couple of good saves from Lallana & Coutinho so 4 nil wouldn't have exactly flattered us. I'll take that 2 nil lead though for sure.

I thought Clyne was MOTM, best game I've seen him have for us in both a defending and attacking way.

So disappointed with the Man Utd fans chants though

I was asked in work before the game why I disliked Man Utd, was it just the rivalry, history...my reply was simply because they hate us! Last night's behaviour from them shows why I dislike them, totally unnecessary chants. I feel I should put a disclaimer out there though that no retribution (sick chanting wise) is in order and I do hope our fans do not stoop to such chants, time will tell I suppose.

I love Klopp but I have to say I quite like LVG's pressers too. It'll be a shame to see him go.
misawa97
11-03-2016
Originally Posted by Malbren:
“Really pleased with last night's result. We deserved even more out of the game really. Coutinho should have used his left peg to get the ball over the line, Sturridge should perhaps have done better than just blasting his one on one chance at De Gea, a bit more composure would have saw that in the back of the net and De Gea made a couple of good saves from Lallana & Coutinho so 4 nil wouldn't have exactly flattered us. I'll take that 2 nil lead though for sure.

I thought Clyne was MOTM, best game I've seen him have for us in both a defending and attacking way.

So disappointed with the Man Utd fans chants though

I was asked in work before the game why I disliked Man Utd, was it just the rivalry, history...my reply was simply because they hate us! Last night's behaviour from them shows why I dislike them, totally unnecessary chants. I feel I should put a disclaimer out there though that no retribution (sick chanting wise) is in order and I do hope our fans do not stoop to such chants, time will tell I suppose.

I love Klopp but I have to say I quite like LVG's pressers too. It'll be a shame to see him go.”

It's not just the chants. I have seen morons on our side who make the aeroplane gestures whenever Liverpool play Man Utd.
Sick Bullet
11-03-2016
Haha https://www.facebook.com/immerboruss...type=2&theater

Parthenon
11-03-2016
Originally Posted by Draca_Noir:
“Clyne has been pretty solid defensively all season, it's going forward where he seems to get things wrong, but do have to agree that yesterday he was brilliant. Most of United's pacy and dangerous players were on his side and he did really well in containing them.

Did anyone else notice Firmino drop deep and collect the ball and then with one drop of the shoulder take Schneiderlin out of the game, he did it a few times in the 1st half? It's the kind of play you need when a team sits back in 2 banks of 4.”

Agree totally about Clyne. He's been our most consistent performer this season. He's as good as any right back in the league defensively, but it's going forward where he needs to improve like you say. I'm seeing little improvements in his offensive game week-on-week though which is promising.
alancracker
11-03-2016
Originally Posted by Parthenon:
“Agree totally about Clyne. He's been our most consistent performer this season. He's as good as any right back in the league defensively, but it's going forward where he needs to improve like you say. I'm seeing little improvements in his offensive game week-on-week though which is promising.”

Last night he was very good I agree. Probably our best player.

Overall? - done OK but not outstanding is my assessment.

My 2 sons mock me over this but at times I have been a bit critical of him - and even was last night a bit as in the first 15 seconds he stood off the wide player and let them get a cross in and Moreno (another who I criticise a bit) let it go over his head and Rashford could have scored. For the remaining 89 minutes 45 seconds tho I admit he was great!!

I know what I am going to say now will not find a lot of support from LFC fans but something I feel as I watch PL matches is that Glen Johnson at Stoke has played well this season - I know he was poor 2 seasons ago but last season he was OK for us too - and so I think we could have been a bit hasty letting him go. He is only about 29 or 30. and I felt as if he was let go as much for his age and the fact he was a high earner as his play - and I dislike us making decisions for those kind of reasons. The only reasons which should decide if we keep a player are whether they are playing well enough to help us win matches.

At times watching Clyne this season I have thought he was no better and at times maybe even worse than Glen - but we are told that cos he is 24 and earns less we should be happy? But last night he showed a new level - and if that can become the norm then happy days cos for sure that level is better than Glen.

The long term question of who should be our full backs is interesting - I favour Clyne and Flanno with Smith in reserve and Moreno sold maybe with a new player brought in and Gomez possibly having a role altho he could be a CB too, the jury is still out on that one - but whether Klopp agrees we will see after the summer and who starts the first game of next season there. To me the main job of a FB is to defend and if they can attack then it is a bonus, at times some of ours have been the other way round. Look at the CFC FBs - Ivanovic and Azpil - both excellent defensively and OK attacking wise but they helped CFC be very successful. That is the type of FBs I want.
lordOfTime
11-03-2016
Newcastle fan coming in peace.

I expect I'll visit again when we come to Anfield.

I have to ask about Rafa! I'm delighted we've secured him even if it's just for 10 games and he can't keep us up. What do you think he can bring to Newcastle? Positives? Negatives?
Sebastian1992
11-03-2016
Originally Posted by lordOfTime:
“Newcastle fan coming in peace.

I expect I'll visit again when we come to Anfield.

I have to ask about Rafa! I'm delighted we've secured him even if it's just for 10 games and he can't keep us up. What do you think he can bring to Newcastle? Positives? Negatives? ”

You'll be organised. He'll probably stick with his 4-3-2-1 formation. He'll use the word quality in every post-match interview.
lordOfTime
11-03-2016
Originally Posted by Sebastian1992:
“You'll be organised. He'll probably stick with his 4-3-2-1 formation. He'll use the word quality in every post-match interview.”

Pretty much what we're doing now then only more organised. And I'm told he can organise a defence too which we badly need. If he can make good defenders out of us and the players respond to him there might be hope.

So long as the quality is there he can say quality all he wants.
Malbren
11-03-2016
Originally Posted by lordOfTime:
“Newcastle fan coming in peace.

I expect I'll visit again when we come to Anfield.

I have to ask about Rafa! I'm delighted we've secured him even if it's just for 10 games and he can't keep us up. What do you think he can bring to Newcastle? Positives? Negatives? ”

Well for what it's worth I hope he keeps you up now, wasn't bothered if you went down previously but I love Rafa so want him to be successful wherever he lays his hat. Not too successful mind when he is at a fellow PL team.

In the longer term he'll bring better players to Newcastle i'd imagine

Think back to Rafa's Liverpool teams v yourselves at St James's Park, some cracking wins back then Good luck , I'm sure He'll be keen to stick one to his old foe Big Sam,
Grouty
11-03-2016
Originally Posted by Sick Bullet:
“Haha https://www.facebook.com/immerboruss...type=2&theater

”

Thats class
Malbren
11-03-2016
Originally Posted by Sick Bullet:
“Haha https://www.facebook.com/immerboruss...type=2&theater

”

love it ha
Parthenon
12-03-2016
Originally Posted by alancracker:
“Last night he was very good I agree. Probably our best player.

Overall? - done OK but not outstanding is my assessment.

My 2 sons mock me over this but at times I have been a bit critical of him - and even was last night a bit as in the first 15 seconds he stood off the wide player and let them get a cross in and Moreno (another who I criticise a bit) let it go over his head and Rashford could have scored. For the remaining 89 minutes 45 seconds tho I admit he was great!!

I know what I am going to say now will not find a lot of support from LFC fans but something I feel as I watch PL matches is that Glen Johnson at Stoke has played well this season - I know he was poor 2 seasons ago but last season he was OK for us too - and so I think we could have been a bit hasty letting him go. He is only about 29 or 30. and I felt as if he was let go as much for his age and the fact he was a high earner as his play - and I dislike us making decisions for those kind of reasons. The only reasons which should decide if we keep a player are whether they are playing well enough to help us win matches.

At times watching Clyne this season I have thought he was no better and at times maybe even worse than Glen - but we are told that cos he is 24 and earns less we should be happy? But last night he showed a new level - and if that can become the norm then happy days cos for sure that level is better than Glen.”

Have to disagree entirely. Clyne and Johnson are worlds apart defensively. Clyne is a brilliant tackler and has had the better of pretty much every wide player he's faced this season. His only real bad game that sticks in my mind is the trip to Upton Park in January where Antonio and Carroll targeted his lack of height at the back post with long diagonals and got 2 goals from it (but even then he should have had more help from his centre backs to deal with those threats).

Going forward I would concede that Johnson is still probably better, although he certainly didn't show it in his last couple of seasons with us. Clyne's short passing and decision making in the final third need improvement but I'm sure he doesn't kill attacks with the regularity that Johnson did in those last 2 seasons, who would constantly cut inside to hit row Z with his left foot or make a poor pass and then jog back while the other team counter-attacked. I'm certain we made the right choice to get rid.

Our defence has been poor yet again this season which will seriously limit the praise Clyne will get, but I place the vast majority of the blame on Mignolet's clangers, Moreno's utterly brainless defending and the inconsistency of our centre backs. Only Lovren has recently started to show some form.
alancracker
12-03-2016
Parthenon - have you watched Glen for Stoke this season? - cos I think he has very good in both areas of the pitch - and is always picked when fit so that must say something..I do not think I can recall one goal Stoke have conceded due to Glen so he has not been that bad defensively. I do think 2 seasons ago he was pretty bad for us and that caused some of the fans to get on his back - including me to an extent as I used to knock him all the time - but last season when he got a chance he did better I felt. I just find myself asking why he can play at this level for Stoke and Mark Hughes and the level he did 2 years ago for BR and LFC.

I am not that anti Clyne and as you can see I would have him in my first choice FBs and would not support trying to buy a replacement or anything but I do think he has been as I put in the first post OK but far from outstanding. I was maybe expecting more as I felt he was better at Ston but you could say the same about Lallana and maybe even Lovren (who has been better but has still not yet totally convinced me) so perhaps we need to show more patience when a new player comes from a lesser club to ours as they adapt to our style. I am sure from now on in under Klopp with Clyne things will on the whole be onwards and upwards as they say.
Sebastian1992
12-03-2016
Originally Posted by alancracker:
“Parthenon - have you watched Glen for Stoke this season? - cos I think he has very good in both areas of the pitch - and is always picked when fit so that must say something..I do not think I can recall one goal Stoke have conceded due to Glen so he has not been that bad defensively. I do think 2 seasons ago he was pretty bad for us and that caused some of the fans to get on his back - including me to an extent as I used to knock him all the time - but last season when he got a chance he did better I felt. I just find myself asking why he can play at this level for Stoke and Mark Hughes and the level he did 2 years ago for BR and LFC.

I am not that anti Clyne and as you can see I would have him in my first choice FBs and would not support trying to buy a replacement or anything but I do think he has been as I put in the first post OK but far from outstanding. I was maybe expecting more as I felt he was better at Ston but you could say the same about Lallana and maybe even Lovren (who has been better but has still not yet totally convinced me) so perhaps we need to show more patience when a new player comes from a lesser club to ours as they adapt to our style. I am sure from now on in under Klopp with Clyne things will on the whole be onwards and upwards as they say.”

Clyne has been one of the most effective players at the club since he came in. I'd take Clyne over Johnson all day long.

He's one of those players that's so effective you just don't notice them unless they are not at their usual level. He's consistent, reliable and just very good.

I don't think he needs patience, I think you just need to pay attention.
TheSloth
12-03-2016
I constantly defended Johnson but his last 18 months were dreadful - his head was clearly not at Liverpool any longer for whatever reason and he so often lacked focus and concentration. His subsequent displays for Stoke are immaterial to that. Clyne is slowly getting back to the buccaneering form he showed at Southampton so I still think it was the right move to let Johnson go - especially given tie full back options we now have. No one could have predicted the injuries we suffered once Johnson left either - hindsight distorts things a little.
alancracker
13-03-2016
Originally Posted by Sebastian1992:
“Clyne has been one of the most effective players at the club since he came in. I'd take Clyne over Johnson all day long.

He's one of those players that's so effective you just don't notice them unless they are not at their usual level. He's consistent, reliable and just very good.

I don't think he needs patience, I think you just need to pay attention.”

I need to pay attention?? - sorry for having an opinion!!

You see I can recall us having really good RBs like Phil Neal, Rob Jones, Glen when he first came and even Steve Finnan so for me Clyne is not at that level. Do you think he is? - cos if you do I think you are looking at it through rose tinted specs. I also look at the RBs at other clubs and think many of them are a bit better but yes he is improving and apart from the first 15 seconds was great V MUFC so lets hope in time he can be the player we all want - the best RB in the PL cos that is what we need in every position.

I do think stick from fans can effect players careers - and that was the case with Glen for the last 2 and a half years at the club. His face did not fit any more - Borini was similar I felt (altho his form for Sunderland has not been as good as Glen for Stoke)After some dodgy games Johnson got constant moans from the crowd and lost some focus - the worst time was 24 months before he left to 12 months before he left when he was pretty poor - but I did think last season on the odd occasion when he was played he showed that he was returning to his true form and this has carried on as his form for Stoke has been excellent. When players wear the LFC shirt they should get support at all times.

It is not that relevant cos obviously Glen is not coming back and Clyne will be our RB for the foreseeable future but I just hope that we do not ditch players who could still do a job for us just cos they are getting in a bit - Lucas is one who comes to mind, if we sell Lucas I would be livid. We need experienced players as well as young players.
Parthenon
13-03-2016
Originally Posted by alancracker:
“Parthenon - have you watched Glen for Stoke this season? - cos I think he has very good in both areas of the pitch - and is always picked when fit so that must say something..I do not think I can recall one goal Stoke have conceded due to Glen so he has not been that bad defensively. I do think 2 seasons ago he was pretty bad for us and that caused some of the fans to get on his back - including me to an extent as I used to knock him all the time - but last season when he got a chance he did better I felt. I just find myself asking why he can play at this level for Stoke and Mark Hughes and the level he did 2 years ago for BR and LFC.

I am not that anti Clyne and as you can see I would have him in my first choice FBs and would not support trying to buy a replacement or anything but I do think he has been as I put in the first post OK but far from outstanding. I was maybe expecting more as I felt he was better at Ston but you could say the same about Lallana and maybe even Lovren (who has been better but has still not yet totally convinced me) so perhaps we need to show more patience when a new player comes from a lesser club to ours as they adapt to our style. I am sure from now on in under Klopp with Clyne things will on the whole be onwards and upwards as they say.”

I must admit I've not watched more than a handful of games involving Stoke this season. If he's doing well for them then good on him. It's a smaller club with lower expectations and that must be refreshing for him. It's clear to me that he needed a change of scenery by the end of his time with us, and I honestly think we've got an upgrade in Clyne. At the moment, he's Mr. Reliable with his consistent performances, but he does need to do more going forward and I'm sure he'll improve in that regard.
Sebastian1992
13-03-2016
Originally Posted by alancracker:
“I need to pay attention?? - sorry for having an opinion!!

You see I can recall us having really good RBs like Phil Neal, Rob Jones, Glen when he first came and even Steve Finnan so for me Clyne is not at that level. Do you think he is? - cos if you do I think you are looking at it through rose tinted specs. I also look at the RBs at other clubs and think many of them are a bit better but yes he is improving and apart from the first 15 seconds was great V MUFC so lets hope in time he can be the player we all want - the best RB in the PL cos that is what we need in every position.

I do think stick from fans can effect players careers - and that was the case with Glen for the last 2 and a half years at the club. His face did not fit any more - Borini was similar I felt (altho his form for Sunderland has not been as good as Glen for Stoke)After some dodgy games Johnson got constant moans from the crowd and lost some focus - the worst time was 24 months before he left to 12 months before he left when he was pretty poor - but I did think last season on the odd occasion when he was played he showed that he was returning to his true form and this has carried on as his form for Stoke has been excellent. When players wear the LFC shirt they should get support at all times.

It is not that relevant cos obviously Glen is not coming back and Clyne will be our RB for the foreseeable future but I just hope that we do not ditch players who could still do a job for us just cos they are getting in a bit - Lucas is one who comes to mind, if we sell Lucas I would be livid. We need experienced players as well as young players.”

Clyne is the most reliable right-back we've had since Finnan. By the way you left out Arbeloa from your list, who was very impressive in his short time at the club.

It's you using the rose-tinted specs dear. Clyne is Mr. Reliable.

He's like Joe Allen, just gets on and a lot of his good work goes unnoticed.

Johnson never maintained the sort of form that Clyne has repeatedly shown. Maybe he is down at Stoke, but as others have said, he's away from the spotlight now. He had to go, it was the right time for him. I'd have Flanagan and Clyne over him all day long. Even Gomez..
TheMunch
13-03-2016
Johnson was finished with us, it was the right time to go regardless of how he's doing now. Under Klopp he might have regained form and been great, maybe starting to like life again, but it'd have taken a lot of effort for him to win over the fans again. Clyne's been one of our most consistent players this season. I'm confident he'll improve his attacking game. His main disadvantage is his height but I wouldn't want to replace him with Johnson because of that.
alancracker
13-03-2016
Originally Posted by Sebastian1992:
“Clyne is the most reliable right-back we've had since Finnan. By the way you left out Arbeloa from your list, who was very impressive in his short time at the club.

It's you using the rose-tinted specs dear. Clyne is Mr. Reliable.

He's like Joe Allen, just gets on and a lot of his good work goes unnoticed.

Johnson never maintained the sort of form that Clyne has repeatedly shown. Maybe he is down at Stoke, but as others have said, he's away from the spotlight now. He had to go, it was the right time for him. I'd have Flanagan and Clyne over him all day long. Even Gomez..”

Yes A|rbeloa was good too and should have been in the list - perhaps Chris Lawler too he said showing his age - but his time at LFC was fairly short so he did not come to mind.

We will have to agree to differ on Clyne first season at LFC - I say good but room for improvement which I am hopeful we will see in time, you seem to have no reservations at all almost hailing him as the proverbial best thing since sliced bread. I do feel pretty confident that he will go on tho and get even better as his career progresses. Time will tell.

Re Glen I think Munch has a point in that it is certainly true that the level of anti feeling from the crowd would have made it hard for him to win them back so it may have been right for him to go but I think that is pretty sad in a way when the boo boys appear to have got their way.

Gomez better than Johnson? - come on!! He has played 4 games for us, gave away a pen at OT in one with the score at 1-0 and a vital goal at home in a 3-0 defeat to WH so again he has to improve but yes there were some promising signs in what little we have seen so far
Sebastian1992
14-03-2016
Originally Posted by alancracker:
“Yes A|rbeloa was good too and should have been in the list - perhaps Chris Lawler too he said showing his age - but his time at LFC was fairly short so he did not come to mind.”

My own position is as a left-back..I pay a lot of attention to the full-backs

Originally Posted by alancracker:
“
We will have to agree to differ on Clyne first season at LFC - I say good but room for improvement which I am hopeful we will see in time, you seem to have no reservations at all almost hailing him as the proverbial best thing since sliced bread. I do feel pretty confident that he will go on tho and get even better as his career progresses. Time will tell.”

I'm not hailing him as the best thing since sliced bread, but he's clearly the best right back we've had since Finnan, in the same way that I don't think we've had a decent left back since Aurelio..

Originally Posted by alancracker:
“Re Glen I think Munch has a point in that it is certainly true that the level of anti feeling from the crowd would have made it hard for him to win them back so it may have been right for him to go but I think that is pretty sad in a way when the boo boys appear to have got their way.”

His performances deserved that reaction, or are you conveniently forgetting that part?

Originally Posted by alancracker:
“Gomez better than Johnson? - come on!! He has played 4 games for us, gave away a pen at OT in one with the score at 1-0 and a vital goal at home in a 3-0 defeat to WH so again he has to improve but yes there were some promising signs in what little we have seen so far”

I didn't say he was better, I said I'd take him over Johnson. I stand by that. You can highlight things he's done wrong all you like, but he's 18, and he already looks good enough to play in the first team. That speaks volumes.

Look how many players rot in our reserves or under 23s or whatever the freckle they are now and never break through?
misawa97
14-03-2016
I think Clyne has been very consistent. I cant remember him having a real bad game.
I did think we would get more from him going forward but overall his been very good.
Orchideam
14-03-2016
I see Fellaini is not being charged by UEFA over trying to KO Can - thank goodness, we need him to play on Thursday!
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