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Liverpool Supporters Thread (Part 21)
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Sebastian1992
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by alancracker:
“Picking out and developing 2 parts of my earlier post (which was done in a bit of a hurry as I had to go out).

Imo what happened in the 26 years from 1989 till 2015 in relation to Duckenfield was worse than what he did on the day. On the day as part of his work he was given a job to do which was beyond his capabilities and it went disastrously wrong. As it went wrong he lied to try to make himself look less in the wrong - and that is the place where it all starts (altho the SWFC safety certificate and the FA complacency in choosing Hillsborough for the semi without properly looking into whether it was fit for purpose could also be brought up).

At that stage whilst critical of him I have some sympathy as who among us has not messed up at work - most of us tho when it happens has not resulted in the deaths of 96 people. Even lying to Kelly was a bit excusable as he was probably not thinking straight as he saw the enormity of the situation altho that lie had enormous effects as people believed that it was the 'LFC hooligans again' - and perhaps even I and other LFC fans did as at that stage on the evening of 15/4/89 we knew no better.

What is harder to forgive is the 26 years of silence which followed and the way he allowed his lie to be perpetuated - probably in the hope that he would get away with it. - and he did for many years so in a way it worked. If a day or two after the event he had come clean and said he had messed up and unreservedly apologised to the families then that would have been acceptable (to me anyway whether it would to everyone i am not so sure). That however is all hypothetical as he didn't and only did so last year when it was obvious that he was going to be 'found out' and exposed anyway. So the families could not accept the apology as being really genuine - and who can blame them for that.

Also altho I am not a Tory voter re the Thatcher government sentence (which I totally stand by) I would have to publically say that May and Cameron have been very good in their reactions over the last 5 years. Burnham and Rotheram were obviously the best 2 politicians in terms of advancing the cause but it has to be said Straw and Blair were dreadful in their 12 years in high office as they totally let the families down after making promises to them prior to their election in 1997. It does expose what many politicians are like - only interested in votes and in the Labour government years Blair saw no votes in justice for Hillsborough and so did not push it. Hypocrits!! Thank goodness for the courage of Andy Burnham in doing what he did at the 2009 service is all I can say.”

I will never ever have any sympathy for Duckenfield.

His absolute negligence was one of the major causes of this catastrophe.

His lies then compounded this.

My sympathy lies entirely with the families, friends, and with the fans that were slandered.
Ignazio
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by alancracker:
“ I would have to publically say that May and Cameron have been very good in their reactions over the last 5 years.”

David Cameron yesterday: I would like to pay tribute to the extraordinary courage of the Hillsborough campaigners in their long search for the truth."

David Cameron in 2011. when speaking about those same campaigners compared them to "a blind man, in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there."

I see nothing to admire in this man's hypocrisy.
Grouty
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by BleedRed:
“How long do you think he is going to be banned for?”

I think Toure got banned for about 6 months, so id guess he'll be out of the Euros, and won't start the new season.
Sebastian1992
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by Ignazio:
“David Cameron yesterday: I would like to pay tribute to the extraordinary courage of the Hillsborough campaigners in their long search for the truth."

David Cameron in 2011. when speaking about those same campaigners compared them to "a blind man, in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there."

I see nothing to admire in this man's hypocrisy.”

There's a shock..
Orchideam
27-04-2016
The home secretary has spoken of the '"extraordinary dignity and determination" of the Hillsborough families in their 27-year quest for justice and revealed that South Yorkshire Police could face manslaughter charges over the 1989 disaster.

Speaking at Prime Minister's Questions, she said the CPS must decide on any prosecutions and the offences under investigation include manslaughter, gross negligence, perjury and perverting course of justice.

She delivered the inquest jury's response to 14 key questions, including their finding that the 96 victims of the 1989 disaster were unlawfully killed.

In a moving statement on the families who have fought for justice for the 96, she said: "Quite simply, they have quite simply, never given up."
No one should have to fight year after year for justice.

– HOME SECRETARY THERESA MAY AT TODAY'S PMQS

ITN.
NiteOwl12
27-04-2016
I listen to the first hour of the Hillsborough Inquest debate in the House of Commons this afternoon which followed PMQs Theresa May was good, but Andy Burnham made an outstanding, angry and passionate speech, acknowledged by many who spoke after him, very well worth listening to.
Grouty
27-04-2016
Just Breaking, Sth Yorks Police Chief David Crompton Suspended.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36154201
RichmondBlue
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by NiteOwl12:
“I listen to the first hour of the Hillsborough Inquest debate in the House of Commons this afternoon which followed PMQs Theresa May was good, but Andy Burnham made an outstanding, angry and passionate speech, acknowledged by many who spoke after him, very well worth listening to.”

Yes, it was a truly fantastic speech by Andy Burnham. I just posted in the General Discussion Forum that it was one of those rare speeches that made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. I would really urge all Liverpool fans to hear it, indeed football fans everywhere should listen. He doesn't pull any punches. I also agree with you about Theresa May, she was very fair as well.
Now you've got the truth, but it remains to be seen whether you'll get justice..that's my worry.
Orchideam
27-04-2016
I have just listened to the full statements to the House from Teresa May and Andy Burnham, massive respect to them both for all they have done and will continue to do now.

For those who want to hear and watch all I used this - LINK
posiepebbles
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by Orchideam:
“I have just listened to the full statements to the House from Teresa May and Andy Burnham, massive respect to them both for all they have done and will continue to do now.

For those who want to hear and watch all I used this - LINK”

Thanks for the link. I agree, although I find myself a bit confused - I would never have believed I could put 'massive respect' and 'Theresa May' in the same sentence. Isn't it a wonderful world, though, when people can surprise you like that.

I just hope the families can finally get some sense of peace. Heaven knows they've earned it.

YNWA.
TheMunch
27-04-2016
A friend on FB shared a tweet by a Josh Halliday:

Quote:
“Today's @LivEchonews is a blockbuster - 37 pages on Hillsborough ... including great detail on IPCC investigation”

It includes a screenshot of the Echo, which you can find in this link here:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChDJQ0oW4AAOU5u.jpg


They found some things, including notebooks and floppy disks which required specialist equipment to examine. They had to use a 1980s computer to read the floppy disks. This was to read information found on 167 floppy disks, which had been extracted and stored on two DVDs.


Might not be the most interesting news for some but I thought it might be worth putting on here.
alancracker
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by Sebastian1992:
“I will never ever have any sympathy for Duckenfield.

His absolute negligence was one of the major causes of this catastrophe.

His lies then compounded this.

My sympathy lies entirely with the families, friends, and with the fans that were slandered.”

If my post sounds like I have sympathy for Duckenfield then that is giving a wrong impression and maybe I could have worded matters better. All I was trying to do was to point out that some kind of honesty from him in say the week after the event would have been the right thing to do. He did not do the right thing then or at any stage in the 27 years since - and some would say that even what he said at the inquests last year was only because he had to.

Like you and I hope all LFC fans my sympathy is entirely with the families and the others directly effected by it - but I do stand by my view that if Duckenfield is the only policeman who is taken to court for what happened then a lot of them will have got away with gross misconduct. Of course tracking down the other wrong doers is probably hard and so they may well get away with what they did.
Sebastian1992
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by alancracker:
“If my post sounds like I have sympathy for Duckenfield then that is giving a wrong impression and maybe I could have worded matters better. All I was trying to do was to point out that some kind of honesty from him in say the week after the event would have been the right thing to do. He did not do the right thing then or at any stage in the 27 years since - and some would say that even what he said at the inquests last year was only because he had to.

Like you and I hope all LFC fans my sympathy is entirely with the families and the others directly effected by it - but I do stand by my view that if Duckenfield is the only policeman who is taken to court for what happened then a lot of them will have got away with gross misconduct. Of course tracking down the other wrong doers is probably hard and so they may well get away with what they did.”

Well yeah, I'd want all those responsible to be brought to justice, it just seemed to me that you were implying sympathy for Duckenfield.

Onto other news, any know no anything about our new right-back?

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/04...in-u18s-squad/

I don't watch a lot of football outside of the first team picture, so my knowledge on these sorts of players is hugely lacking.
alancracker
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by NiteOwl12:
“I listen to the first hour of the Hillsborough Inquest debate in the House of Commons this afternoon which followed PMQs Theresa May was good, but Andy Burnham made an outstanding, angry and passionate speech, acknowledged by many who spoke after him, very well worth listening to.”

I have just listened to Andy Burnham's speech.

Quite simply one of the best speeches I have ever heard in the House of Commons - I would urge you all to try to hear it if you can as it puts over some of the issues which Hillsborough raises in a far more eloquent way than I ever could.
Orchideam
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by Sebastian1992:
“Well yeah, I'd want all those responsible to be brought to justice, it just seemed to me that you were implying sympathy for Duckenfield.

Onto other news, any know no anything about our new right-back?

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/04...in-u18s-squad/

I don't watch a lot of football outside of the first team picture, so my knowledge on these sorts of players is hugely lacking.”

Just done a Google on him, and it seems he could be another Stewart, at least, for us. City has young players leaving in droves just now, they have no chance of advancement there, and we beat off many other teams to get him, a born Liverpool fan, so slight advantage there! Already capped for England u16's so should be decent.
TheMunch
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by Orchideam:
“Just done a Google on him, and it seems he could be another Stewart, at least, for us. City has young players leaving in droves just now, they have no chance of advancement there, and we beat off many other teams to get him, a born Liverpool fan, so slight advantage there! Already capped for England u16's so should be decent.”

They have a good youth setup at City, good scouts and facilities. Could take advantage of their products due to them not being likely to make it into their first team.
owen10
27-04-2016
I hope will get the away goal tomorrow
TheSloth
28-04-2016
Originally Posted by Orchideam:
“Just done a Google on him, and it seems he could be another Stewart, at least, for us. City has young players leaving in droves just now, they have no chance of advancement there, and we beat off many other teams to get him, a born Liverpool fan, so slight advantage there! Already capped for England u16's so should be decent.”

Anyone who has an obvious desire to play for us, is wanted by our rivals and is an England youth player has my vote. He'll want to prove City wrong and can evolve with us, especially under Klopp.
TheMunch
28-04-2016
He's 16, Clyne is 25. He could be his future successor, he's at the right age to be an understudy, and soon to be cover, then replacement. Randall has been alright whenever he's been used, if he's at RB I'm not immediately worried. But he's nothing special, I don't think he'll ever compete with Clyne or put him under pressure, if Clyne left I wouldn't feel safe with him as our number one RB. Flanno is the natural cover right now, with his fitness record I don't think you can rely on him to play regularly.

Could be some clever bit of business a few years down the line.
Highest Grade
28-04-2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfZ1GCSXsp0

Many battles won. Now it's time to win the war.

Put those conscienceless, murderers and liars behind bars.

Burnham deserves major, major props. He's fought for the truth just like those brave families. I won't have Labour as a party besmirched over this issue. That speech was nothing short of heroic.
Draca_Noir
28-04-2016
Adrian Durham gave a brilliant speech as well.

http://talksport.com/football/listen...rdict-unlawful
TheSloth
28-04-2016
Just a heads up for those who do have BT Sport - their European coverage via the app is superb as you can go back to all major incidents (or just rewind) easily if you miss anything via their enhanced player (or just want to watch something again). It's a shame about Owen's voice though. I also use the goals alerts to pop over to the other matches and watch the goals as if real time which is also easy on the tablet. I also prefer my Hudl 2's display over my TV...

Can't wait!
Highest Grade
28-04-2016
Originally Posted by Draca_Noir:
“Adrian Durham gave a brilliant speech as well.

http://talksport.com/football/listen...rdict-unlawful”

Thanks for the link.

It just makes me so angry. How these killers can still sleep at night I'll never know.

Their lawyers are still at it is the worst of all, after all the lies had been exposed. They still couldn't take accountability for their murderous actions.

A class action lawsuit should be taken now. Taxpayers money spent on defending their lies makes me want to puke up. The Sun can go down with them too.
TheSloth
28-04-2016
Originally Posted by Highest Grade:
“Thanks for the link.

It just makes me so angry. How these killers can still sleep at night I'll never know.

Their lawyers are still at it is the worst of all, after all the lies had been exposed. They still couldn't take accountability for their murderous actions.

A class action lawsuit should be taken now. Taxpayers money spent on defending their lies makes me want to puke up. The Sun can go down with them too.”

Luckily these days with social media it is a lot easier to parade these liars in front of the masses rather than them hide behind yet more lies, cover ups and lawyers. If the will's there, bringing Murdoch's empire down by boycotting their wares will be a lot easier to do now than it was 27 years ago - especially with the majority of the rest of population now convinced of the gross injustices that have been proven to have taken place.
darkjedimaster
28-04-2016
Not surprised about this but Sakho has been suspended for 30 days

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36161272

That's his season over with then, hopefully he won't need to resort to this kind of activity again.
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