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Liverpool Supporters Thread (Part 21) |
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#8326 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 11,516
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Quote:
Is it still possible we could still get Mario Gotze even though we are not in Europe
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#8327 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Liverpool
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Luis Suárez had some words to say about Brendan Rodgers.
“Brendan Rodger is a very intelligent man. If the players at his next club listen to his words, they will become better players for sure.” ''If it was not for Brendan, then I know I would not be the same player that you see at Barcelona today. Such a big part of my education is down to him and his management.'' So, as has been said in the past, he did contribute to Suárez's development and helped make him a better player. We didn't finish 2nd solely because of this one amazing player. We saw it with other players, too. He improved Raheem Sterling, Jordan Henderson, even Stewart Downing was starting to do okay right before we sold him. |
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#8328 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 6,975
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And now Brendan's been appointed Celtic manager. I don't like Celtic so I don't want them to have too much success but I hope it goes well for him.
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#8329 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 11,516
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Quote:
Luis Suárez had some words to say about Brendan Rodgers.
“Brendan Rodger is a very intelligent man. If the players at his next club listen to his words, they will become better players for sure.” ''If it was not for Brendan, then I know I would not be the same player that you see at Barcelona today. Such a big part of my education is down to him and his management.'' So, as has been said in the past, he did contribute to Suárez's development and helped make him a better player. We didn't finish 2nd solely because of this one amazing player. We saw it with other players, too. He improved Raheem Sterling, Jordan Henderson, even Stewart Downing was starting to do okay right before we sold him. Terrific appointment for Celtic |
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#8330 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,743
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Quote:
And now Brendan's been appointed Celtic manager. I don't like Celtic so I don't want them to have too much success but I hope it goes well for him.
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#8331 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,570
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Quote:
So, as has been said in the past, he did contribute to Suárez's development and helped make him a better player. We didn't finish 2nd solely because of this one amazing player. We saw it with other players, too. He improved Raheem Sterling, Jordan Henderson, even Stewart Downing was starting to do okay right before we sold him. |
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#8332 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Under Your Bed
Posts: 5,494
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Quote:
He deserves credit for improving all those players you mention.Suarez seemed to catch fire as soon as he got that first goal for us, just after Kenny had taken charge mid season.Away from the disciplinary bans, he just got better and better.One factor about the players you've mentioned is that they are all attacking talent.Rodgers undoubtedly struggled with the defensive side of our game as have too many managers at LFC pretty much since we last won a league title.
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#8333 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 6,975
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Looks like we could be signing the goalkeeper Karius soon, and Leicester's young LB Ben Chillwell, who's been on loan at Huddersfield this season. The manager, David Wagner, is a good friend of Klopp's, and praises Chillwell highly.
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#8334 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Under Your Bed
Posts: 5,494
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Quote:
Looks like we could be signing the goalkeeper Karius soon, and Leicester's young LB Ben Chillwell, who's been on loan at Huddersfield this season. The manager, David Wagner, is a good friend of Klopp's, and praises Chillwell highly.
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#8335 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,935
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Quote:
Yes , he's a good manager - let himself down with his PR which got progressively worse towards the end. That simply compounded a season and a half of woe caused by a striker crisis, players feeling sorry for themselves and our perpetually generous defence (which he has indeed got to take some blame for). Defensively he's certainly not as naive as Martinez but it's not a strength. Good luck to the guy - he's got some great ideas and plays a superb brand of football. He'll have learned from the Liverpool experience as he's an astute man.
I would not say he let himself by his PR, he let himself down cos the performances on the field were generally very poor once Suarez left. I just cannot accept the analysis which says Suarez was bad before BR got involved and far better under BR which broadly speaking seems to be what many seem to say. For me Luis was awesome from day 1 - scoring as a sub V Stoke then remember the slalom through the MUFC defense in the Kuyt hat trick game. That remains one of my fav LS moments. That was in the first half season and then we go onto the next season - he started great as did the club with wins away at AFC among other good results but LS was forever getting bad press - I remember he was fouled at WBA for a pen and did not even go down but played on and still he was criticised when everyone said it was a clear pen. Scharner who was the WBA CB then went into the press having a go at him when he was the one who fouled him - but he was let do this as it seemed it was OK to have a go at Luis Suarez.. Similar happened at Stoke in the League Cup - he was fouled in the box but did not go down and still had a shot - no pen was awarded - and the commentator (Guy Mowbray) says 'Suarez there unusually stays on his feet' - in short there was an agenda against him fuelled in the media and then of course 15th Oct 2012 happened (the Evra incident for those who do not know) which multiplied the negativity ten fold. My views on this are well known but I will not go into them here. For 2 months whilst it was pending he was given abuse by fans for being a 'racist' and then was banned for the whole of January which is a key part of any season. No wonder when he returned he was off the pace but he still helped us reach 2 finals winning one as well as some other amazing displays - hat trick at Norwich being perhaps the best. The first season under BR was OK but I do accept that Suarez's best LFC season was of course the next one where we came 2nd and I think BR deserves credit for helping him stay largely out of trouble - after the second biting ban for the Ivanovic bite near the end of the season - which in turn helped him be more effective on the field. At that time I gave BR a lot of credit and it was right to do so but the last BR season after Luis left was a disaster. The previous season many including me praised his attacking mentality as some of the LFC displays were a total joy - best seen for the club since we last won the league. Where was this after Luis left? why did it go down so quickly? - maybe the transfer committee not using the LS money well and injuries to the likes of Sturridge was a big part of it but I still felt it was not unreasonable to expect some good displays given the squad we had The truth was that for a whole season in both the CL and the PL we were shocking. Surely if he was that much of a tactical genius we may have played to the standards of the previous season a few times at least. We played 8 times in Europe and were rubbish every time and in the PL pre Christmas things were embarrassingly poor. We did pick up and had a good run in terms of results but even then the displays if we were honest were almost all uninspired and not exciting football at all and then it all came apart at the end - defeats in key PL games V AFC and MUFC when we were totally outplayed, an FAC semi V AVFC who were far superior to us, SGs last game when we deservedly lost at home to CPFC culminating in the last game of the season when we lost 6-1 away at Stoke and were 5-0 down at half time. Nobody could say this was acceptable for LFC. Any praise of BR has to look at the big picture as I have tried to do here - but yes I like the guy - when he talks about Hillsborough and how it was a privilege to manage LFC he gets it so right and he did help the club to its best season for the last 20 years so he is not all bad and I wish him well at Celtic where i expect he will do well. I think it is a good choice of club for him. |
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#8336 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Under Your Bed
Posts: 5,494
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Quote:
This a difficult debate for me to get involved in - and maybe I shouldn't as I am one of those who is not quite as positive about BR as some forum members and I have no wish to have a row about it as it has gone now but ......
I would not say he let himself by his PR, he let himself down cos the performances on the field were generally very poor once Suarez left. I just cannot accept the analysis which says Suarez was bad before BR got involved and far better under BR which broadly speaking seems to be what many seem to say. For me Luis was awesome from day 1 - scoring as a sub V Stoke then remember the slalom through the MUFC defense in the Kuyt hat trick game. That remains one of my fav LS moments. That was in the first half season and then we go onto the next season - he started great as did the club with wins away at AFC among other good results but LS was forever getting bad press - I remember he was fouled at WBA for a pen and did not even go down but played on and still he was criticised when everyone said it was a clear pen. Scharner who was the WBA CB then went into the press having a go at him when he was the one who fouled him - but he was let do this as it seemed it was OK to have a go at Luis Suarez.. Similar happened at Stoke in the League Cup - he was fouled in the box but did not go down and still had a shot - no pen was awarded - and the commentator (Guy Mowbray) says 'Suarez there unusually stays on his feet' - in short there was an agenda against him fuelled in the media and then of course 15th Oct 2012 happened (the Evra incident for those who do not know) which multiplied the negativity ten fold. My views on this are well known but I will not go into them here. For 2 months whilst it was pending he was given abuse by fans for being a 'racist' and then was banned for the whole of January which is a key part of any season. No wonder when he returned he was off the pace but he still helped us reach 2 finals winning one as well as some other amazing displays - hat trick at Norwich being perhaps the best. The first season under BR was OK but I do accept that Suarez's best LFC season was of course the next one where we came 2nd and I think BR deserves credit for helping him stay largely out of trouble - after the second biting ban for the Ivanovic bite near the end of the season - which in turn helped him be more effective on the field. At that time I gave BR a lot of credit and it was right to do so but the last BR season after Luis left was a disaster. The previous season many including me praised his attacking mentality as some of the LFC displays were a total joy - best seen for the club since we last won the league. Where was this after Luis left? why did it go down so quickly? - maybe the transfer committee not using the LS money well and injuries to the likes of Sturridge was a big part of it but I still felt it was not unreasonable to expect some good displays given the squad we had The truth was that for a whole season in both the CL and the PL we were shocking. Surely if he was that much of a tactical genius we may have played to the standards of the previous season a few times at least. We played 8 times in Europe and were rubbish every time and in the PL pre Christmas things were embarrassingly poor. We did pick up and had a good run in terms of results but even then the displays if we were honest were almost all uninspired and not exciting football at all and then it all came apart at the end - defeats in key PL games V AFC and MUFC when we were totally outplayed, an FAC semi V AVFC who were far superior to us, SGs last game when we deservedly lost at home to CPFC culminating in the last game of the season when we lost 6-1 away at Stoke and were 5-0 down at half time. Nobody could say this was acceptable for LFC. Any praise of BR has to look at the big picture as I have tried to do here - but yes I like the guy - when he talks about Hillsborough and how it was a privilege to manage LFC he gets it so right and he did help the club to its best season for the last 20 years so he is not all bad and I wish him well at Celtic where i expect he will do well. I think it is a good choice of club for him. Maybe soon I'll ask some very specific questions so you can't avoid answering them to suit your own slant on things. A lot of the negatives you refer to were clearly as a result of a lot more factors than just BR which you always seen to acknowledge from time to time yet then ignore when it suits your argument. |
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#8337 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Under Your Bed
Posts: 5,494
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So, Alan...
Luis Suarez scored 15 league goals in 44 games before BR arrived yet 54 in 66 during BR's reign. That's a massive difference not just down to him behaving himself. Do you really think the transition from the Downing/Carroll direct football to BR's Coutinho/Sturridge pass/move alternative had nothing at all to do with this huge improvement? No-one said Suarez wasn't a good player pre-BR but Rodgers' system and team got the very best out of him. And to be honest, I didn't see any change in the way Suarez approached the game throughout his Liverpool career - 100% committed and not averse to the darker arts - you can ignore the latter if you want but surely you must be in a massive minority. Stop bringing up the Evra incident because frankly it's embarrassing - I'd rather focus of Suarez's undoubted genius which BR certainly exploited better than those before him. Even Luis Suarez himself has some great things to say about BR that conflict with what you say - he evidently had a big influence on the Uruguayan. As for 2014/2015 and beyond for BR, the performances were shocking for the most part when compared to the previous season. Again, few would argue with that. However, it was solely not down to the manager. Some players played with their chins on their chests because of the crushing disappointment of just missing out the previous season - Gerrard was clearly affected and BR was in a difficult position had he (rightly) dropped him due to his poor form. His legs and his head had gone sadly. The key thing, though, was our impotence in front of goal. I refuse to believe BR wanted Balotelli (his comments on the player before we signed him made that clear) and Mario HAD to succeed since Suarez had left. To compound that, Sturridge spent virtually the whole season injured and we had therefore to rely on our 3rd and 4th choice strikers often (one of which BR wanted rid of but refused to leave so wasn't replaced). We never looked like scoring and as the season wore on, the players stopped believing they would. It was not a motivational thing - the players just weren't good enough mentally and/or technically. This was no more evident than in Europe - in the CL games we should have won (Basel notably) we were simply impotent. The much criticised lineup away at Madrid conveniently skips over the fact the players left out were totally abject in the 0-3 defeat at Anfield. So do you really think our striker woes (last season and at the beginning of this) had no bearing on our dip in form? To lose Sturridge (again) and Ings was hardly BR's fault. Brendan Rodgers had his faults but you seem to want to give him as little credit as you can get away with and accentuate the negatives by telling half a story. Personally, I'm grateful for what he's done. We reverted to a much better style of football and he improved some players and got the best out others (Suarez and Sterling) thanks to his system. He promoted youth and gave us the best season we've witnessed for years. His downfall was partly self-inflicted and partly down to circumstance. Klopp has inherited some of the same issues but hopefully will have better luck and control in terms of incoming players. He's universally popular in the media (it seems) with only a small percentage of bitter rival fans and knee-jerking Liverpool fans casting major doubts. I was skeptical at first due to his final Dortmund season but what I can see on and off the pitch has convinced me he can take us forward. I wish BR all the luck in the world at Celtic - he's a great student of the game and will dust himself down from the Liverpool experience and learn from it. |
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#8338 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,324
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I take it we're all cheering on Palace this evening
Sadly the difference between Man U and us is Man U don't bottle it when it counts. 2-0 United
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#8339 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 6,975
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Jerome Sinclair has signed for Watford. It's sad the way agents get in the heads of young players. Oh well, if a kid tries to make demands of Liverpool then I don't want them anywhere near this club.
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#8340 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 30,269
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Do you think Brendan Rodgers is good manager when he has got world class players to work with, and what do you think of the players he has bought, as i cant think of player he has bought that has been a success
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#8341 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,743
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Quote:
Do you think Brendan Rodgers is good manager when he has got world class players to work with, and what do you think of the players he has bought, as i cant think of player he has bought that has been a success
what is the measuring stick for success? are you saying that Emre, milner, allen, firmino, coutinho, sako, toure etc etc are failures? |
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#8342 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,224
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Quote:
Do you think Brendan Rodgers is good manager when he has got world class players to work with, and what do you think of the players he has bought, as i cant think of player he has bought that has been a success
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#8343 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 675
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For me Rodgers gave us that great one season, for that I am thankful.
Overall though it was right he left, that 6-1 Stoke was the final straw. If the owners knew Klopp was interested they had to act. The good news for BR is that he will win plenty now at Celtic, if Neil Lennon can then Brendan Rodgers most definitely can. |
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#8344 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,570
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Quote:
I take it we're all cheering on Palace this evening
Sadly the difference between Man U and us is Man U don't bottle it when it counts. 2-0 UnitedThe ref has had a shocking first half, might as well present the cup to MUFC now and save us 45 more minutes when they'll undoubtedly get a fluke winner ![]() And their deluded fans call us 'Luckypool' LOL. |
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#8345 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Under Your Bed
Posts: 5,494
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Quote:
I take it we're all cheering on Palace this evening
Sadly the difference between Man U and us is Man U don't bottle it when it counts. 2-0 United |
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#8346 |
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,570
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Except they have bottled it in terms of CL qualification in two of the 3 seasons since Fergie left.This is also there first final of any for five years.Not forgetting we were clearly the better side against them in the EL
The ref has had a shocking first half, might as well present the cup to MUFC now and save us 45 more minutes when they'll undoubtedly get a fluke winner ![]() And their deluded fans call us 'Luckypool' LOL.
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#8347 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,324
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And there you have it.
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#8348 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 6,975
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Carragher:
Two cup final wins in four days for Everton. I laughed.
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#8349 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,570
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It being a win for Everton today has gone ove my head sorry
![]() Could you explain? |
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#8350 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 6,975
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Well I know on Wednesday many Everton fans were supporting Sevilla, some even changed their Facebook profile picture with a temporary "come on Sevilla!" thing.
As for today, some Everton fans seem to like Man United, or prefer them to Liverpool. I know one in particular who's even from Liverpool who classes himself as an Everton and Man United fan. It's a joke based on Everton fans wanting Sevilla and probably Man United to win their respective cup finals. |
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