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Liverpool Supporters Thread (Part 21)


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Old 29-05-2016, 00:25
alancracker
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Origi has all the tools to become a fantastic player, but you can't quite say he's on Sturridge's level just yet. Yes, he had that purple patch during the second half of the season and demonstrated his talent on some big occasions. But Danny has scored 53 goals in 92 appearances for us, which is a phenomenal stat. If Origi can replicate those kind of numbers (which I believe he has the potential to do), then we'll be looking at a truly wonderful player, but I refuse to compare the two based on half a season.

I think a lot of people still hugely underrate Sturridge. You just look at his statistics and they are, to put it bluntly, world class numbers. Sure, he's perhaps not as versatile as other strikers, but he's scored more goals for this club quicker than the likes of Suarez, Owen, Fowler, Dalglish, Rush and St.John.
Which all goes to show that stats can be a bit misleading.

I rate Sturridge i really do and I think if fit and we are playing just one striker in a game a lot of the time it will be him, but I think all the 6 you list are better strikers - no matter what the stats say.

i also have far more faith in Origi to deliver next season than many of you seem to have and going forward I see him as a key player for us. Time will tell i suppose.

Ings is about a one in three striker in the PL in teams of ratio (as an estimate based on his brief PL career) right now and Origi whilst improving all the time is getting to about that level hopefully. Sturridge is, however, averaging one goal every one and a half games for us - we need at least a striker who can hit a goal every other game as a replacement - then we'd have an excellent set of four forwards. Given a season or two, Origi and/or Ings may mature into viable replacements but I'm worried about next season specifically.
Again to me an over dependence on stats - they are useful but should not dictate things.

Lets identify 7 areas of the squad
1) Keepers
2) Central defenders
3) Full backs
4) Central midfield players
5) Wide players
6) Creative midfield players
7) Strikers

Of all those strikers is one of the areas I am least concerned about with the 3 main options we have in Origi, Ings and Sturridge with the option to play Firmino there too as we did sometimes this season. Even if Benteke leaves as seems likely I would not be that bothered if we did not buy a direct replacement

The biggest areas of concern for me are (3) and maybe (5) if we choose to play with a wide player. Re the FBs Moreno is the weakest link and needs replacing with a FB who can above all defend - I hope for Hector altho it seems we are after Chilwell who at 18 to me is a bit young to be given the shirt just yet.

Re the wide players if Klopp can get Markovic up to his Benfica form then (5) is not such a concern but Ibe's form has dipped greatly and whilst Ojo is a good prospect he is not worth a place in the team yet.

(1) was a concern but now with Karius signed lets hope it is solved but until we see him play for us who can tell

Just my current thoughts for what they are worth - as the summer progresses I reserve the right to change them
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Old 29-05-2016, 10:05
kobashi100
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Echo view on young players leaving the club

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport...tance-11396284
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Old 29-05-2016, 13:19
TheSloth
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A striker's goals per game ratio IS a statistic that should dictate things. It's a very clear measure of their key output unlike some statistics. Discounting it just to help an argument is very convenient. I've no doubt Origi and Ings will score plenty of goals for us but as yet we've no certainty they are ready to notch the ratio that sets the likes of Sturridge apart from others. There is no coincidence three of this season's top 4 all have strikers that scored 20+ league goals and the other had one who scored 15+.

I'd rather buy a striker to replace Benteke who has a proven goal scoring pedigree at this level than hope Origi and Ings are ready to fill the void if Sturridge breaks down. That's just sensible planning. If Origi and/or Ings prove themselves over next season to be a worthy successor then even better.
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Old 29-05-2016, 15:13
TheMunch
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Today is the 31st anniversary of the Heysel disaster. Sadly it's a disaster that often gets brought up for the wrong reasons and it doesn't get the respect it deserves. I haven't seen much coverage about it on social media.

39 Juventus fans went to a game and didn't return home. Was a dark day for English football, and football in general. Can't imagine what it'd have been like to have actually been there. It was before my time so I couldn't appreciate it in the way an older person could.

R.I.P. to the 39.
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Old 29-05-2016, 15:39
Dandem
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Yeah, many stats are misleading. The amount of goals a striker scores is not one of them. Sturridge in this moment is a far better striker than Origi, there's just no debating it.
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Old 29-05-2016, 15:56
taurus_67
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The nice thing about football, or maybe the frustrating thing, is there are just so many stats that be used and abused . Some statistics, courtesy of whoscored.com, from this seasons PL data that I've been playing with.

( a substitute appearance is counted as 0.5 of a game )

Harry Kane: 38 games, 4.2 shots per game for 25 goals = 6.38 shots per goal.
Jamie Vardy: 36 games, 3.2 shots/game for 24 goals = 4.8 shots/goal
Aguero: 29.5 games, 4 shots/game for 24 goals = 4.91 shots/goal
Mahrez: 36.5 games, 2.3 shots/game for 17 goals = 4.93 shots/goal

Liverpool players:
Sturridge: 12.5 games, 3.4 shots/game for 8 goals = 5.31 shots/goal
Firmino: 27 games, 2 shots/game for 10 goals = 5.5 shots/goal
Origi : 11.5 games, 1.5 shots/game for 5 goals = 3.45 shots/goal
Benteke: 21.5 games, 2.1 shots/game for 9 goals = 5.01 shots/goal.
Coutinho: 25 games, 4.3 shots/game ( highest in PL) for 8 goals = 13.43 shots/goal.

Stunningly, Origi is absolutely lethal and should be bumped to a Ł180K a week contract with a release clause of Ł80m!

However, if you like you stats a little simpler and just look at raw minutes per goal:

Aguero: 98.95 mins/goal
Vardy: 130 mins/goal
Kane: 134.8 mins/goal
Mahrez; 179.88 mins/goal

Sturridge: 122.5 mins/goal
Origi: 133.8 mins/goal
Firmino: 198mins/goal
Benteke: 169 mins/goal
Coutinho: 250 mins/goal.

Obviously, Sturridge does far better here, but Origi still does impressively well too. Now lets be clear, when you play so few games as Sturridge and Origi then their stats can be a bit skewed depending on the opposition they actually played against. It could be that Sturridge played against very good defences and Origi against weaker ones.

These stats were brought to you thanks to the relative boredom of the Monaco GP
( and for those who have any interest, and seeing as we've been linked to him, Sadio Mane's stats were better than Coutinho's; 7 shots/goal and 237 goals/min )
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Old 29-05-2016, 16:11
TheSloth
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Those stats show Origi does fine when he gets in a position to shoot. He's still learning that art and I know he's worked on his physique. His movement and runs did improve as the season went on so hopefully he is a quick learner - he's got the potential that's for sure. Like Defoe, Sturridge wastes no time getting shots away and has a short back lift.
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Old 29-05-2016, 18:17
Michael_Vaughan
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Today is the 31st anniversary of the Heysel disaster. Sadly it's a disaster that often gets brought up for the wrong reasons and it doesn't get the respect it deserves. I haven't seen much coverage about it on social media.

39 Juventus fans went to a game and didn't return home. Was a dark day for English football, and football in general. Can't imagine what it'd have been like to have actually been there. It was before my time so I couldn't appreciate it in the way an older person could.

R.I.P. to the 39.
R.I.P. to the 39.
Nobody should attend a football game and lose their life.
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Old 29-05-2016, 23:59
owen10
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We are now after Oxlade Chamberlain
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Old 30-05-2016, 00:13
Michael_Vaughan
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Mirror says Higuain wants to join us
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...ansfer-8077110
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Old 30-05-2016, 09:18
kobashi100
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We are now after Oxlade Chamberlain
Hope that is just plain paper talk
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Old 30-05-2016, 09:26
TheSloth
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We are now after Oxlade Chamberlain
Stop believing everything you read - especially on Sundays. If you did, you'd think we've after Dzeko too. I only take any notice of the rumours that are persistent or reported by many different sources.
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Old 30-05-2016, 13:56
Orchideam
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Liverpool fans should check out the name Paul Grange on Google, the more people who know about this vile creature the better.

For those that can't Google, click HERE for starters.
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Old 31-05-2016, 08:29
Assa2
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Don't think it's been mentioned on here... just saw we set a record this season, becoming the first club to beat 50 different teams away from home in the PL. Nice that we achieved something this season.
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Old 31-05-2016, 08:43
TheMunch
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So...who are people rooting for in the Euros? Or, who would you root for when your actual international team (England or otherwise) gets knocked out?

In the past I based my support on Liverpool, so it was Spain at one point when there wasn't much difference between Spain and Liverpool. I've always had a soft spot for the Dutch and Dutch things so sometimes I'd root for them.

For the last WC I supported Germany because I'm part German, and English like to think there's a rivalry between the two so it was an opportunity to troll. I even wore a German home shirt (I managed to get a good price), and as a result got called a "kraut" a couple times.

And now Liverpool is kinda becoming German so there's even more of a reason to root for them.

In the Copa America I think I'll root for Uruguay because of Suárez. I want to support Brazil because we're also becoming a bit Brazilian but I don't think we're represented enough in the Brazil squad. Coutinho's going but Firmino's been left out, so screw 'em.
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Old 31-05-2016, 09:16
misawa97
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So...who are people rooting for in the Euros? Or, who would you root for when your actual international team (England or otherwise) gets knocked out?

In the past I based my support on Liverpool, so it was Spain at one point when there wasn't much difference between Spain and Liverpool. I've always had a soft spot for the Dutch and Dutch things so sometimes I'd root for them.

For the last WC I supported Germany because I'm part German, and English like to think there's a rivalry between the two so it was an opportunity to troll. I even wore a German home shirt (I managed to get a good price), and as a result got called a "kraut" a couple times.

And now Liverpool is kinda becoming German so there's even more of a reason to root for them.

In the Copa America I think I'll root for Uruguay because of Suárez. I want to support Brazil because we're also becoming a bit Brazilian but I don't think we're represented enough in the Brazil squad. Coutinho's going but Firmino's been left out, so screw 'em.
Anyone who plays England.
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Old 31-05-2016, 09:36
snukr
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I'll be supporting England and Ukraine at the Euros, because of my ethnicity.
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Old 31-05-2016, 09:52
TheMunch
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Anyone who plays England.
Any particular reason?

You didn't say who you'd actually be rooting for.
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Old 31-05-2016, 10:14
misawa97
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Any particular reason?

You didn't say who you'd actually be rooting for.
I'm half Scottish and lucked out I guess choosing Scotland.

Like to see France win it, I like Deschamps.
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Old 31-05-2016, 10:25
Orchideam
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Being a bit of a British Mongrel, (part English, part Scottish, Irish down the line, but classed as Welsh by birth) I am normally rooting for any 'home' team to do well. Really can't justify rooting for any to win as they're just not to that standard sadly.

More than anything I want Wales to rock it, can't be doing with Roy, so actually hope he crashes and burns so we can get a good manager in. Though who I have no idea.
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Old 31-05-2016, 11:33
Assa2
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I am torn - I want to see Enlgand do well especailly as we've got a decent contingent going but I detest Hodgson and would hate to see him take the credit for a good showing. I think England will progress from the group easily enough but will crash and burn in the knock-out but it probably won't be enough to see the back of Roy. So then I'll be left supporting my ancestral home, Italy.
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Old 31-05-2016, 11:59
TheMunch
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I am torn - I want to see Enlgand do well especailly as we've got a decent contingent going but I detest Hodgson and would hate to see him take the credit for a good showing. I think England will progress from the group easily enough but will crash and burn in the knock-out but it probably won't be enough to see the back of Roy. So then I'll be left supporting my ancestral home, Italy.
Yeah Roy Hodgson makes it difficult to really get behind England. At international level you're meant to put club bias aside, and I do. When they're playing for England I don't care who they play for, including Man United and Everton, I can support players like Rooney and Ross Barkley when they put on an England shirt. But I just can't support Roy Hodgson. If England won the thing I'd celebrate but it'd be tainted a bit.
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Old 31-05-2016, 12:13
Xela M
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I am torn - I want to see Enlgand do well especailly as we've got a decent contingent going but I detest Hodgson and would hate to see him take the credit for a good showing. I think England will progress from the group easily enough but will crash and burn in the knock-out but it probably won't be enough to see the back of Roy. So then I'll be left supporting my ancestral home, Italy.
I always support Italy but unfortunately we are just as likely to crash and burn as England and who knows who will be in the competition longer *sigh*
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Old 31-05-2016, 12:23
TheMunch
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To give me even more of a reason to support Germany, Emre Can's made the final Euro squad.

He's got some serious tapping up to do while he's away.
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Old 31-05-2016, 12:29
misawa97
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To give me even more of a reason to support Germany, Emre Can's made the final Euro squad.

He's got some serious tapping up to do while he's away.
Marco Reus left out. WTF

Edit just read its fitness issues. Another major tournament Reus misses out on due to injury.
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