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Liverpool Supporters Thread (Part 21)


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Old 16-08-2016, 10:22
kobashi100
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Joe Hart seems to be on his way out of Man City

I think Klopp should snap him up, as Mignolet is still not good enough

And if we can get a quality keeper like Hart, we can qualify for the top four
If this was two months ago maybe but not after we have signed a GK.

That would be ridiculous and talk about damaging the new guy's career at Liverpool before he has even started.

I think Hart will probably stay till least January anyway as city will want to sign a GK first before they let Hart go.
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Old 16-08-2016, 10:57
alancracker
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Moreno? - to me it seems the one blind spot Klopp has - and it could end up costing him and LFC. I find it hard to believe that he cannot see how he costs us goals on a regular basis by bad positioning, reckless tackles and a tendency to see his main job as attacking (when as a LB it is defending). Defending well to me takes a brain and is far less instrinctive than attacking and Moreno seems to not think as clearly as he should when he is on a football field. Also the sale of other viable alternatives to him in Flanno and Smith puzzles me as well as the non pursuit of Hector who is the obvious upgrade. Haggling over a couple of million seems silly given the cash we have in our coffers but if reports are to be believed that ship has sailed now as he has signed a new contract at Koln

If we get to the end of the window and there is no alternative LB at all brought to the club I will be amazed but if that happens then we have to trust Klopp and get behind Moreno - even if most if us think he is not good enough
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Old 16-08-2016, 11:02
misawa97
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Sky Sports saying £23 mil bid from Palace for Benteke rejected.

£23 mil with £7m of add ons.
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Old 16-08-2016, 12:19
snukr
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There's no doubting we need to replace Moreno, but Garth Crooks is going way over the top here, suggesting we'll be relegated if we don't.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo..._campaign=1490
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Old 16-08-2016, 12:24
TheSloth
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Klopp has clearly remonstrated with Moreno on more than one occasion so I don't believe it's a blind spot - he just doesn't want to further unsettle the player without first getting ih a replacement. Exactly the same as what he did re Mignolet last season despite all the common opinion being that his days as Liverpool's Number 1 were numbered. He still bought a replacement in the summer so clearly shared that opinion. He'll do likewise with Moreno despite the public assertions to the contrary unless he feels Milner can do a sustained job there (or anyone else).

As for Benteke, plenty of aspiring clubs need a first/second striker with his goal ratio - Palace, West Ham, Everton (if Lukaku leaves), Southampton and even Chelsea and Arsenal. If the next two games don't go well for these clubs, I'm sure one or two of them will come in with an acceptable offer - we just need to hold our nerve. He'll do very well in the right team/system and still has age very much on his side.

Finally, the cups - we can now put out very strong second teams in the cups with a few youngsters thrown in for good measure. That's ideal. I also think Klopp will rotate quite a bit (let's hope his glasses don't fall off...)
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Old 16-08-2016, 12:30
TheSloth
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There's no doubting we need to replace Moreno, but Garth Crooks is going way over the top here, suggesting we'll be relegated if we don't.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo..._campaign=1490
Crooks' stock is obviously falling and he's resorting to the punditry equivalent of extremism to try and get noticed. Drama queen. We'll *easily keep above 17th

*unless we recruit Roy Hodgson
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Old 16-08-2016, 17:24
alancracker
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Not selling Benteke is also to me a puzzling decision given that he has yet to get on the pitch or even the subs bench since the summer (is he available for selection?) and we must be paying him a mega wage for that - again it would seem for the sake of a couple of million. Keeping an unhappy player which he would be if he never got a game is never a good idea. I think tho we will have to wait until the end of the window before drawing too many conclusions about both matters - I expect a new LB to be in and Benteke to be sold before then but we'll have to wait and see. Playing Milner LB would be a shocking option to take as again playing players not in their natural position is always bad imo

Overall tho I am almost totally happy with the transfer dealings so far - apart from selling Allen but that is not too bad given the number of other midfield options we have. New LB, Mario out and Benteke sold too and it will be almost perfect - with an almost zero net spend too and that for me is not a reason to criticise if the squad is far stronger for virtually no outway which it would be - so come back to me in 2 weeks and we will be able to evaluate it even better
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Old 16-08-2016, 17:54
TheMunch
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Simon Hughes' new book, Ring of Fire, contains Torres' side of the story when he left for Chelsea.

Torres’s sense of frustration was sharpened when Liverpool sold Javier Mascherano to Barcelona despite being assured only a month before that in order for a takeover to be completed, the club would need to keep its best players. To establish that, he had met with Christian Purslow on holiday in the aftermath of the World Cup held in South Africa.

When New England Sports Ventures (later to become Fenway Sports Group) acquired Liverpool in October in a purchase that Hicks would infamously label “an epic swindle,” it was soon announced that Liverpool’s structure would change, with a sporting director primarily dealing with the recruitment and sale of players. Damien Comolli was hired to the role, having achieved varied success at Tottenham Hotspur.

Torres recalls a meeting in the November: “Comolli told me that the new owners [FSG) had an idea of how to spend their investment. They wanted to bring in young players, to build something new. I was thinking to myself: this takes time to work. It takes two, three, four, maybe even 10 years. I didn’t have that time. I was 27 years old. I did not have time to wait. I wanted to win. Here we are five years later and they are still trying to build — around the same position in the league as when I left.”

Torres says he left neither meeting with Purslow nor Comolli believing he was wanted at Liverpool for reasons “only related to football”.

It was the fall-out from the consultation with Kenny Dalglish that proved to be defining for Torres, however. Dalglish had initially been appointed on a temporary basis following the sacking of Roy Hodgson.

Though Torres admits of his unhappiness and that the possibility of leaving was discussed during the constructive discussion that did not include his agent or any other representatives speaking on his behalf, this conversation only happened after Liverpool had started negotiating privately with Chelsea.

This part in particular explains it:

Torres’s future was delicately balanced when it was then reported that he had “verbally requested” to leave Liverpool. He determined this information had come from a deliberate leak and that his position as a Liverpool player was untenable because of broken trust.

“It changed the view of everybody, including myself,” he said. “It was presented as if I was a traitor. It was not like this in the discussion(s). Liverpool could not admit they were doing something wrong with the whole team. They had to find a guilty one.”
http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2016/0...-anfield-exit/


So he was pretty much forced out, the club wanted him to go and he was made to feel rather unwanted. I also get the feeling he didn't want to be a part of FSG's long-term project because he was at an age where he felt he wanted to win things now, and was capable of doing so.
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Old 16-08-2016, 23:45
kobashi100
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Simon Hughes' new book, Ring of Fire, contains Torres' side of the story when he left for Chelsea.




This part in particular explains it:


http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2016/0...-anfield-exit/


So he was pretty much forced out, the club wanted him to go and he was made to feel rather unwanted. I also get the feeling he didn't want to be a part of FSG's long-term project because he was at an age where he felt he wanted to win things now, and was capable of doing so.
Javier was never gonna turn down barca and the club could never stop him leaving.

As for Torres. I think he is probably right and it was Liverpool who accepted the offer and he then started negotiations. There was no way the club was or should have turned down £50m. While the club shouldn't have made out they didnt wanna sell, think we can all agree it was the right decision to sell

He was already on the slide before he went Chelsea.

Sky Sports saying £23 mil bid from Palace for Benteke rejected.

£23 mil with £7m of add ons.
Add ons relied on palace qualifying for the champions league. Palace are straight up dreaming with them negotiations
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Old 16-08-2016, 23:51
John_Clunes
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Torres deserved to play at a bigger club than Liverpool, who were probably only a stepping stone into the Premier League for him. It's a shame he didn't do well at Chelsea but a bigger shame that FSG didn't invest money to bring you guys back to close to what you were for a brief time in the 70s and 80s, good at football.
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Old 17-08-2016, 06:39
TheSloth
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Torres deserved to play at a bigger club than Liverpool, who were probably only a stepping stone into the Premier League for him. It's a shame he didn't do well at Chelsea but a bigger shame that FSG didn't invest money to bring you guys back to close to what you were for a brief time in the 70s and 80s, good at football.
15 to 20 years is brief? You need to go to B&Q and get a shovel for your shallow digs.
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Old 17-08-2016, 10:36
Sattrega
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Add ons relied on palace qualifying for the champions league. Palace are straight up dreaming with them negotiations
As I've said in the Palace thread, I'm actually embarrassed about the clauses we put in the proposed deal. What our chairman/owners are thinking is beyond me, they all appear to have taken some kind of drug that causes delusions of grandeur.
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Old 17-08-2016, 11:10
TheMunch
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As I've said in the Palace thread, I'm actually embarrassed about the clauses we put in the proposed deal. What our chairman/owners are thinking is beyond me, they all appear to have taken some kind of drug that causes delusions of grandeur.
£23m rising to around £30m wouldn't be so bad if the addons were serious. I've said recently that I'd be fine with £25m then up to around £30m with addons. What Palace did just looks like something you'd do on Football Manager to get the deal over the line, or as a joke.
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Old 17-08-2016, 16:51
taurus_67
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Mane looks a big doubt for the weekend after suffering a shoulder injury during training; reportedly left Melwood in a sling. Fingers crossed it's not a dislocation.
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Old 17-08-2016, 17:28
Sick Bullet
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I can't believe the bad luck we have with injuries.
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Old 17-08-2016, 18:49
TheSloth
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Mane looks a big doubt for the weekend after suffering a shoulder injury during training; reportedly left Melwood in a sling. Fingers crossed it's not a dislocation.
Don't panic folks - he's been spotted driving so it can't be that bad...
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Old 17-08-2016, 18:58
mikeyddd
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I would like to see Rene Maulensteen brought in.

Continuation of: Liverpool Supporters Thread (Part 20)
Don't panic folks - he's been spotted driving so it can't be that bad...
Get Ashley Williams to have a word with him
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Old 17-08-2016, 19:31
Grouty
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Mane doing a Sturridge
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Old 17-08-2016, 19:48
Dandem
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Mane doing a Sturridge
Sturridge has never suffered a shoulder injury.
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Old 17-08-2016, 20:00
TheMunch
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Not watching it, so can't confirm, but apparently Steven Caulker is playing up front for QPR.

We've converted him.


Also, Mané only has a little muscle injury. He's a doubt for the weekend but should be back to beat Spurs.

I seen something earlier, "Super Mané". It must've gone to his head in training. Now I'm thinking of the Scrubs opening credits...
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Old 17-08-2016, 22:48
Michael_Vaughan
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Sturridge has never suffered a shoulder injury.
Yet, just give it time!!
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Old 17-08-2016, 23:02
misawa97
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£23m rising to around £30m wouldn't be so bad if the addons were serious. I've said recently that I'd be fine with £25m then up to around £30m with addons. What Palace did just looks like something you'd do on Football Manager to get the deal over the line, or as a joke.
The thing is what add ons could they include which are realistic. Palace should just offer £27 mil cash
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Old 17-08-2016, 23:19
Dandem
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Yet, just give it time!!
Sturridge will never injure his shoulders, scoring all those goals and doing that dance every time has probably made his delts invincible.
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Old 17-08-2016, 23:51
taurus_67
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The thing is what add ons could they include which are realistic. Palace should just offer £27 mil cash
I'd accept £27m, but I'm not the guy losing £5m. I'd suggest the add-ons would be appearances and/or goals scored.
An example: £24m initial fee ; + £2m for 15 goals ; + a further £2m after 30 goals; + £2m for 40 appearances; + 20% of any future sale if he doesn't reach the numbers to trigger all the payments.


Good news about Mane's injury not being as bad as first feared; shoulder dislocations can be a recurring problem. If Mane needs a rest at the weekend, I guess that gives Sturridge ( or Origi ) a way back into the starting eleven.
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Old 18-08-2016, 10:39
alancracker
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The thing is many of us may be saying 'oh no Mane may not play we will be awful as he is our best player' or something similar, but if we say that we have not thought it through. The truth is that in Klopp's LFC we have no indispensable players and with the strength in depth certainly as far as forwards go we will always be able to cope. Full backs is more of a worry as is keeper with Karius out but again we do have viable replacements.

On Sunday we scored 4 at Arsenal and did not have Sturridge, Can, Milner, Origi or Gruic playing all of who imo are top players (+ Lucas, Ings, Ojo too who have all shown that they can all do a job for us). Yes it is a bit disappointing that Mane is probably out but if Origi plays instead I think we will be OK - panic not!!
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