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Old 08-06-2015, 22:50
lightspeed2398
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Looks like Qualcomm are selling the 40MHz of 1400MHz spectrum.

http://www.wireless-mag.com/News/351...r-auction.aspx
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Old 08-06-2015, 23:01
enapace
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As soon as Ofcom approved the change in spectrum licence it was obvious Qualcomm were going to sell this. I suppose they could of done some of sort of wholesale agreement for it but it wasn't to lately.
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Old 08-06-2015, 23:22
Denco1
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Interesting, but who is going to want to but it other than Vodafone, considering the others would probably become in breach of the 210MHz limit.

It would be great for Vodafone though for increasing capacity, I have found that 2x10MHz gets average download speeds of 10-20mbps in busy areas with uplink being around 10mbps. 2600MHz is good but long term they could do with something to match EE's and Three's mid and high band spectrum.

One problem with 800MHz is that my phone seems to be constantly switching between 2 or 3 masts with a similar signal quality, but when using 1800MHz it seems to stick to one mast much better, so hopefully 1400MHz would result in a similar scenario.
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Old 08-06-2015, 23:30
enapace
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Interesting, but who is going to want to but it other than Vodafone, considering the others would probably become in breach of the 210MHz limit.

It would be great for Vodafone though for increasing capacity, I have found that 2x10MHz gets average download speeds of 10-20mbps in busy areas with uplink being around 10mbps. 2600MHz is good but long term they could do with something to match EE's and Three's mid and high band spectrum.

One problem with 800MHz is that my phone seems to be constantly switching between 2 or 3 masts with a similar signal quality, but when using 1800MHz it seems to stick to one mast much better, so hopefully 1400MHz would result in a similar scenario.
Err even a combined O2/3 wouldn't breach the 210MHz limit and that is going to be lifted with the new spectrum auctions anyway. Honestly I think it would be best for O2 and 3 to get the 1400MHz. But can see Vodafone wanting is as it would help them in areas where they won't use 2600MHz in terms of capacity.
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Old 08-06-2015, 23:40
Denco1
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Err even a combined O2/3 wouldn't breach the 210MHz limit and that is going to be lifted with the new spectrum auctions anyway. Honestly I think it would be best for O2 and 3 to get the 1400MHz. But can see Vodafone wanting is as it would help them in areas where they won't use 2600MHz in terms of capacity.
They would be at it though wouldn't they if they choose to swap 2x5MHz of 800MHz for 2x20MHz of 2600MHz which is likely to happen if the merger goes ahead.

Of course Three or O2 could buy this 1400MHz before the merger but I see no reason for them to do so.
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Old 08-06-2015, 23:44
enapace
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They would be at it though wouldn't they if they choose to swap 2x5MHz of 800MHz for 2x20MHz of 2600MHz which is likely to happen if the merger goes ahead.

Of course Three or O2 could buy this 1400MHz before the merger but I see no reason for them to do so.
Think you mean 2x5MHz of 800MHz for 2x15MHz of 2600MHz [BT own an additional 20MHz TDD Spectrum in that band as well]. Pretty sure they will try and keep 2x15MHz and buy some 2300MHz TDD spectrum instead of getting the 2600MHz would be more beneficial. Specially as O2 and 3 are using 800MHz as there main spectrum.
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Old 08-06-2015, 23:59
Denco1
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Think you mean 2x5MHz of 800MHz for 2x15MHz of 2600MHz [BT own an additional 20MHz TDD Spectrum in that band as well]. Pretty sure they will try and keep 2x15MHz and buy some 2300MHz TDD spectrum instead of getting the 2600MHz would be more beneficial. Specially as O2 and 3 are using 800MHz as there main spectrum.
Although this hasn't been verified, some people quite close to the BTEE deal have hinted that in BT's submission they are suggesting that having found EE's 2x5MHz of 800 somewhat so so performance wise, they are suggesting they acquire Three's holding so eventually the three remaining operators will all have 2x10 at 800. BT would then sell their existing 2600 plus another 5 MHz from EE which could be acquired by 3O2 who would likely need it. This would leave all the networks within the existing low frequency and overall spectrum caps. Three and EE's existing 800 spectrum sits alongside each other separate from O2's holding so might be better used by BTEE than 3O2 (who would require carrier aggregation to use it together).

I'm just going off this quote from japaul. Yes O2 and Three are using 800MHz as primary spectrum but there holdings are not contiguous so carrier aggregation would need to be used, a bit pointless I reckon for an extra 5MHz.

I had forgotten Ofcom were planning to raise the limit to 310MHz and this would include this spectrum so I guess my original point is no longer valid.
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Old 09-06-2015, 00:27
enapace
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I'm just going off this quote from japaul. Yes O2 and Three are using 800MHz as primary spectrum but there holdings are not contiguous so carrier aggregation would need to be used, a bit pointless I reckon for an extra 5MHz.

I had forgotten Ofcom were planning to raise the limit to 310MHz and this would include this spectrum so I guess my original point is no longer valid.
They are already going to deploy CA eventually to use 800MHz and 1800MHz so it wouldn't be to much harder to CA the extra 800MHz at that time.

Plus I would say that 2x20MHz of 2600MHz is likely worth less than 2x5MHz of 800MHz anyway. So BTEE would have to include cash in that deal anyway. When they can just pick up 2300MHz to supplement for high band spectrum. And refarm 2x5MHz of 2100MHz probably as well don't think O2/3 would have much to gain from that deal. BT/EE would be gaining more.
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Old 09-06-2015, 00:41
Denco1
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They are already going to deploy CA eventually to use 800MHz and 1800MHz so it wouldn't be to much harder to CA the extra 800MHz at that time.

Plus I would say that 2x20MHz of 2600MHz is likely worth less than 2x5MHz of 800MHz anyway. So BTEE would have to include cash in that deal anyway. When they can just pick up 2300MHz to supplement for high band spectrum. And refarm 2x5MHz of 2100MHz probably as well don't think O2/3 would have much to gain from that deal. BT/EE would be gaining more.
The plan was to CA to use the 800MHz and 1800MHz, but if they decide to primarily use CTIL 800MHz then I don't think they could really CA that with Three 1800MHz.
It wouldn't be much harder to CA an extra 5MHz but as most devices can only aggregate 2 or 4 slices of 10MHz I don't see what Three would gain from doing it, and again if it would even be possible to do it from CTIL masts.

2x5MHz of 800MHz is probably worth more than 2x20MHz of 2600MHz but swapping 800MHz to make everyone equal will look good for the regulators keeping low band spectrum at 27.5MHz and FDD spectrum is probably worth more than TDD especially as most phones sold in the UK support band 20 and only a handful band 40.
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Old 09-06-2015, 10:57
lightspeed2398
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Do any phones actually support the band? I mean if Qualcomm are aware of its eventual use I imagine that they'll integrate it as an option into their modems but there's no point buying something that no one can use.
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Old 09-06-2015, 16:51
japaul
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I'm just going off this quote from japaul. Yes O2 and Three are using 800MHz as primary spectrum but there holdings are not contiguous so carrier aggregation would need to be used, a bit pointless I reckon for an extra 5MHz.

I had forgotten Ofcom were planning to raise the limit to 310MHz and this would include this spectrum so I guess my original point is no longer valid.
Yep it was never part of the 210MHz cap but remember the 310MHz cap and its inclusion was only Ofcom's thinking which needed further consultation. That was before the acquisitions had been announced so they will need to take notice of what the CMA/EC decide and make a further proposals for the 2300/3400 auction.


Do any phones actually support the band? I mean if Qualcomm are aware of its eventual use I imagine that they'll integrate it as an option into their modems but there's no point buying something that no one can use.
It's rather new so it'll take some time to appear on phones. However they do have to look to the future and they will probably only get one chance to buy it.
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Old 19-06-2015, 21:23
japaul
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This spectrum was part of the auction in Germany and I'm quite surprised at the amount the networks were willing to pay for it (€330m).

http://www.lightreading.com/mobile/s..._mc=RSS_LR_EDT

It won't be worth as much in the UK but given Qualcomm only paid ~£8m, it looks like doing nothing and just sitting on it for a few years will yield a nice profit for them.
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Old 19-06-2015, 21:25
lightspeed2398
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This spectrum was part of the auction in Germany and I'm quite surprised at the amount the networks were willing to pay for it (€330m).

http://www.lightreading.com/mobile/spectrum/vodafone-big-spender-in-$58b-german-auction/d/d-id/716429?_mc=RSS_LR_EDT

It won't be worth as much in the UK but given Qualcomm only paid ~£8m, it looks like doing nothing and just sitting on it for a few years will yield a nice profit for them.
That's a lot of fairly low band spectrum being sold! I wonder if it's a sign of what Vodafone are planning in the UK? Our 700Mhz auction is still a long way off isn't it?
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Old 19-06-2015, 21:38
japaul
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They can auction 700 quite soon if they want to but actually being able to use it in the UK is much further off I'm afraid (not before 2020, probably later).

A lot of the spectrum in Germany that was in existing use expired so the auction included this.

As for 1.4GHz maybe Ofcom should have considered charging Qualcomm to change the terms of use and waited until the outcome of the German auction to get an idea as to the likely market value especially as Qualcomm have done nothing with it. It looks like Ofcom have been outmanoeuvred again!
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Old 19-06-2015, 21:40
Zebb
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This spectrum was part of the auction in Germany and I'm quite surprised at the amount the networks were willing to pay for it (€330m).

http://www.lightreading.com/mobile/s..._mc=RSS_LR_EDT

It won't be worth as much in the UK but given Qualcomm only paid ~£8m, it looks like doing nothing and just sitting on it for a few years will yield a nice profit for them.
Won't make much of a dent in their £640m fine to Chinese authorities to end a 14 month anti-trust investigation.
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Old 14-08-2015, 08:41
japaul
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No formal announcement yet but it looks like this spectrum has been bought by Three and Vodafone.

Nice little earner for Qualcomm...
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Old 14-08-2015, 09:40
lightspeed2398
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I presume 20MHz each then. So what will they be able to do with now it's been bought? They'll use it to add capacity download wise I presume, once it's been built into phones?
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Old 14-08-2015, 09:43
enapace
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No formal announcement yet but it looks like this spectrum has been bought by Three and Vodafone.

Nice little earner for Qualcomm...
Makes sense EE have enough mid band spectrum and O2 weren't going buy it with the merger on the cards. Should supplement Three's 1800MHz nicely they will be getting the last bit of spectrum from EE soon as well.
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Old 14-08-2015, 10:04
Denco1
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Not sure whether to be happy or not.
The cynic in me tells me that Vodafone will sit on the spectrum and do relatively little like with the 3G spectrum and also the TDD LTE spectrum.
And if Three won't even rollout out 1800MHz properly why would they bother with 1500MHz?
In addition do we have any 1500MHz antennas installed in the UK or will it require even more new equipment? I've seen a CTIL site using 3 antennas per 5 sectors with 12 feeders, adding 1500MHz to that could be chaos but at least Three and Vodafone may share the RAN assuming O3 is allowed to increase economies of scale.
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Old 14-08-2015, 14:26
japaul
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It's a few years off being used anyway because there's no handset support at the moment (although that will come) and it isn't really needed at the moment. It's more about having capacity in the future when it will be needed.
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Old 03-01-2016, 12:34
lightspeed2398
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It's a few years off being used anyway because there's no handset support at the moment (although that will come) and it isn't really needed at the moment. It's more about having capacity in the future when it will be needed.
Sorry for bringing this old thread up again all, I was just thinking about how the Snapdragon 820 will have LTE-U support but does anyone know if it's going to have band 32 support for this? Or if not does anyone know when we'll start to see it? 20MHz each way seems like a lot of spectrum to miss out on if getting a new phone.
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